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    Yeah, I know. They are a pain in the butt. But they pay the bills to keep my server running. Just a fact of life, I am afraid.

    Want to get rid of them? Simple. Just become a Contributor level member or above and they will be gone. -> Please click HERE."

    Is that too much for me to ask of you to keep this site running? Well, sorry about that. I too wish I could get everything for free. But alas.....

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    Google Adsense ad revenue for December, 2025 was just $30 over the cost of the lease for the server running this site. So, in effect, the money providing the incentive for me to continue running this site is coming SOLELY from the paid memberships and sponsorships here. Which honestly ain't much....

Update on Dave Lawson Situation

Dave did reply to the problem at hand in this thread.  Now, whether one believes Dave is another story, but he did respond.  I don't know either person involved other than by reputation, but I have to question somone who posts a thread that demands us all to see him as a liar then asks us all to believe him now.

Ron SAYS that he posted that Dave made everything right before because Dave forced him to do so under duress.  OK, if I believe that, then I have to believe that Ron was willing to lie to us all in order to get what he wanted from Dave.  If I don't believe Ron, I have to conclude that he is NOW lying to us all to get what he wants from Dave.  Either way, Ron is lying (or has lied) to us all in order to get what he wants from Dave!  Is there not something dreadfully wrong with this scenario?!?

Someone recently pointed out that if this were any other person beside Dave, we would all be jumping down his throat for ripping someone off and not walking on pins and needles as we are.  That's probably true, but it's also true that if this were someone else, we would probably not take Ron's story at face value so quickly.

Oh, what a tangled web we weave . . .
 
OK, so I'm not so swift at finding old messages at 3 am.......  I guess it's that old age thing taking its toll.

No, I am not banning Neil at this point, but he has definitely been put on notice about it.  I believe I have made my point with him.  And no, I do not ban anyone because someone else may want me to do so.

So what, I'm a softie at heart.

Now I want to throw this mystery into the pot.  Talk about a 'tangled weave'.........

How can the following three people all have the same identical IP address on 07/30/02 between the hours of 19:40 and 21:38?:

Ronald Allen
Chris Pearson
Dave Lawson

What are the odds of this coincidence?  The IP address is an AOL account, which uses proxy servers, but what are the odds that three different people will have the same identical IP address and be posting in this single thread within the same approximate timeframe?

I have to assume it is a coincidence, because I can not, for the life of me, imagine what it would mean if it is not.
 
To: Bill Cagle and anyone else who wants to read.


Subject: You statement Bil


I  read some of the posts here about Neil, about what he said, and frankly all I put was that he indeed didnt deserve to be kicked off, and that perhaps he should just be kinder and gentler to those that disparge him, since the other method isnt working very well.

As usual,BillCagle, you TAKE THE TIME OUT FROM YOUR BUSY DAY to come in an disparage aWHOLE GROUP of people, if which I am but one. Bravo!! I am glad that things are as they should be.
People have told me thaty you changed, that the BillCagle they know is trying to change from being such a putz into a guy that treats everyone fairly. I didnt beleive it.....

I was told, that because of your rpurported religous beliefs, that you have sought wisdom from the God that you beleive in and tried to change your behaviour to suit that.A big task, one that even I fall FAR short at.  But..you stayed the same.

On one hand it is nice to know that you havent changed and can still be depended upon to be the mule you have always been.
On the other hand, it saddens me that though you say(To friends) that you have changed, you continue to do things that the"Old Bill Cagle" would have done.Which means you havent escaped from your sin. And that stinks.

Pot calling the kettle black? Perhaps..But thispot NEVER said that he was diffrent or would change. Then again, maybe the person I talked to just wanted your boas and SAW you as diffren cause they needed to.  I am glad I brought my glasses,I see you just as you are. Little Billy Cagle.


                                       *cheers*

                                      Fred Albury
                                 Aztec Reptiles
 
Web Slave
It has to be a coincidence as far as Chris Pearson goes, I know him personally, and have dealt with him on numorous occasions. He is a regular at the shows and in no way would ever be invovled with Neil, Dave, Ron or the likes of them. I don't know why it would be showing the same IP address. but as far as Chris being in this, its a definite mistake.
Wen Hughes
 
You know what?<img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='???'>  I come on this board to fnd out who is trustworthy an who is not!!!
I think this board is great when it is used for what it was intended to be used for!!! But you have crooks(sorry webslave) calling other people crooks!!!  I just want to ask a <img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='???'>,,, while yall are on here bashing each other,,,who is taking care of your animals?<img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='???'> As of right now,,,i have 39 snakes and 7 lizards,,,and i always have something to do with them... Thereare always cages to be cleaned,,animals to be fed,,animals to be boxed up to be sold,,,and the most important thing,,,animals to be HANDLED!!!! Have you forgotten why you got into this business in the first place??? Because some of us have not... Webslave,,,i am sorry if i did not stick to the particular post,,,,i have never gotten involved in these posts,,,because i feel they are CHILDISH... But i just have to wonder,,, when is it all gonna stop???  I mean,,,come on guys,,,if you want soap operas,,,watch General Hospital or something... This is just my opinion... And if some of you want to attack me fo posting this,,,then go ahead,,, because I KNOW where my PRIORITIES are.. This is not directed at any particular person or people,,only at the ones that have forgotten about their love for reptiles,,and about what this board was intended to be used for...
 Thx Webslave for an Awesome place to find out who i should do business with,,and who i should not!!!!
Jeff Lewis
 
I SHOULD HAVE KNOWN YOU WOULD BE THE FIRST TO RESPOND FRED. ALTHOUGH I MENTIONED NEIL AND DAVE'S NAMES BEFORE YOURS, AS USUAL, YOU ARE THE FIRST TO CHIME IN. I HAVE NOT CHANGED ANYTHING ABOUT MYSELF OR THE WAY I DO BUSINESS. I HAVE NO NEED TO CHANGE A THING. IT SEEMS YOU ARE ONCE AGAIN TRYING TO ATTACK MY CHARACTER. I KNEW YOU WOULD DO THIS WHEN I TYPED IN YOUR NAME. I GUESS IT WAS A LITTLE INMATURE ON MY PART, BUT THIS IS WHAT THE BOI IS ALL ABOUT TO ME. I HAVE LEARNED FROM PAST EXPERIENCES ON THIS SITE NOT TO TAKE IT SERIOUSLY. I AM VERY DISAPPOINTED TO SEE YOU BRINGING RELIGION INTO THIS. YOU ARE OBVIOUSLY A MORE TROUBLED MAN THAN I PREVIOUSLY THOUGHT. DO YOU THINK YOU WILL EVER BE ABLE TO LOOK BEYOND YOUR JEALOUSY? I DOUBT IT, BUT YOU REALLY SHOULD BUY YOURSELF A DICTIONARY. WITH ALL THE FREE TIME ON YOUR HANDS WITH YOUR BAD BACK AND ALL, YOU SHOULD BRUSH UP ON YOUR SPELLING AND GRAMMAR! I AM NOT TRYING TO ATTACK YOUR CHARACTER, JUST TRYING TO HELP KEEP YOU FROM LOOKING SO IGNORANT. YOU SAY I HAVE GONE FROM BEING A BAD GUY TO NOW BEING A GOOD GUY. FRED, I WAS NEVER THE BAD GUY AND I HAVE HUNDREDS OF SATISFIED CUSTOMERS TO BACK ME UP. PLEASE FEEL FREE TO GO TO MY "BOAS SOLD" ALBUM AND CALL ANY OF MY CUSTOMERS. REGARDLESS OF WHAT YOU SAY OR DO, I WILL CONTINUE TO SELL TOP QUALITY BOAS AND BACK THEM WITH THE BEST GUARANTEE IN THE BUSINESS. YOU ON THE OTHER HAND ARE SLOWLY BUT SURELY MAKING A NAME FOR YOURSELF. I AND MANY OTHERS CONTINUE TO SEE YOU POST THE SAME ANIMALS FOR SALE OVER AND OVER. THERE IS A REASON FOR THIS AND I HOPE YOU FIGURE IT OUT SOON. I PERSONALLY DO NOT WISH ANYTHING BAD OR NEGATIVE TOWARDS YOU, I JUST GET TIRED OF SEEING YOU ATTEMPT TO BASH ME. PEOPLE LIKE YOU ARE THE ONES THAT MAKE PEOPLE LIKE ME LOOK EVEN BETTER. I WILL END THIS WITH MY BY NOW FAMOUS QUOTE: "RIGHT IS RIGHT AND WRONG IS WRONG". MAYBE SOMEDAY YOU WILL FIGURE THIS CONCEPT OUT.
 
I did a search for IP address info and found the below on a site about IP addresses.AOL in particular I found interesting, seeing as AOL assigns IP addresses for several users from one pool of addresses I would say it is more then likely that Ron, Dave and Chris having the same IP address is purely coincidental, maybe they were assigned the same address because they were all logged on at or around the same time.
   I hope the post that was insinuating of the three being possibly one and the same doesn't cause damage to a totally innocent party. And that an apology will be posted for not researching and verifying that there was true cause for suspicion before making a comment. After reading the explanation on IP addresses I don't see any mystery at all.
 I can't say what type of people Ron or Dave are, but I do know Chris Pearson is an honest man that take great pride in his business and his animals.
Wen Hughes
Below is from just one of several sites about IP addresses.

Static versus Dynamic IP Addresses
The discussion above topic assumes that IP addresses are assigned on a static basis. In fact, many IP addresses are assigned dynamically from a pool. Many corporate networks and online services economize on the number of IP addresses they use by sharing a pool of IP addresses among a large number of users. If you're an America Online user, for example, your IP address will vary from one logon session to the next because AOL is assigning it to you from a pool that is much smaller than AOL's base of subscribers.  So you and other AOL suscribers can be assigned the same IP address during your log on sessions.
 
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">

  I hope the post that was insinuating of the three being possibly one and the same doesn't cause damage to a totally innocent party. And that an apology will be posted for not researching and verifying that there was true cause for suspicion before making a comment. After reading the explanation on IP addresses I don't see any mystery at all.
</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

Wen - you can take the information I provided and do what you please with it.  I just stated the facts and my puzzlement over those facts.  Please read it again without the obvious bias you are applying while reading.  I have been running message boards for a number of years now, and in no instance in the past have I seen something like this happen before.  I constantly scan IP addresses in messages to be on the lookout for people that are using multiple registered IDs in threads.  This is common practice for board moderators, and is normally a valid method of capturing this sort of problem.  It is also why most message board operators absolutely HATE AOL.  It should be obvious to people whom know these things why this is such a puzzle to me.

As for an apology, about what?  No one reading those messages could conclude that those three people are one and the same.  I thought it was very interesting, and where else do you think would have been more appropriate to post my comment about this puzzle?  If there is any apology to be made, perhaps one is due from yourself for thinking there was more between the lines then was actually there and accusing me of such.
 
"Your words sir:   " "Would you like a light vinagerett dressing to go with your meal(words)?"

Bil Cagle quote: "I HAVE NO NEED TO CHANGE A THING. IT SEEMS YOU ARE ONCE AGAIN TRYING TO ATTACK MY CHARACTER. I KNEW YOU WOULD DO THIS WHEN I TYPED IN YOUR NAME. I GUESS IT WAS A LITTLE INMATURE ON MY PART, BUT THIS IS WHAT THE BOI IS ALL ABOUT TO ME"


Yes....indeed, that is what this BOI is to you Bill, a venue for you to expound on your  superiiority in this business while at the same time putting other down, en mass. In the quote above you yourself say that due to your own immature behaviour, you posted my name on here EXPECTING a response.

So you got EXACTLY what you wanted.A response.The same one you were fishing for.And a chance to tell everyone what a great businessman that you are, which really isnt the gist of what I was getting at. I was telling you that people told me you changed, and are a good guy now. YOU on the other hand , feel that there is no need for you to change, in the past, or now. So,I think that that person is perhaps misled by their desire to buy boas from you. Ever want something so bad that you are willing to ignore bad character and wrong doings in order to get it? I think that the person who spoke to me did just that. I really had thought you changed, and am dissapointed that you not only didnt, but see nothing wrong with your general attitude. Perhaps some of your "Not-So-Happy" customers will come on here and tell theie stories of you and your dealings.
But wait!!!!
That  will never work/
You have only happy , satisfied customers.
What was I thinking?


Bill, next time you go fishing, prepare to either have your weak, old, raggedy bait ignored..or prepare to have a nice solid strike and deal with the negativity which you rbing on yourself.  If you are truly the "King of Boa" then I think that you need to step down and switch places with the court jester. Because you are an entertaining sort....
In that way that train wrecks, infectious diseases, and earthquakes are entertaining. You like to watch them, but you know the world would be abetter place if they didnt exist.

Fred Albury
Aztec Reptiles
 
Fred Albury and Bill Cagle:

Please cease and desist within this thread.  This topic is NOT about either one of you and it should stay that way.  If either one of you want to recall an older thread or create a new one about the other, then have at it.  Unless your messages are about Dave Lawson or Ronald Allen, they do not belong here.

Any further messages ignoring this warning will be deleted, and I likely will continue as far upstream as necessary to clean out this thread.

Thanks.
 
Webslave,
To answer your claim that Ronald, Dave & I are all in the same are rediculous. Im insulted that you would even insinuate that I am affiliated with a guy who just admitted he lied to all of us on the BOI and a guy who's business practices aren't exactly what one anyone thrives to achieve.
Chris Pearson
 
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">
Webslave,
To answer your claim that Ronald, Dave & I are all in the same are rediculous. Im insulted that you would even insinuate that I am affiliated with a guy who just admitted he lied to all of us on the BOI and a guy who's business practices aren't exactly what one anyone thrives to achieve.
Chris Pearson
</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

Chris, read my post again without the chip on your shoulder and see if it sounds differently to you.

Excuse me while I put that chip on my own shoulder for a moment. I've had a rough day today and just feel cantankerous:

If you feel I was insinuating something, and not just pointing out an interesting piece of information I determined from viewing the IP addresses within that thread, then go ahead and knock yourself out and be insulted.

I will post whatever information I find relevant in any thread on this message board at any time I choose to do so.  If the facts I divulge insult you, then I suggest that it is the facts that you should take up issue with and not the bearer of the news on this board.  The facts are indisputable regardless of whomever is stating them.

I even commented on how I am at a loss to interpret them myself.  How you interpret them is completely up to you and of absolutely no concern to me.  I suggested no opinion either way about them.  As a matter of fact, I even suggested that it was implausible that it was not a coincidence.

There was no 'claim' as you are stating except one that has formulated between your own two ears. I stand behind the posting of the facts that I noted within that thread, and if it is those facts that insult you, then so be it.
 
Hey . . .everybody,

The WebSlave actually wrote this in that initial post about the three posters with identical IP adresses:

"I have to assume it is a coincidence, because I can not, for the life of me, imagine what it would mean if it is not."

Where is the insuation there of ANYTHING other than these three people are just coincidentally posting at the same time with the same IP address?  

I know that everyone is hyper-sensitive whenever they see their name in print on the BOI, but come on!  It really helps us all if we would just read what is written, then, if there is any doubt, ASK what the intention was BEFORE we get our noses out of joint.

For example, if I have offended anyone with this post . . .Oh, never mind.  Just go ahead and jump on me for it.  I'm used to it by now.
 
Webslave,
My apologies for my post about you insinuating that we are one in the same.I know it was only a coincidence & I got defensive because I saw my name involved in post of people with Lets say at this point "Questionable reputation". I have a couple of questions for  
Ronald,Was that your first deal with Dave or have you dealt with him in the past? You both have posted your side of the story was all your correspondence done over the phone or do either of you have any emails to verify either side of the story to try to clear this up.
Chris Pearson
 
i just want to clear every thing up that neil had nothing to do with this . this between me and dave only neils name does not need to be brought up in this problem .  Rainbowboaman this was not my first deal with dave i have had several deals and everything has been great . but this time i got some really sick animals and this time he is not doing anything about it .




                 ronald allen
 
Ron,How long of a warrenty do you want?6 ,8, 12 months?

This is written at the bottom of the price list that you ordered from

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">***LIVE ARRIVAL GUARENTEE***
If there is trouble with your shipment call a.s.a.p. Do not wait.
There is a  shipping charge
Free shipping for orders over $800
All animals are feeding unless stated otherwise.

</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

It is the standard guarentee.Tou were so happy with each and every animal when you picked them up and checked them.Then you ship some of them to a lady for some reason she shipped them back to you put them back in with all the others and then they started to die (according to you wife).To me it sounds like the snakes that you got back from your customer spead something to the rest of the snakes.Then you come on here and tell people that I have been avoiding all your calls and e-mails when you know that I was talking to your wife several times aday about this (so you lied about that) .I tried to call you personally but your wife answered , she and I talked of your post and I told her that you needed to correct your mistake about me avoiding you.Then you come on here and post that I took care of the problem.Another lie,all I said was that I did not know what if anything I was going to do.

Now ont to Neil Gubitz, Before ,durring and after your first post you were in contact with Mr. Gubitz about this subject via e-mail, phone and in person (according to your wife) so do not sit here and say that he had nothing to do with this mess.Your wife said he was telling you what to do.If you would have talk to me instead of having your wife call, if you would have never listened to Mr. Gubitz or never came on here and posted lie after lie maybe this would have had a better ending.

I lived up to our agreement the animals were alive and healthy upon your inspection on delievery.I never heard word 1 from you for 10 days.
 
Dave,

you stated in your most recent post that Ron lied to the BOI about the snakes showing up fine.  Ummm, I guess what I question is WHY did he lie?  Did you put him up to it as he claimed?  Did you tell him he should post that you made it right or else you wouldn't do anything about it?  I could be wrong, and I apologize if I am, but I don't recall seeing you ever address that particular issue.  

Also, if the snakes were sold to someone else after Dave's and Ron's transaction, wouldn't that kind of nullify whatever guarantees Dave gave to Ron?  Just playing devil's advocate since the animals were sent to a third party after the initial sale, and Dave can't be held responsible for what happens in THAT transaction.
Myabe it is just me, but something smells funny here.  Can't figure what it is, but there is an aroma somewhere.
Hope you guys can work out whatever needs to be worked out.
 
I have a few comment on this post. I know this post is not going to be liked by a few people but I am going to speak the truth.
1. under normal circumstances when a customer goes to a wholesalers facility and hand "cherry picks" animals that is the warranty. If the animals are good enough to be hand picked them that is the end of it. There is no live arrival guarantee because you are hand picking them. Cherry picking is the best way of getting the best animals you can. Wholesale is wholesale. It is not retail. Most wholesalers do not make high profit margins on wholesale animals unless they import them directly and sometimes even then do not make a lot.
2. if animals are sent and arrive alive and nothing is mentioned for days then there is nothing the wholesaler will or can do. If you order from any other wholesaler in the nation, and the animals arrive alive that is it. They will not guarantee animals any longer than arrival. try to get any of the larger wholesalers to do anything after 3+ days after delivery and specially if "cherry picked" none of them will do a thing.
3. If the person who is selling the animals at retail has a problem on their end, unfortunately that is part of retail. that is why retail is able to mark up the price to make money. Retail prices are there to make money, cover expenses and such.

Don't get me wrong here, I am not siding with either party I am just stating some facts. When I sell wholesale I guarantee live arrival and if a customer comes back to me a week or 10 days later and says this animal is not eating, or is sick or dead, there is nothing I can do. Once the animal or animals have been out of my control for any period of time I can not be responsible for what happens to those animals. I have no control over if they are caring for the animals correctly. I ahve lost my share of animals that I cherry picked at some of the wholesalers in Florida, but that is the risk of buying import animals. Just in the last year I have lost almost $10,000 in animals I have either handpicked, or animals that I have imported that did not fair well. But I do not and can not get the wholesaler or exporter to send me replacement animals.
 
Well this is the first time anyone has mentioned anything about a third party.  That in itself nulifies the guarantee.  Why did she send tham back? Something is a miss.  
   Contact the woman and find out what she did to your animals.  Why didn't you (RON) talk to Dave?  You had your wife do it for you? Were you scared?
   Ron, you know Dave is not responsible.  Tell e this would you replace snakes after 10 days and after they had been shipped to a third party?  Look at YOUR guarantee would you do what you are asking from Dave?
   I do not think there should be a guarantee on hand picked animals, because the buyer can take them home, and no one has to worry how they are being treated in shipping.  Or even if they would arrive in time.
    Ron take it as a loss and move along.

Torie Miller
 
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