Bad Guy Ty park/ ty lizards FL

[kerrek]

Oops forgot to put "answers" after vague

 

[Fangthane]

her refusal to compromise

Unless compromise amounts to one side relinquishing any real sense of control over the outcome, I just don't see it. Ty dictated the terms at every turn, and in the process quite probably enjoyed the feeling of power that comes from telling the little guy just how it's going to be. By taking the stance that she's simply going to get whatever it is he decides to send her - details be damned - I think it's clear that any refusal to compromise would much more appropriately be laid at Ty Park's feet. I haven't read anything to suggest that, had her reasonable questions been answered and she found those answers satisfactory, she wouldn't have accepted tegu Y.

And I am still waiting for you to tell me why it is ok for Ty to not tell the OP what he was sending and where it came from.

Because...reasons? That's my best guess.

 

[Casey Hulse]

Also kiddies when conducting a transaction be upfront and honest with the person you are conducting it with. If they ask you a question give them an answer don't string them along or give vague. Otherwise they might call you/the situation scammy or shady (among others) because at that point, you can expect the relationship to further deteriorate.

You see that works both ways. And I am still waiting for you to tell me why it is ok for Ty to not tell the OP what he was sending and where it came from.

It is true, you can catch more flies with sugar, so maybe Michelle should not have called him scammy, or shady. How would you react if someone implied that you were one of those terms?

I never said it was "OK", I just feel like Michelle was acting a bit naive she had asked what he was sending, he said it will be a tegu just like the one in the picture, then she continued with many questions which largely went unanswered.

 

[zovick]

It is true, you can catch more flies with sugar, so maybe Michelle should not have called him scammy, or shady. How would you react if someone implied that you were one of those terms?

I never said it was "OK", I just feel like Michelle was acting a bit naive she had asked what he was sending, he said it will be a tegu just like the one in the picture, then she continued with many questions which largely went unanswered.

The questions were legitimate, Casey, because at the time they were asked, he had only told her he would get one from another breeder and all she wanted was to know its background and see a photo or two. It is totally acceptable to want that when he is substituting one animal for the expected prize. He refused to provide her any info, apparently because he felt it was beneath him to do so and/or he already knew he couldn't get one from anyone else. That is when things began taking a bad turn.

Then, AFTER THE FACT, he says he was going to send her a tegu he produced instead but didn't do so because he got upset with her. I don't even believe that he ever intended to send that one he says he later auctioned off. It's quite easy to cover one's butt by saying so afterwards, though. Had he been upfront and told her that, she would probably have accepted it and this whole mess could have been avoided.

 

[tlmoon]

The questions were legitimate, Casey, because at the time they were asked, he had only told her he would get one from another breeder and all she wanted was to know its background and see a photo or two. It is totally acceptable to want that when he is substituting one animal for the expected prize. He refused to provide her any info, apparently because he felt it was beneath him to do so and/or he already knew he couldn't get one from anyone else. That is when things began taking a bad turn.

Then, AFTER THE FACT, he says he was going to send her a tegu he produced instead but didn't do so because he got upset with her. I don't even believe that he ever intended to send that one he says he later auctioned off. It's quite easy to cover one's butt by saying so afterwards, though. Had he been upfront and told her that, she would probably have accepted it and this whole mess could have been avoided.

I completely agree, and to quote Ty's own words from post #77: “ At this point she started to inundate me with questions which I did not want to answer knowing what kind of person she was and that anything I say might be twisted by her to her advantage, so my answer to her was none or very short. I decided also that I would send her the tegu that I produced (T+ albino) since her contention was that she wanted one that I produced and not by someone else, but I didn't communicate that with her to the end because I wanted to see what kind of person she was and she was greedy to the end." (I added the underlines)

Ty created this mess. He could have fixed this by communicating with Michelle but chose not to because he didn't like her questions.

I believe her questions were appropriate. Ty thought they were indicative of greed, or ingratitude. I don't agree with that, but even if that were true, it doesn't justify Ty's behavior and choices here.

 

[kerrek]

It is true, you can catch more flies with sugar, so maybe Michelle should not have called him scammy, or shady. How would you react if someone implied that you were one of those terms?

I never said it was "OK", I just feel like Michelle was acting a bit naive she had asked what he was sending, he said it will be a tegu just like the one in the picture, then she continued with many questions which largely went unanswered.

I'd try to look at the situation and see why they were calling me scammy and shady and then figure out if I did something wrong or if they were just "that customer". What I wouldn't do is tell them I'm shipping you something just deal with it. I'd tell them what it was, where it came from and send them a picture so as to alleviate their fears and to cover myself. I wouldn't do what he did which was act arrogant and try to shove something down someone's throat because they dared to question him.

She entered a raffle expecting to get a TY Park blue albino Tegu when he didn't produce that animal it was his responsibility to come up with a suitable replacement that she was happy with. (within reason) It was not her responsibility to take whatever he offered sight unseen. My god your acting like she called him a thief right off the bat. All she did was ask where is the replacement tegu coming from, and when he wouldn't tell her she said it was kind of shady. You agree that it's not "OK" for him to send her an animal without disclosing its origins. So what would you call someone that won't tell you where an animal originated from and just wanted you to take it after you were promised something else at the start? I'd call that shady.

As to her being naïve and asking too many questions. What if he got the replacement tegu from a breeder or a source that she wanted no part of? You realize there are breeders and dealers out there that some people want no part of doing business with right? I'd guess you yourself have people on your do not sell and do not buy from list I know I do.

 

[Sugarhedgie]

It is true, you can catch more flies with sugar, so maybe Michelle should not have called him scammy, or shady. How would you react if someone implied that you were one of those terms?

I never said it was "OK", I just feel like Michelle was acting a bit naive she had asked what he was sending, he said it will be a tegu just like the one in the picture, then she continued with many questions which largely went unanswered.

I did NOT call him shady or scammy. When he was trying to change the terms I said if I knew that this (referring to the raffle) was going to be shady or scammy I prob wouldn't have even bought the tickets.

I guess I was naive because I thought ty would have sent me the proze I won. But I was wrong


His mating it would be one like in the raffle photo who the was a picture of a t- albino blue ?? He had already said he did not produce any t- and he couldn't even get one from his "breeder friend" so where was it going to come from????


The first post where he enticed his followers was for.n albino blue (t-)
To be produced by him
To be delivered in July
And if he didn't produce any he would give the winner 3000 out of his own pocket!!

I think it's pair to say that the people who entered the raffle thought that was what the raffle was for

He didn't produce any albino blues (t-)
He didn't deliver in July and
He didn't give the $3,000

Then the next day he posts "this raffle is for 2 baby albinos to
Be delivered in july (In this post he did NOT specify
what type of albino) and we know there are 2 types

Ok so he produced albinos (the t+ albinos)

Wouldn't that then be my prize?
Like the other 2 winners and the winner of the auction got.

Ty clearly stated in post # 77 here
I decided also that I would send her the tegu that I produced (T+ albino) since her contention was that she wanted one that I produced and not by someone else, but I didn't communicate that with her to the end because I wanted to see what kind of person she was and she was greedy to the end

That is not a very good decision because if he communicated that to me I would have gladly accepted it and it would have ended there ,

So whichever post you feel is accurate one he failed to provide me with the prize.

This is so redundant
TY IS WRONG no matter how you look at it
I was cheated out of a prize that I rightfully won and should have received.

 

[Sugarhedgie]

Post 1
Post and the winners announced

 

[Sugarhedgie]

Sorry for all the typos
I'm trying to do 10 things at once

 

[Fangthane]

As to her being naïve and asking too many questions. What if he got the replacement tegu from a breeder or a source that she wanted no part of? You realize there are breeders and dealers out there that some people want no part of doing business with right? I'd guess you yourself have people on your do not sell and do not buy from list I know I do.

When it was clear that she wanted to know the animal's origin, that scenario seemed to be one of the obvious justifications. There are multiple reasons why someone would want to have certain information about animals entering their collection. As you said, there are potential ethical concerns at play. Like, if I knew that the tegu had come directly from Mike Matson, Bobby Hill, or someone of their ilk, I really wouldn't want any involvement in anything that would even indirectly be supporting such a person's business. Although, I have to think that any outright refusal based on purely ethical grounds would probably have left her in an appreciably weaker position.

There are also some more pragmatic concerns that could possibly be relevant. It's not out of the realm of possibility that certain breeders may be known to produce animals that aren't particularly high quality. Perhaps initial breeding stock may not be as robust as other lines; maybe excessive, injudicious inbreeding eventually yielded a weaker line. I have trouble believing that anyone involved with breeding animals could keep a straight face while suggesting it's naive to insist on knowing as much about an animal's lineage as possible.

I know that Ty said she'd receive something of the same quality as what he produces - but let's face it, he's made numerous statements that are dubious at best. All in all, I think it would be foolish to suggest that her questions weren't deserving of useful, specific answers.

 

[WebSlave]

A good friend sent me a brief message while I was in the plane getting ready to takeoff, headed home to Chicago. The message simply said in entirety as follows:
"Hey Ty,

Don't respond to the fauna BOI. She's trying to take advantage of you, plain and simple."

This was the first I heard of a recent post on FaunaClassifieds as I haven't been active on that site for a while now.

I have no time to read all the comments or even the initial complaint made by Michelle as I rather spend my valuable time during this precious season with my family and friends. It's is just a speck of irritation on my glass-is-always-full-life.

When IRCF (International Reptile Conservation Foundation) was having difficulty with it's fund raising efforts to help save some of the critically endangered iguanas, I wanted to step up and help. After couple days of thinking, I decided that the best way for me to help them right away was to run a raffle for one of my most desired species (albino tegu) that would be produced in 2016. At this point in the year, I was mostly sold out of animals that I produced in 2015 and I was also tapped out on my giving to reptile related causes, which exceeded $50,000 in 2015.

I ran the idea by IRCF, which is a registered non-profit, and they agreed that we should give it a try. The idea was for me to donate 2 albino tegus to raffle off to raise funds. In addition, I also donated a third albino tegu to a donor who wanted to donate $2500 for one albino tegu---instead of participating in a raffle. We collectively raised more than $7500 (it might be closer to $9000.00 but I can't remember the exact figure at the moment) for IRCF.

What I forgot or didn't think about at the time of the raffle was that there are two types of albino tegu: one is typical albino which are T- albino and the other is highly priced T+ or Purple albino tegu. These were produced by breeding heterozygous blue tegus, so the outcome of which albino or how many by looking at the parents or the eggs are useless. I typically sell my T- albino blue Tegu's for $2500 and T+/purple albino blue tegus for $5000. In 2015, most of my albinos were T- with only two being hatched as T+, which I kept as future breeders. That result was what I was expecting in 2016 but it didn't turn out that way---all the albino tegus I produced were, to my surprise, T+ albinos. At this point, I decided to tell Michelle and others that, although I produced albino tegus, they were all expensive type and that I would buy 3 normal T- tegus from a friend to send to them. I could have just bought the tegus from a friend and shipped them without them knowing but I wanted to be honest and open. The other two winner and buyer was more than happy and gracious but not Michelle. She wanted the $3000 instead because "I didn't produce albino tegu"---which I clearly did. If she approached me and asked for money because she needed the money due to her financial need, I would have most likely to helped her by sending her the money but I felt that she was rather being greedy instead. At this point she started to inundate me with questions which I did not want to answer knowing what kind of person she was and that anything I say might be twisted by her to her advantage, so my answer to her was none or very short. I decided also that I would send her the tegu that I produced (T+ albino) since her contention was that she wanted one that I produced and not by someone else, but I didn't communicate that with her to the end because I wanted to see what kind of person she was and she was greedy to the end. I ask for her address twice so that I could ship her the tegu but she refused each time. After the second refusal, I decided to auction off the tegu I was going to ship her to raise more money for IRCF, which we did to the tune of more than $5000.

Soon I received a registered letter informing me of a lawsuit filed by her in MA. After much thought, I hired an attorney to take care of the lawsuit and fight her claims in court. We decided to ask for change of venue as it would be difficult/inconvenient for me to attend this court case and because the farm is in FL. After few back and forth filing amendments, my attorney set up a phone session with magistrate judge on Dec. 13. At this meeting, she asked for a tegu but I refused because I didn't think she deserved it and that tegu I saved for her was auction off already. I offered her $400 to reimburse her for the raffle tickets she purchase. The next court date is in February and I'll let the judge decide what is right. All I wanted to do was to help the animals in desperate need. In the future, I would still try to help animals in need but with caution. If I see a suffering dog in an enclosed car, I am still going to break the "law" and damage someone's property.

I am currently dictating this response in flight so that once at home, I would not waste my valuable time on this. This will be my one and only post. I'll let others judge me for my actions positive or negative. This time of the year is great and fun time for me and I wish everyone the same---great holiday season filled with love of family and friendship. Here's looking at 2017 with open arms and open hearts.

Ty

I've been following this event with some interest and an open mind, and in my opinion where everything went south is in that statement highlighted above. Ty, so you produced animals that you felt were more valuable than what you had originally offered in the raffle. So what? They certainly didn't COST you any more, now did they? You decided to change the contract because you could have made more money from those unexpected babies?

So imagine the positive press you would have generated had you informed those winners, as well as the public in general, that they were getting more than what they had been expecting. How would that have gone over? How popular would your NEXT raffles be with this in mind? And it would have certainly satisfied Michelle, because she would have been getting an animal produced by you, which is what she wanted. Honestly, in your shoes I would have taken that as a huge compliment that she ONLY wanted an animal produced by me. She only wanted YOUR animal, which to me, says a hell of a lot about what she thought about you and your operation.

So yeah, in my opinion there was a misstep in judgement that could have been avoided, and now here we are with a real mess that could have been a huge positive PR event.

Would it really have been THAT damaging to you, Ty, to have taken the high road in this? Is it too late for that now? Isn't there a good chance you will produce more next year? Would it really be that devastating to send a winner of the raffle exactly what she wants? She was willing to spend her hard earned money for ONLY a chance at AN ALBINO TEGU THAT WAS PRODUCED BY YOU? Right or wrong (as I can see both sides of this), and ego and heels dug in aside, only one person involved can take the step that is available to be done to come up out of this smelling like roses. The only thing the OP can do is just give up on a supposed lost cause, and what then is left behind as a result? Everyone involved is going to have a bad taste in their mouth over this. All this headache just because you produced animals that you could GET MORE MONEY FOR? Well, has it been worth it?

Swallowing pride is a pretty bitter pill to swallow, but in the long run, it proves out to be medicine well worth taking.

IMHO, of course.

 

[caffeinecynic]

When it was clear that she wanted to know the animal's origin, that scenario seemed to be one of the obvious justifications. There are multiple reasons why someone would want to have certain information about animals entering their collection. As you said, there are potential ethical concerns at play. Like, if I knew that the tegu had come directly from Mike Matson, Bobby Hill, or someone of their ilk, I really wouldn't want any involvement in anything that would even indirectly be supporting such a person's business. Although, I have to think that any outright refusal based on purely ethical grounds would probably have left her in an appreciably weaker position.

There are also some more pragmatic concerns that could possibly be relevant. It's not out of the realm of possibility that certain breeders may be known to produce animals that aren't particularly high quality. Perhaps initial breeding stock may not be as robust as other lines; maybe excessive, injudicious inbreeding eventually yielded a weaker line. I have trouble believing that anyone involved with breeding animals could keep a straight face while suggesting it's naive to insist on knowing as much about an animal's lineage as possible.

I know that Ty said she'd receive something of the same quality as what he produces - but let's face it, he's made numerous statements that are dubious at best. All in all, I think it would be foolish to suggest that her questions weren't deserving of useful, specific answers.

Along similar lines, to use one of my own projects as an example:

I work only with Mpenn line IJs currently. If I entered and won a raffle (that I bought tickets for) for an Mpenn line IJ and then was told I was getting an IJ of unspecified lineage, and the person refused me pictures and knowledge of who it came from, it would become a pet-only animal, not one I would feel comfortable breeding. This would certainly upset me as I wouldn't have entered such a raffle to start with.

 

[nicksgrl26]

Would it really have been THAT damaging to you, Ty, to have taken the high road in this? Is it too late for that now? Isn't there a good chance you will produce more next year? Would it really be that devastating to send a winner of the raffle exactly what she wants? She was willing to spend her hard earned money for ONLY a chance at AN ALBINO TEGU THAT WAS PRODUCED BY YOU? Right or wrong (as I can see both sides of this), and ego and heels dug in aside, only one person involved can take the step that is available to be done to come up out of this smelling like roses. The only thing the OP can do is just give up on a supposed lost cause, and what then is left behind as a result? Everyone involved is going to have a bad taste in their mouth over this. All this headache just because you produced animals that you could GET MORE MONEY FOR? Well, has it been worth it?

Swallowing pride is a pretty bitter pill to swallow, but in the long run, it proves out to be medicine well worth taking.

IMHO, of course.

Problem is he seems to be doing this out of principle. Earlier in the thread it was mentioned that he was a real estate guy who doesn't do this for the money and is probably set for life (is this true, no idea). It doesn't seem to be about the money since everyone else got a purple. I don't know what would motivates him, but this forum clearly isn't it

At this point I would accept the other one offered if its still an option (no its not what she should have to do) and sell it for 2500 and use the money later to get the animal I wanted. I doubt he would straight up sell you one of his now, but maybe get a friend to buy one of his for you with the money if you really want his lineage. I think that is probably the furthest ahead you will end up in this whole situation, it sucks but lemons to lemonade.

 

[Sugarhedgie]

Nicksgrl said
"At this point I would accept the other one offered if its still an option (no its not what she should have to do) and sell it for 2500 and use the money later to get the animal I wanted. I doubt he would straight up sell you one of his now, but maybe get a friend to buy one of his for you with the money if you really want his lineage. I think that is probably the furthest ahead you will end up in this whole situation, it sucks but lemons to lemonade."

There is no "other one" he didn't produce any t- and he couldn't get one from a friend.
As for just accepting It and thenselling it,,,,, I concise that flipping and that's not what I do. With ANY of my animals.

The department of agriculture consumer services in FL sent ty a letter on Friday asking him if he wants to settle this. He has 39 days to respond but it will be public. I'm hoping he just does the right thing

 

[Sugarhedgie]

Nicksgrl said
"At this point I would accept the other one offered if its still an option (no its not what she should have to do) and sell it for 2500 and use the money later to get the animal I wanted. I doubt he would straight up sell you one of his now, but maybe get a friend to buy one of his for you with the money if you really want his lineage. I think that is probably the furthest ahead you will end up in this whole situation, it sucks but lemons to lemonade."

There is no "other one" he didn't produce any t- and he couldn't get one from a friend.
As for just accepting It and thenselling it,,,,, I concise that flipping and that's not what I do. With ANY of my animals.

The department of agriculture consumer services in FL sent ty a letter on Friday asking him if he wants to settle this. He has 39 days to respond but it will be public. I'm hoping he just does the right thing

*correction. He has 30 days

 

[WebSlave]

The department of agriculture consumer services in FL sent ty a letter on Friday asking him if he wants to settle this. He has 30 days to respond but it will be public. I'm hoping he just does the right thing

What would you accept as settlement?

 

[nicksgrl26]

In a perfect world nobody would have to sell an animal they bought, but it happens. The more nefarious flipping is buying something and calling it your own...and raising the price. Animals are sold that are bred from other people all the time because the don't fit into the breeding plans anymore or they are out of room or they have a family emergency and they need cash or they got a bunch of stuff in a package deal but they only want some of it. Are you saying all those people reselling things are malicious?

It is the best of a bad situation to get you closest to the monetary value you want. If he doesn't have one or have access to one then try to bring up the actual value of the animal and skip the middle man. Maybe he will give the 2500 if you explain thats the cost of the animal originally in the raffle. Its a logical request that maybe he will listen to. Heck, bring up that if the court rules in your favor for a blue albino but not a purple albino but he never produces one again or refuses to provide you one, that's how much you would get.

At some point you will have to decide if you want the money or the animal or the principle. If its the animal and somehow the courts compel him to give you one of his you may have to wait a while until they hatch and trust that it was his and not someone elses. I know you keep saying he has holdbacks but technically they aren't "baby albinos" anymore so you would probably get another hatchling since if they are like ball pythons they appreciate in value to a certain point. If its the money then you probably won't get more than 2500 or whatever they deem is the actual cost of the animal. If its the principle of the matter I can respect that too, stand your ground and hope it goes your way.

Anyways, I'm just throwing out solutions that could possible get to your goal if it were animal or money. They aren't optimal and if you go to court you will probably spend more on travel/expenses than what you will receive, it sucks but its reality. On top of that you will probably be going after to the charity because he never touched the money. Hence I figure one option was getting the animal from him (I'm sure he could pull an albino out of somewhere if he had to...just not produced by him) and selling it for its actual value. I am sympathetic to you and you got screwed, but if you don't bend a little bit you may be cutting off your nose in spite of your face.

I hope you get whatever you feel is most important to you.

 

[TriangleReptiles]

Like I said 10 pages ago, you will lose this fight. You too have your groupies cheering you on, is any one of them a lawyer? When Ty Park asked you for your address to send you something, you should have given him your address. Your failure to do so, will be seen by the court as rejecting the prize. And that is the end of the story for you. And then, if Ty is extra angry about this he could and should sue you for libel.

This whole rant/post faunaclassifieds, all 73 pages of it, is a written defamation. All of this does damage to Ty's reputation. How many times was the word scammer, dishonest used in all of this?

Truth is its own defense in defamation, libel and slander cases,

 

[Sugarhedgie]

What would you accept as settlement?

I don't know how to quote several things or people. Sorry

But you ask what I would accept as a settlement?

I would either like one of the t+ albino tegus that he produced and the others got. As far as I know from his postings he has 6 at the farm left
Or
The cash

That's if it stops here and I don't have to retain a lawyer and take it to the Fl courts naming both ty and the IRCF
I am planning on filing and asking the mass courts to dismiss the case without predgudice (they told me I could)

If it goes to court i agree we don't know what the outcome will be and it is risky I may not win because of all the semantics and different states involved. But I will be asking for a t+ or the cash value of it. There is also a unfair and deceptive business practice law that I could file and file a suit for libel, slander and deformation of character.

I was so excited to win the tegu but this whole thing has turned into a nightmare and a major headache.

I hate fighting but i also don't just want to let it go and walk away with nothing because I won fair and square.

 

[John7429]

Yikes.