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Bad Guy Update on the boa I purchased from Carlos Rojas

Fwiw... Those that know me, know I 'go big'/post for a reason.

The reason I'm posting; is because I had made a last ditch decision because I've never dealt with Carlos... I was apprehensive about it til this thread and felt bad a little...

I had a friend hit me up weeks ago about his/Carlos' Boa collection for sale. My guy was looking to spend $10,000 for everything he had at one point and I was to take the BP's. Guess what?

I told him, "no." "Don't you dare!" I didn't like the quality of the photos posted... Them alone! There are little red flags everywhere from breeders. Pay close attention and they will weed themselves out for YOU!

How are you going to take a crummy photo of a multi thousand dollar animal and try to get money for it? That is a sign! I promise! If somebody snaps a horrible pic of a high dollar animal... Think about it alone; there's no way they take care of it with massive detail. There's simply no way!

That's it, I'm done for now... :)
 
strange, the first message states that Dan did not receive the snake at his home and opened the box outside of his clean environment that he is so proud of. So why is that any more acceptable than Carlos taking the animal to be packed elsewhere?

18 days and an explosion of mites which now is an infestation? It still doesn't add up to me. Mites aren't all on timers and appear all at once while screaming a mighty "charge!" You would have seen a few here and there and it would have gotten worse. But of course, this is easier to see when you have provided proper quarantine conditions. If the buyer would have upheld his almighty standards, only exposed his animal to controlled conditions, provided proper quarantine conditions, and treated for the possibilities that occur when animals leave our controlled environments, then I might feel differently. If the buyer would have done standard handling techniques for newly acquired animals, the odds are he would have never seen a mite.

Now the buyer has many animals effected by mites. Those animals were infected due to poor husbandry and quarantine of his own animals. This information was openly admitted to by the buyer. Mistakes happen, deal with it.

I do not know of a single vendor who takes his animals to shows that has a quarantine area for them. In this standard of proper quarantine measures they should do this because shows are the ultimate way of exposing animals to diseases, mites or worse. So when people make comments about "professionals" and their practices, they might want to keep in mind how the real world works.

I've been dealing with reptiles a couple decades. I've dealt with mites from animals acquired from shows, animals dropped off, and animals bought from private people. I've even had mites seek into my collection from no known outside source. Once we know we have them, we deal with them.

Most vendors do not offer a health guarantee beyond a week. This vendor is not responsible for your poor quarantine practices or your other animals. You have mites, deal with it.

Carlos :thumbsup:
 
Tom Pecanic said:
Fwiw... Those that know me, know I 'go big'/post for a reason.

The reason I'm posting; is because I had made a last ditch decision because I've never dealt with Carlos... I was apprehensive about it til this thread and felt bad a little...

I had a friend hit me up weeks ago about his/Carlos' Boa collection for sale. My guy was looking to spend $10,000 for everything he had at one point and I was to take the BP's. Guess what?

I told him, "no." "Don't you dare!" I didn't like the quality of the photos posted... Them alone! There are little red flags everywhere from breeders. Pay close attention and they will weed themselves out for YOU!

How are you going to take a crummy photo of a multi thousand dollar animal and try to get money for it? That is a sign! I promise! If somebody snaps a horrible pic of a high dollar animal... Think about it alone; there's no way they take care of it with massive detail. There's simply no way!

That's it, I'm done for now... :)
Click to expand...

I think you may have me confused with another Carlos. My collection has never been for sale.
 
Tom Pecanic said:
I didn't like the quality of the photos posted... Them alone!
Click to expand...

To me, the skills I would look for in a good vendor are strong healthy critters, good customer service, honesty and courtesy.

Photography? If someone has the skills to take excellent pictures that is nice, but to me not part of the skill set required to produce great critters.
I do have strong photo preferences, the picture must be of the actual critter for sale and not merely representative and if there are issues that need to be disclosed like a nipped tail on a dragon they should be pictured as such.

One could deny themselves some really nice animals if one insisted on only buying critters that had slick magazine quality pix.
 
Dan W said:
Carlos first of all it wasn't a month later. You shipped on the 19th and I first contacted you on the 9th so it was about 17 days, do the math. I actually wasn't going to contact you at all but after paying for a "healthy clean snake" I was angry. You lied about the shipping date on the provent a mite saying it could not be shipped until March 22nd which (big surprise) was another lie. I ordered it myself. I never said I was going to do anything to ruin your reputation. Read what I wrote, You and your actions will ruin your reputation. You sold me an INFESTED snake. I did block you on facebook because I have no reason to deal with you again. I don't need a scape goat. You sell sick diseased animals because you sold me one. And there are no trips to pet stores, you were going to try and go the route of blaming it on feeder rodents until I told you I buy from ARS and they are all frozen. You asked me to post a good comment for you and I did because I did not know at that time exactly what you are. I have dealt with breeders for many many years, a lot longer then you have and I guarantee that. I have never sold a sick animal and will not condone anyone else doing it. I have lists of references and am friends with some of the best in the business. You will become known for what you do. Simple. Just clean up your animals and don't do this to anyone else in the future. Don't blame your customer when you know what you are selling them. That's all I have to say. Also feel free to explain why you lied about the shipping date on the provent a mite. I am very interested to see how you try and turn this around too.
Click to expand...

Could you please post the vet report stating the exact sickness and disease your snake has?
 
Dan W said:
Carlos first of all it wasn't a month later. You shipped on the 19th and I first contacted you on the 9th so it was about 17 days, do the math. I actually wasn't going to contact you at all but after paying for a "healthy clean snake" I was angry. You lied about the shipping date on the provent a mite saying it could not be shipped until March 22nd which (big surprise) was another lie. I ordered it myself. I never said I was going to do anything to ruin your reputation. Read what I wrote, You and your actions will ruin your reputation. You sold me an INFESTED snake. I did block you on facebook because I have no reason to deal with you again. I don't need a scape goat. You sell sick diseased animals because you sold me one. And there are no trips to pet stores, you were going to try and go the route of blaming it on feeder rodents until I told you I buy from ARS and they are all frozen. You asked me to post a good comment for you and I did because I did not know at that time exactly what you are. I have dealt with breeders for many many years, a lot longer then you have and I guarantee that. I have never sold a sick animal and will not condone anyone else doing it. I have lists of references and am friends with some of the best in the business. You will become known for what you do. Simple. Just clean up your animals and don't do this to anyone else in the future. Don't blame your customer when you know what you are selling them. That's all I have to say. Also feel free to explain why you lied about the shipping date on the provent a mite. I am very interested to see how you try and turn this around too.
Click to expand...

If I was one of the "best in the business" and was a friend of your's, I would be embarrassed to admit it after reading your little tantrums here and knowing my experience meant jack squat to you with regard to your quarantine skills.
 
Lucille said:
To me, the skills I would look for in a good vendor are strong healthy critters, good customer service, honesty and courtesy.

Photography? If someone has the skills to take excellent pictures that is nice, but to me not part of the skill set required to produce great critters.
I do have strong photo preferences, the picture must be of the actual critter for sale and not merely representative and if there are issues that need to be disclosed like a nipped tail on a dragon they should be pictured as such.

One could deny themselves some really nice animals if one insisted on only buying critters that had slick magazine quality pix.
Click to expand...
Lucille,
Tom had me confused for with someone else named Carlos(its the Mike of the hispanic community). He apologized and we cleared it up via PM. That being said, I do agree with Tom and you that if you are producing or selling highend animals you need to produce good and clear pictures that highlight their flaws and strengths so that the buyer gets an accurate representation of what they are buying.
 
Dan,

I'm still reading all of what you posted, but if Carlos was trying to order you PAM off of Amazon, then he very well could have gotten a different "ship by" date than you.

Amazon is notorious for changing pricing and available to ship dates! I can put an in stock now item in my cart at 8am, and try to pay for it at noon, only find its price to have doubled and it not available to ship until the next week!

Even better, the actual merchandiser may have the product in stock on their website but the stock listed on Amazon may be sold out.
 
I do not have many animals affected by mites. I first said I had them in a couple of other cages and then a couple of days later I said I had them throughout my collection. And the snake was delivered at my home. I was gone when the snake was delivered and Carlos sent it to my wife at my home. My wife put the boa into a cage with another boa in it. She didn't know not to do that because she never does anything with the snakes. We then went out of town for a week. I have been in this hobby for over 25 years and this is the first time I have ever had a mite. I have never had anything wrong with my snakes. I have also never sold an infested or sick snake either. And like I said before, I paid for a boa that was suppose to be in excellent health and instead got a mite infested boa. Anyone who thinks it is ok shouldn't be in this business.
I don't think they sell the real provent on amazon. I called the manufacturer and he had a list of places that had it in. If Carlos wanted to get it to me he could have.
Gary considering the stupid comments you are making about how everyone gets mites and we should just deal with it shows you are on the Carlos fan wagon and no more trustworthy as far as the health and condition of your animals then Carlos is. Keep talking. Everyone is getting to see how you feel about the animals and that you think it's ok to sell infested snakes. I'm so done with this conversation. It is not worth my time.
 
Dan,

My apologies if I got it wrong he wasn't ordering from Amazon. Can you prove he could have gotten PAM to you quicker than what he said? At this point it's he said you said. The BOI isn't taking his side-so please try and lower your frustrations. We'd all be asking him to provide explanations and proof if he were to say something like you were a non paying buyer or anything negative like that. You are accusing him of something. The BOI simply exists to figure out if the accusations are founded in truth.

It's a lot to accuse Carlos of -saying he sent you an infested snake and also decided to cheap out and send an inferior product to treat her.


You both agree that the snake had no visible mites upon her arrival. He didn't see any when he shipped her. YOU yourself said she was great and you gave a positive review.

That to me points that you simply didn't RECEIVE AN INFESTED SNAKE. You got a snake at worse that that was harboring mite EGGS or picked them up after.

Mite EGGS could, very honestly and truly, be from ANYWHERE. He's saying he took the snake to a pet shop to get packed up. That was a stupid thing to do. A mistake I don't think he'll make again.

You said you weren't even home to accept the shipment and that you let your wife put the snake into your collection with no quarantine. That was a stupid thing to do. A mistake I hope-fervently-you've learned from.


I stand by my original posting. BOTH of you guys made dumb mistakes. Carlos isn't at fault for your entire collection getting mites-you (wife?) are.

The snake had mite eggs. Carlos has apologized (we have proof of that) but you didn't notice any illness or mites on the snake so it's possible Carlos had no knowledge or reason to believe that she had them/would get them.

You can't say that Carlos sent you a sick or infested snake. Simply because he didn't.
 
Looking back at the facebook correspondence, Carlos offered to also buy you (Dan Wilson) the provent a mite, on top of the rep. clean if you still wanted it. Dan, you mention having to get it yourself, but considering the offer he made, he sounded willing to have purchased it from a different seller if you had pointed out you found someone that could get it to you sooner, or could have refunded you the money. I don't see him denying that the mites came from his end somewhere, and he apologizes and offers to help. The only thing I see is you getting frustrated and cutting the conversation. Of course, I've never dealt with the stress of having mites and I can understand how it would be easy to loose your cool in such a situation, but staying calm looks better for your side, especially considering Carlos has remained polite.

Might be good to remember that many potential buyers and sellers do search fauna before going through with a sale. Sellers are just as likely to avoid doing business with buyers that cant stay controlled and polite on the forums. And this thread will come up if people do a search for either person's name.
 
Yes I can prove it. I called and ordered the provent a mite from pro products on Thursday March 13th and received it yesterday.
 
The problem with how Carlos handled the situation is this.

Dan
Carlos. We have a problem. The snake you sold me has
mites. They are concentrated in his cage but have spread to a couple of my other cages. The snake I got from you was the first new snake that I brought into my collection in a year.
.
Carlos
hmm. I don't really know where she picked them up. The only thing I could think of is that she picked them up during packing at my buddies pet shop. Regardless I apologize. I will send you some Provent-a-mite tomorrow morning.
I would also coat her with some olive oil tonight to smother the ones that are there.
.
Dan
I have them in other cages too so I've got some work ahead. Does the provent work well?
Is it safe to use?
.
Carlos
its the best thing out there
Its tailor made for reptiles as long as you follow the directions on the package. I got mites in my collection 5 yrs ago and it killed all of them within a week.
And I've been mite free since
.
Dan
ok. When can I expect to receive that?
How do you use it? Its a spray?

Carlos on March 9th
Ill mail it on 3 day express tomorrow
.
Dan
ok

Carlos
its a spray that you spray on their cages. Let it air our for 5-10 min, coat your reptiles with olive oil. By the time you are done with that the cages will have aired out enough to place the reptiles back in. Then Repeat the process within a week....and no it shouldn't bother the cat
.
Dan
ok
Thanks

Carlos
no worries. BTW do you get your feeders from pet stores?

Dan
We love the boa we got from you. He is beautiful.
No.
We order from ARS
We buy frozen only

Carlos
okay, just trying to think were the boa picked them up from. I will let my buddy know to look for them in his store
.Dan
Yeah. I know it wasn't here only because I haven't has a problem before this and like I said he is the only snake Ive brought in in over a year.

Carlos
gotcha. Well thanks for the heads up. Once again I apologize for the inconvenience.

Dan
OK. Thanks for the help on this.
.
Dan
March 10th, 1:13pm
Did you get that shipped?

Carlos
I will as soon as I get off of work
March 10th, 6:11pm
I ordered the provent a mite for you. Let me know when it arrive please

Dan
I will. When is it suppose to be here? Thank you.

March 11th, 5:51pm
When is it going to get here? Ive got to get this mess under control.

Carlos
Sorry day. I missed your message yesterday. I check online and it looks like it will be there friday
.
Dan
OK. Thanks

Carlos
till then follow these protocols: http://www.allboas.com/mites.php

Thursday 5:19pm
Dan
What's the name of the stuff you sent?
.
Carlos
Rep clean. I was going to send you Provent a mite, but this one can be sprayed directly on the snakes and the environment, where Provent a mite can only be used on cages

Dan
I need the provent a mite. I bought stuff for the snakes.
I do not want to have to keep doing this over and over again.
.
Carlos
This works just as well. The Provent a mite would not ship till the 22nd. I can Oder you some too, but this product is just as effective.

Dan
I don't think it could possible be just as effective. It says it cleans and deodorizes reptiles and reptile habitats. It says it HELPS eliminate problems associated with reptiles.
I will order the right stuff myself. I should have to begin with.
Ive got the crap all through my collection now.
I'm sorry I bought your snake. I take very good care of my animals and do not like dealing with infested animals.

Carlos
I apologize but you should have quarantined all new animals for at least 6 weeks, it's basic reptile husbandry. If mites arrived on your snake, it was my fault and I've tried to do right by you by paying and shipping you treatment supplies. With all do respect, Mites getting into your collection because you fail to
Properly quarantine your animals is on you.

He did not act quickly on this matter and after all of this I was very angry.
 
Magic said:
Dan,

I'm still reading all of what you posted, but if Carlos was trying to order you PAM off of Amazon, then he very well could have gotten a different "ship by" date than you.

Amazon is notorious for changing pricing and available to ship dates! I can put an in stock now item in my cart at 8am, and try to pay for it at noon, only find its price to have doubled and it not available to ship until the next week!

Even better, the actual merchandiser may have the product in stock on their website but the stock listed on Amazon may be sold out.
Click to expand...

Correct. I ordered the PAM off amazon with 2day prime shipping. When I checked the order number the following day it said it would not ship till the 22nd despite the fact I ordered it on 2 day shipping. The customer was freaking out about needing the treatment NOW.At that point I ordered another product that came very highly recommended that shipped that day on 2 day shipping so that he would have something to help him out until the PAM arrived. Both items were on order and the other mite product arrived within 3 days. When the customer received it he messaged me to complain that it wasn't PAM. At that point he became very combative and blocked any further messages from me preventing me from contacting him any further. At that point I cancelled the PAM order. I posted the complete correspondence screenshots from start to finish with nothing ommited per fauna policy on this thread so everyone can read it and make their own conclusions on how this was handled. I feel I went above and beyond to help the customer regardless of where the mites were picked up(the reptile shop I packed the snake in or in the customer home) and acted how I would have liked someone to treat me if I was in his shoes.
 
I'm having trouble following, you said

Dan W said:
The problem with how Carlos handled the situation is this
Click to expand...

Then you posted the entire conversation between the two of you.

And then...

Dan W said:
He did not act quickly on this matter and after all of this I was very angry.
Click to expand...

Could you point out when specifically he was not acting quickly enough, rather than just re posting the conversation that we've already read?
 
Both parties have admitted to making mistakes on either side. From what I've seen, Carlos has taken steps to try to cover his side of it. Is there more he could offer to do for Dan? Sure, but Dan hasn't really asked for anything in recompense, he's just angry that the issue happened at all and from what I can see, in his mind, there is nothing Carlos could do to make things better (please correct me if I'm wrong here).

Because people just are not ever allowed to make mistakes, and if they do, there's nothing they can do to make up for it.

Now unless someone else pops up saying they purchased an animal from Carlos with mites to show that this isn't just an isolated incident, I'm pretty satisfied that Carlos is probably not a "bad guy," but he is most definitely human.
 
Dan W said:
I do not have many animals affected by mites. I first said I had them in a couple of other cages and then a couple of days later I said I had them throughout my collection. And the snake was delivered at my home. I was gone when the snake was delivered and Carlos sent it to my wife at my home. My wife put the boa into a cage with another boa in it. She didn't know not to do that because she never does anything with the snakes. We then went out of town for a week. I have been in this hobby for over 25 years and this is the first time I have ever had a mite. I have never had anything wrong with my snakes. I have also never sold an infested or sick snake either. And like I said before, I paid for a boa that was suppose to be in excellent health and instead got a mite infested boa. Anyone who thinks it is ok shouldn't be in this business.
I don't think they sell the real provent on amazon. I called the manufacturers and he had a list of places that had it in. If Carlos wanted to get it to me he could have.
Gary considering the stupid comments you are making about how everyone gets mites and we should just deal with it shows you are on the Carlos fan wagon and no more trustworthy as far as the health and condition of your animals then Carlos is. Keep talking. Everyone is getting to see how you feel about the animals and that you think it's ok to sell infested snakes. I'm so done with this conversation. It is not worth my time.
Click to expand...

You keep saying "sick" snake and at one point said "diseased". Again, please post that vet report that shows what type of sickness and disease your snake is carrying. Also your wife put the snake BAG in the cage. You took the snake out of the bag. Guess you forgot to mention it. Just sayin'.
 
Also, anyone who has been in the hobby for OVER 25 years would not mistake a sick and diseased snake as "quite the looker" or outstanding or even better than you thought.
 
Chris Kennard said:
You keep saying "sick" snake and at one point said "diseased". Again, please post that vet report that shows what type of sickness and disease your snake is carrying. Also your wife put the snake BAG in the cage. You took the snake out of the bag. Guess you forgot to mention it. Just sayin'.
Click to expand...

Glad you brought it up because it was bothering me that the snake is being referred to, by the OP, as "sick" and "diseased" when, as far as we know (or are told anyway), the snake only has mites.
A snake, with mites, does not, automatically, mean it is sick/diseased. No more than a dog with fleas, or a person with lice, automatically, means that they are sick/diseased or even dirty.
 
I copied our conversation and left it here for everyone to read so you can see where Carlos says he ordered the PAM from amazon but was told they couldn't ship it until March 22nd. That was another lie. Amazon does not currently sell PAM and didn't when Carlos supposedly tried ordering it. I have spoken with amazon and they say that Provent-A-Mite is not sold on Amazon or by anyone selling through Amazon. Just proving my point that he lied. I knew it was available from pro products and other sellers when he lied to me and told me it wasn't. That is why I became so angry. Check for yourselves. Go to amazon and try and order the original Provent-A-Mite. And if you still doubt what I am saying call them and ask them was it possible for anyone to try and order it and be given a shipping date. See what they tell you. It did not happen.
So I went ahead and call Pro Products. the manufacturer of PAM and they told me they do not sell to Amazon. Call them. So Carlos, exactly how did you try and order PAM from amazon?
 
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