GinoInDaBronx
Atticus Finch Clone
adoption fees
A $300 adoption fee for a pair of iggies???? Dan, you have got to be kidding me!!!!
A $300 adoption fee for a pair of iggies???? Dan, you have got to be kidding me!!!!
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Wendy Griffin- HORRIBLE WOMAN!
- Thread starter Manhattan Herps
- Start date
riverjop
Feather Ranch
hey...............pssssss......I think this thread is spinning out of control?
Manhattan Herps
PROUD Christian
the iguanas i no longer have they have been adopted
i felt they where worth that much to me gino, and i didnt want them going to some kid who knew nothing about them
the tarantula had recently escaped and was killed by our super, i had it for 5 1/2 years
and the 2 ball pythons i still have, but i took it up with some officers that my father knows and they say its fine as long as i dont take them outside
i shouldnt be the one explaining things here...
i felt they where worth that much to me gino, and i didnt want them going to some kid who knew nothing about them
the tarantula had recently escaped and was killed by our super, i had it for 5 1/2 years
and the 2 ball pythons i still have, but i took it up with some officers that my father knows and they say its fine as long as i dont take them outside
i shouldnt be the one explaining things here...
LotsaPetsGarfHt
New member
No Dan you shouldn't!
Dan,
You've handled this rather well for a 15 year old. My son Mark is 15 and has spent nearly his entire life around all sorts of critters. He breeds Leopard geckos, Western Hognose snakes, and helps me at the shop. Marks knowledge impresses many adults (me too!), not only the customers at the store but many of the breeders we see at the shows we attend. Why am I bringing up Mark?
Well its like this, If Mark had recieved that Dragon he would have done exactly the same thing. Sending it right back in the conditition it was in was sure death, it looks to me like at that point you knew that and wanted to do what was best for the animal. A visit to a vet would have been the thing to do, but if you don't have a good herp vet nearby what good would that have done? It would have cost you money, and the lizard was probably beyond help by that time.
I think Wendy should have and it sounds like she agreed you should keep the lizard for a few days before either sending her your leopard gecko or sending the dragon back. Its too bad that you had to post this thread, but its a good thing that you did since she would have trashed you like she tried to in the thread she started.
She keeps harping onthe fact that you are under 18, and may be breaking local laws by keeping some illegal animals, what you have to understand is she is desperate, any one can see she is wrong and while you might not have handled this perfectly she's trying her hardest to make you look bad.
As for the high adoption fee on the Iguanas, I have done that sort of thing too. I have a pet shop, and DO NOT sell lots of baby iguanas. I do sell quite a few adult iguanas. Why do you suppose that is? Well I take in ANY unwanted iguana and try to find them good homes. One recent animal I had had no more than 2 toes on each foot, and multiple burn scars, mites, and other skin problems. Most sane people would have refused to take the animal, but she was so sweet I had to help her. Many looked at her and asked her price $150.00 but there were no takers. I finally found her a suitable home and lost money by sending her home with someone for $25.00. I could have GIVEN her away, but then she has no value. I don't know what you got for your iguanas and don't care but you did the right thing in my eyes, YOU probably kept them out of the hands of someone that wanted a big reptile and didn't know anything about them.
Wendys not replied for a full day as near as I can tell so maybe now we can let this slide off the 1st page of the BOI. She can crawl back under her rock and life will go on.
I am very disappointed in that no one has been able to answer my question about the hole and the bowling ball. If anyone has the answer please e-mail me privately and let me know.
Dan,
You've handled this rather well for a 15 year old. My son Mark is 15 and has spent nearly his entire life around all sorts of critters. He breeds Leopard geckos, Western Hognose snakes, and helps me at the shop. Marks knowledge impresses many adults (me too!), not only the customers at the store but many of the breeders we see at the shows we attend. Why am I bringing up Mark?
Well its like this, If Mark had recieved that Dragon he would have done exactly the same thing. Sending it right back in the conditition it was in was sure death, it looks to me like at that point you knew that and wanted to do what was best for the animal. A visit to a vet would have been the thing to do, but if you don't have a good herp vet nearby what good would that have done? It would have cost you money, and the lizard was probably beyond help by that time.
I think Wendy should have and it sounds like she agreed you should keep the lizard for a few days before either sending her your leopard gecko or sending the dragon back. Its too bad that you had to post this thread, but its a good thing that you did since she would have trashed you like she tried to in the thread she started.
She keeps harping onthe fact that you are under 18, and may be breaking local laws by keeping some illegal animals, what you have to understand is she is desperate, any one can see she is wrong and while you might not have handled this perfectly she's trying her hardest to make you look bad.
As for the high adoption fee on the Iguanas, I have done that sort of thing too. I have a pet shop, and DO NOT sell lots of baby iguanas. I do sell quite a few adult iguanas. Why do you suppose that is? Well I take in ANY unwanted iguana and try to find them good homes. One recent animal I had had no more than 2 toes on each foot, and multiple burn scars, mites, and other skin problems. Most sane people would have refused to take the animal, but she was so sweet I had to help her. Many looked at her and asked her price $150.00 but there were no takers. I finally found her a suitable home and lost money by sending her home with someone for $25.00. I could have GIVEN her away, but then she has no value. I don't know what you got for your iguanas and don't care but you did the right thing in my eyes, YOU probably kept them out of the hands of someone that wanted a big reptile and didn't know anything about them.
Wendys not replied for a full day as near as I can tell so maybe now we can let this slide off the 1st page of the BOI. She can crawl back under her rock and life will go on.
I am very disappointed in that no one has been able to answer my question about the hole and the bowling ball. If anyone has the answer please e-mail me privately and let me know.
Tokay_Dude said:
I think you should explain, because it goes to show your character.
It is worth explaining why you say you own Iguanas currently, and your mom says you no longer own Iguanas.
I then do some digging and find out that you asked $300 for an ADOPTION and requested local pick up. Your reason for selling these animals that you stake your reputation on, is that you no longer have room. Why are you acquiring more animals if you don't have room for beloved pets?
Explain how smart it is selling an animal that is illegal for you to own, and requesting it be picked up at your home where it is illegal for you to keep it.
The tarantula that escaped, well that's exactly the reason the law exists in NYC. The Department of Health is not as concerned with your health as they are with the health and nuisance factors resulting from the escape of exotic animals.
The fact that your tarantula got loose requiring a superintendant to kill it amazes me on several levels.
Your statement that keeping Ball Pythons is fine as long as you don't take them outside.... it sounds to me that you are saying it's fine as long as you don't get caught.
Irresponsible.
You don't own a petstore, you live in an apartment in a city where it is illegal to keep many of the animals you keep.
And you are knowingly defying the law, with your mother's full consent and assistance.
I'm sorry to come down on Dan so hard. But nothing about this hobby bothers me as much as people who bargain hunt for breeding stock and then aren't prepared to deal with sick or deformed animals responsibly.
Dan's case bothers me a little bit more, because he cites years of keeping reptiles illegally (since 10 or 11 years old) as evidence that he knows what he's doing.
Wendy is disgusting for the way she treated her dragon. I have said this multiple times. But Dan blinded himself to all the details because he was so desperate to get a good deal on breeding stock.
He ignored the picture of the unhealthy dragon, because he wanted to believe it was a good deal.
He failed to bring the dragon to the vet, because he wanted to believe it would start eating.
Dan made some serious errors in judgement. Dan is not out anything.
Wendy lost out on the deal, but in reality she didn't lose anything.
This thread never should have been dragged out for any length of time.
As for the bowling ball, I think it would eventually come to rest at the earth's core, causing massive volcanic explosions to destroy life on earth.
LotsaPetsGarfHt
New member
Steven, you make many good points but....
If the worse thing Dan ever does is own illegal herps in an apartment building, in NY well thats really not so bad is it. Its probably better he's home playing with illegal herps than out in the street getting into God knows what. Is it right, no I'd still rather see him keeping herps than buying or selling drugs, drinking or destroying someone elses property, or doing any number of things that are far more serious.
Yes he thought he was getting a good deal, but I need to cut him a little slack here, he is 15 and yes you can see from the photo that the dragon is skinny, but take a look at the spin Wendy put here for us, can't you imagine the sales pitch she made?
If the worse thing Dan ever does is own illegal herps in an apartment building, in NY well thats really not so bad is it. Its probably better he's home playing with illegal herps than out in the street getting into God knows what. Is it right, no I'd still rather see him keeping herps than buying or selling drugs, drinking or destroying someone elses property, or doing any number of things that are far more serious.
Yes he thought he was getting a good deal, but I need to cut him a little slack here, he is 15 and yes you can see from the photo that the dragon is skinny, but take a look at the spin Wendy put here for us, can't you imagine the sales pitch she made?
Bringerofdoom
New member
steven this thread isnt about tokay and what pets he owns or doesnt own anymore its about wendy and and the beardie. quoting ad's over 2 months old isnt currently owning is you ask me....
Bringerofdoom
New member
i also agree with john, there are alot more illegal things a kid at 15 could be upto. if he owned a couple of pets that were outlawed i dont see it to be that big of a deal. from the looks of it he was trying to get rid of those too.
Manhattan Herps
PROUD Christian
17 here guys, lol
Bringerofdoom said:
You're right, but this thread isn't 2 months old is it? Dan clearly stated that he currently owns the animals.
Maybe he didn't get his $300 asking price.
They have been illegal since June of 1999, that's almost 5 and a half years. Was he trying to get rid of them for that long too? At 10 years old, when the law came into effect, Dan's mother made the decision to break the law. Dan now capable presumably of making his own decisions continues this trend of knowingly defying the law, with his mother's consent.
Why is it not about the animals he seeks out?
He is bargain hunting for breeding stock.
Selling (i'm sorry 'adopting') family pets for 'lack of room,' offering game systems, walkie talkies, and car stereos for pairs of animals....
Making a trade for an animal that as pictured appeared unhealthy.
Wanting the animal to be healthy so badly that you insist on keeping it to see it eat, but not bring it to the vet when it arrived in your care on deaths door...
Dan's bargain hunting led him to an unhealthy animal, which was such a good deal that he pushed forward with the trade.
It just so happens that this trade was with an adult scam artist. Does this vindicate Dan?
These are the kind of dealings that Dan enters into in an effort to establish himself as a business.
Bargain hunting for live animals is almost always going to lead to heartbreak on a personal level.
When it comes to a business dealing with live animals, choosing the bottom of the barrel in overall quality to use as breeding stock is a wonderful way to shoot yourself in the foot.
riverjop
Feather Ranch
Dan I feel for you!....I'll tell you one thing for sure I could never live in a city like that! I might as well live in germany in 1944!
LotsaPetsGarfHt
New member
Sorry Dan....
You better watch out you'll be 18 some day (just think then you can get stuff from Wendy again). Just stay out of trouble. No more of those illegal herps, OK promise me now. No drugs, alcohol, guns, or unprotected sex either, ok promise me now.
I will not keep illegal herps in NY.
Write that 500 times
Steven,
I have paid much more than that dragon was worth for 1 leopard gecko, how was that such a great deal? Looks to me like he wanted the dragon, and she wanted the leopard gecko, It was probably a reasonable trade if BOTH animals were healthy. I got some Pattern less albinos awhile back and paid way way more than I would have for a dragon like the one she was offering even if it had been healthy, and OMG the lavender Tremper albinos, should I go on? Don't you think that possibly both parties thought it was a reasonable trade, until the dragon proved to be sick? It doesn't look too lopsided from here.
You better watch out you'll be 18 some day (just think then you can get stuff from Wendy again). Just stay out of trouble. No more of those illegal herps, OK promise me now. No drugs, alcohol, guns, or unprotected sex either, ok promise me now.
I will not keep illegal herps in NY.
Write that 500 times
Steven,
I have paid much more than that dragon was worth for 1 leopard gecko, how was that such a great deal? Looks to me like he wanted the dragon, and she wanted the leopard gecko, It was probably a reasonable trade if BOTH animals were healthy. I got some Pattern less albinos awhile back and paid way way more than I would have for a dragon like the one she was offering even if it had been healthy, and OMG the lavender Tremper albinos, should I go on? Don't you think that possibly both parties thought it was a reasonable trade, until the dragon proved to be sick? It doesn't look too lopsided from here.
Bringerofdoom
New member
wow and to think all this time wendy's thick skull, still cannot asorb CRAP.....
like i promised wendy, i guess i have to show you again what you did. scince i dont call this a false statement
Alias47
Statistic
I didn't read all 55 pages of this immense and overanalyzed thread...but since every person who owns a reptile in the northern hemisphere has made a comment...I figured I better...or I might get ostracized and burned at the stake by this incredible witch hunt.
By the pictures and information (and the reaction by Wendy) I would personally conclude that Dan got screwed with a completely unhealthy animal.
Through no fault of his own it died (although he COULD have taken it to a herp vet...if one was available, as far gone as this beardie apparently was when he received it...it would have been useless...making THAT accusation a moot point)
It was a SERIOUSLY overstated animal.
Dan didn't lose out on anything since he never shipped the geckos.
Sounds like a huge amount of bandwidth lost on a case of a neglected beardie with nobody losing out (other than Wendy...who didn't have to dispose of the Beardie she killed)
Like I said...my perspective.
By the pictures and information (and the reaction by Wendy) I would personally conclude that Dan got screwed with a completely unhealthy animal.
Through no fault of his own it died (although he COULD have taken it to a herp vet...if one was available, as far gone as this beardie apparently was when he received it...it would have been useless...making THAT accusation a moot point)
It was a SERIOUSLY overstated animal.
Dan didn't lose out on anything since he never shipped the geckos.
Sounds like a huge amount of bandwidth lost on a case of a neglected beardie with nobody losing out (other than Wendy...who didn't have to dispose of the Beardie she killed)
Like I said...my perspective.
serrasalmus
New member
Regardless, Wendy has proven herself to be one of the most horrible people in the herp world. She attempted to scam a 15 year old kid, and got caught. Then, she's been following him around the boards attempting to make him look bad, because he exposed her as a liar and a fraud.
Dan, you have more maturity and knowledge than Wendy could gain in her entire lifetime. I give you a LOT of credit.
Wendy, there are lots of things I would like to say to you on this forum, but since I'm cheap and don't wish to pay Webslave $10, SHAME ON YOU, SHAME ON YOU, SHAME ON YOU.
I personally will make sure to contact ANYONE who is THINKING about doing business with you with the link to this thread.
You can't threaten me for slander either, as I'll just be showing them your own deluded ramblings.
Do you actually believe what you're saying, or do you think that you can actually dig yourself out of the hole to China that you just dug?
Dan, you have more maturity and knowledge than Wendy could gain in her entire lifetime. I give you a LOT of credit.
Wendy, there are lots of things I would like to say to you on this forum, but since I'm cheap and don't wish to pay Webslave $10, SHAME ON YOU, SHAME ON YOU, SHAME ON YOU.
I personally will make sure to contact ANYONE who is THINKING about doing business with you with the link to this thread.
You can't threaten me for slander either, as I'll just be showing them your own deluded ramblings.
Do you actually believe what you're saying, or do you think that you can actually dig yourself out of the hole to China that you just dug?
Manhattan Herps
PROUD Christian
Bargain hunting LMAO, if i have things i need to get rid of why not ask for a trade? you crack me up steve
your starting to get to me now steve, so im leaving this thread alone
i've already explained enough about the SNAKES that i keep, i no longer have the iggys or tarantulas GOT IT?
you just keep stating the same things over and over..its getting old.. and so is this thread. so im done, hopefully this page will go to the 3rd page and actually stay there
your starting to get to me now steve, so im leaving this thread alone
i've already explained enough about the SNAKES that i keep, i no longer have the iggys or tarantulas GOT IT?
you just keep stating the same things over and over..its getting old.. and so is this thread. so im done, hopefully this page will go to the 3rd page and actually stay there
Dan, I have not posted in 9 days.
Why do you feel the need to reply and boost the thread up by saying that you are not going to post anymore and hope it sinks back down? Why not let it continue to sink as is?
But since you directed your post at me.
You've explained that the snakes are "probably okay as long as you don't take them outside."
You no longer keep tarantulas because the superintendant of your apartment killed your tarantula when it escaped.
And you no longer keep Iguanas as of a few months ago, despite saying at the beginning of this thread that you still own iguanas and that should prove you are capable of caring for your reptiles.
Please don't try and make yourself into some sort of martyr, because you have kept animals illegally for the last 5 years.
When you are offering your old used toys for breeding stock and stating "any morph will do" how does this not come across as bargain hunting?
You want the world to think you care for your animals. But you are not responsible.
You are looking for cheap breeding stock. You make trades for animals that have visible physical health problems. You don't care what kind of animals you recieve, as long as you can breed them.
You don't bring your animals to the vet when they are sick.
You buy and you steal geckos from PetCo.
You just don't concern yourself with the quality of your animals as long as you are getting a good deal.
We've been through this before Dan Quinn.
I had to publically call you out for your stating your intention to breed a gecko with a deformed jaw.
Why do you feel the need to reply and boost the thread up by saying that you are not going to post anymore and hope it sinks back down? Why not let it continue to sink as is?
But since you directed your post at me.
You've explained that the snakes are "probably okay as long as you don't take them outside."
You no longer keep tarantulas because the superintendant of your apartment killed your tarantula when it escaped.
And you no longer keep Iguanas as of a few months ago, despite saying at the beginning of this thread that you still own iguanas and that should prove you are capable of caring for your reptiles.
Please don't try and make yourself into some sort of martyr, because you have kept animals illegally for the last 5 years.
When you are offering your old used toys for breeding stock and stating "any morph will do" how does this not come across as bargain hunting?
You want the world to think you care for your animals. But you are not responsible.
You are looking for cheap breeding stock. You make trades for animals that have visible physical health problems. You don't care what kind of animals you recieve, as long as you can breed them.
You don't bring your animals to the vet when they are sick.
You buy and you steal geckos from PetCo.
You just don't concern yourself with the quality of your animals as long as you are getting a good deal.
We've been through this before Dan Quinn.
I had to publically call you out for your stating your intention to breed a gecko with a deformed jaw.
Since it may appear that I have been biased in this thread against Dan Quinn, let me offer a more specific example of my issue with his decisions:
This is a gecko that Dan has presented in the past as an adult female breeder.
Note the deformed lower jaw.
Here is the thread in which I called him out on his intention to breed this animal:
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=37842&perpage=5&pagenumber=1
I informed him that it was unethical to breed an animal with a deformity because it could be indicative of underlying health problems and could also be genetic.
He assured me that he purchased it from a good friend (see where I'm going with this statement? It sure leads into my previous arguments that Dan Quinn jumps on 'good deals' without concern for the quality of his purchases) and thus it was not a problem.
Similarly, another thread I will need to dig up to reference is one in which Dan Quinn showed off a pair of malnurished subadult African Fat Tail geckos that he rescued and was housing together. When questioned by another forum member as to why he would rescue a pair of unhealthy animals that were sexable as male and female and house them together, Dan Quinn replied that he knew what he was doing and that the poster should not offer unwanted advice.
I do not consider Dan Quinn to be a responsible keeper, regardless of how many years he successfully housed iguanas illegally in his mother's nyc apartment.
I just demonstrated two cases where Dan knowingly purchased or otherwise acquired subpar animals and did not display responsible behavior. He bought a deformed gecko to breed. He rescued a pair of malnurished geckos and housed them together which surely was a source of undue stress and could not possibly allow him to provide the individual attention that such unhealthy animals required.
And he traded for a bearded dragon that as pictured prior to agreeing to the trade was unhealthy.... but this case has been beaten to death already.
This is a gecko that Dan has presented in the past as an adult female breeder.
Note the deformed lower jaw.
Here is the thread in which I called him out on his intention to breed this animal:
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=37842&perpage=5&pagenumber=1
I informed him that it was unethical to breed an animal with a deformity because it could be indicative of underlying health problems and could also be genetic.
He assured me that he purchased it from a good friend (see where I'm going with this statement? It sure leads into my previous arguments that Dan Quinn jumps on 'good deals' without concern for the quality of his purchases) and thus it was not a problem.
Similarly, another thread I will need to dig up to reference is one in which Dan Quinn showed off a pair of malnurished subadult African Fat Tail geckos that he rescued and was housing together. When questioned by another forum member as to why he would rescue a pair of unhealthy animals that were sexable as male and female and house them together, Dan Quinn replied that he knew what he was doing and that the poster should not offer unwanted advice.
I do not consider Dan Quinn to be a responsible keeper, regardless of how many years he successfully housed iguanas illegally in his mother's nyc apartment.
I just demonstrated two cases where Dan knowingly purchased or otherwise acquired subpar animals and did not display responsible behavior. He bought a deformed gecko to breed. He rescued a pair of malnurished geckos and housed them together which surely was a source of undue stress and could not possibly allow him to provide the individual attention that such unhealthy animals required.
And he traded for a bearded dragon that as pictured prior to agreeing to the trade was unhealthy.... but this case has been beaten to death already.
LotsaPetsGarfHt
New member
Oh Steve....
So whats the Crack about him "buying and stealing geckos from Petco" about? DO YOU KNOW FOR A FACT HE HAS STOLEN GECKOS FROM PETCO?
Nobody thinks the kids perfect, he's obviously used poor judgement, but why are you making this case against him? Are you Wendy or a friend of hers?
So whats the Crack about him "buying and stealing geckos from Petco" about? DO YOU KNOW FOR A FACT HE HAS STOLEN GECKOS FROM PETCO?
Nobody thinks the kids perfect, he's obviously used poor judgement, but why are you making this case against him? Are you Wendy or a friend of hers?
ChuUtena
New member
Steve is not Wendy's friend, but just trying to get a point across. What Wendy did was not a good thing, but when you're buying unhealthy looking animals, you shouldn't expect much out of them. Steve is just pointing out how often unhealthy animals are purchased by Tokay, just showing that there is a pattern. And how on earth could you actually think that he is Wendy? He's been a member for over 2 years, with over 1000 posts. That was a really a stupid comment to make...