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What is going on with the Spider and Mojave market?

Like Bobby (Varnyard) said in an earlier post, it's supply and demand. With Doms/Codoms, you get a male, get him up to size in one year, breed him to multiple normal females and presto! There are lots of people doing this and it floods the market pretty quickly. People need to realize too that the low prices these guys are advertising are really not out of the ordinary. Sure lots of people are advertising higher prices for pastels and spiders but they are not necessarily getting those prices.
The bottom line for me is that I've gotten into the morphs (and other snakes) I have because I really want to work with them. I know when I buy ANY snake (even a recessive morph) that it is likely that by the time I produce babies 2-3 years down the road the price will have dropped - maybe radically. If I can break even, I'm usually happy.
 
Yeah, in response to this:

Here's another ad.

http://market.kingsnake.com/detail.php?cat=32&de=425748

Female spiders at $1,175 shipped DELTA!

Same company with female pastels for $600 shipped!

http://market.kingsnake.com/detail.php?cat=32&de=425752

Personnally I think those are inferior pastels but with a low pricetag like they have, it will just cause others to drop the price to compete.

Too many are jumping on the bandwagon and dropping prices.


This guy has a terrible reputation and has to advertise animals like that just to try to bait people. I doubt he sells much of anything and he's NOTHING to worry about. I actually did a trade with him and initially thought he was cool and his reputation was undeserved but then I realized his customer service was the worst I've ever seen and he's basically just in this for money to spend at the bar, I think. When I see his ads now, I just laugh at how bad they are. My subscription to the BOI expired and I never renewed it so I figured this was a good chance to write what I'd like to write on there. A lot of people should see it since "the market" is always a headline grabber.
 
hold your ground people. The longer you hold your prices higher up the more theyre going to realize how much money theyre losing. I feel for ya and i hope it all ends up alright.

I dont wanna see this happen to the ball python market. its just a shame.
 
Mooing Tricycle said:
hold your ground people. The longer you hold your prices higher up the more theyre going to realize how much money theyre losing. I feel for ya and i hope it all ends up alright.

I dont wanna see this happen to the ball python market. its just a shame.
Click to expand...

I agree that holding to a decent price is important, I also think we should see more graded pricing on Morphs when their numbers increase. But a market free fall can be avoided as long as people don't panic.

I've seen crazy low-priced animals that (IMHO) were still to much to ask, I wouldn't buy a Pastel that doesn't look like one, would you? I think a graded price system may work out to everyone's benefit. What do you all think about graded prices for morphs as more of them are produced? -Deb
 
Even with low prices, I won't buy something unless it pops out at me and I get that "I have to have it" feeling. I have a deposit on a pastel male from Evan, but I'm only going through with it if one really stuns me. He knows that too. I expect the best when it comes to snakes I buy, and if I have to pay a little more or wait a little longer, then so be it. Take my stripe obsession for example...I got a lot of trade offers for striped ball pythons when I had my weird khaki/burgundy girl up for sale...but I'm super-picky and don't want them unless they're exactly what I like. I paid a good chunk of money for Diego, and all he is is a big, fat, striped normal. But damn if he wasn't worth it to me and I feel so glad I went for it every time I look at him. The same goes for Spoon, Misty, Java...every snake I have.

I know I'm not the only person out there like this, so all the bigger breeders/sellers need to keep faith in the buyers like me...and hold their prices where they belong for the quality animals they have.
 
I think the graded pricing is already starting...but some people just aren't really good at it yet, lol. Some of these people with the ugly a$$ pastels really seem to think they have nice animals. People with the better stuff seem to be holding their ground - at mid/high market, or slightly above - and still sell their stock. I think/hope that this trend will continue, and the market prices will run their natural (and, pretty much, expected) course.

Jen - I completely agree. I have passed on a lot of pastels offered at good to great prices...solely because the animal didn't match the look I want. Color, pattern, the whole package. When I saw the male I purchased, I made a verbal agreement right away; then sent a deposit to hold him, pending other purchases from that seller. Right after that, I found an absolute STUNNER for about twice the price...even though I really don't need two male pastels, I'm considering that purchase as well, because he is THE ONE, lol.
 
I know...I put the deposit on one of Evan's hatchlings because I really liked how his adults looked...then I saw this one posted a month or so later and I just about fell over:

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/pp_classifieds/showproduct.php?product=24392&sort=1&cat=10&page=1

That pastel is THE ONE...I have spoken to Josh a lot of times about him (he's a Marine in NC). That pastel gives me that feeling of desperation that I absolutely need it and just have to figure out a way to get it...the feeling I've had with all my snakes. I mean, it's so intense that I'm about going crazy because I can't get the money together and he can't take trades or payment plans (he's headed off to be a Drill Instructor at Pendleton). It's almost like if I don't get that one, I don't want any of them. :bawling:
 
Funny - I had that feeling of impending doom as I clicked on the link...afraid that you wanted the same one I did. Luckily, it isn't. If I make the purchase, I will post a pic so everyone can drool....until then, no, because I don't want anybody else to get any bright ideas about buying it :D
 
Jen, That is just NUTS.

Too many lately are trying to beat each others prices.

Here's some news for you that I found disturbing.
Petco will start selling pastels next year. They can't even care for normal BP's and now they are going to start carrying morphs. Pathetic.
 
You want to know what really ticks me off.
I was recently told I got ripped off because I paid more than the current low prices for this snake since it doesn't matter what a pastel looks like, it will still make nice babies.

3d37d1ce.jpg
 
as long as we are showing off ours...here are mine
(Steve, I saw another spider for sale today and thought of you...not quite as spotted/patterned as the one you posted, though. btw, if you make any comments about how ugly mine is, I'm gonna come over there and kick you in the shins))
 

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LOL. :) :) :)

VERY NICE!

Those are what I mean by nice animals. That pastel isn't all brown and you can tell it's a pastel. The spider has the spider pattern and the high white sides. Those are what they are supposed to look like. Congrats on getting them.
 
BTW Harald,
I think I know where you got that pastel. :)
I thought about getting another when I saw them but decided not to since I already had one and the wife would have killed me if I got another.

The only morphs I am allowed is my ghost, the pastel, the spider, and the last will be an albino (at least until I hit the lottery LOL).

I spent too much in the past few months to be able to get any more snakes except the albino for a while (unless I want to be single again and probaly lose them all in the settlement anyways :rofl: ).
 
I got that pastel from Greg Power (Boa, Inc)
actually, that should read getting - shipping should be next week. we held off because I was contemplating another purchase

I have a female pastel coming from Steve Gooch.

The female spider is from Eric Sandoval.

And unless they don't make the grade, a male spider is coming from Evan Stahl...I doubt that, though. He says they are very very nice - awaiting pictures.

Due to an especially hectic schedule, and some much needed personal time being taken, I'm figuring possibly as late as early/mid August before they are all here. Will do new pics once the gang is together

*edit* The hectic schedule is, in part, my own doing...but I gotta pay for this stuff somehow, lol
 
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That's who I thought the pastel was from. :)

My spider is coming from Al (NEWreptiles on here) it will be a little bit before she arrives though. Heck, I have a lot of animals I am waiting on. It's going to be a big week when they all arrive.

The heat postponed the shipping of the pair of Bluefields I bought from Ed Clark and I am leaving for Florida next week so no deliveries while I am gone. I know what you mean about it being August until things arrive. It may end up being September for me. LOL.

I hate seeing the empty tubs but they will soon be filled. :)
 
:>off_to<:
More Bluefields??? Didn't you just have your other ones up for sale?
What else are you getting (I'm done shopping, officially out of money after this little spree, lol...I'll have to live vicariously through my online peers)

Back to the topic at hand.
 
Well , no one will want to hear this , but I am going to say this anyway.

First , Steve , I wanna say the best statement I have heard on a while was the one you said about the Spiders. Your right , Spiders should not have really any "alien" spots , pretty much defeats the purpose of the name spider.. eehh??

Anyways , back to what I think people wont like to hear from me.

ALOT of the reason I have noticed over the past few years why people get paniced is because of threads in forums just like this. People throwing up posts with the theme "the sky is falling". You would be suprised how it gets to MANY people ...

Another thing I see on alot is people posting these kind of threads , that don't even own these animals ???? what concern is it to you ??? As long as people lik ethat keep doing this sort of thing , dont be surprised if nothing changes.

Like I said , this was in no way going at Steve or Harold or really anyone els e, because I believe you 2 guys have made some really intelligent posts.

Im up for discussion on this all the time , so anyone who wants to talk about it , feel free to PM me , call me , email me ...
 
Steve & Derek,
I got curious about the pattern "expectations" for spiders. Since I am hardly an aficionado, I don't know alot of the details of BP morphs. My first stop was, of course, Next World's hunter's guide....no entry for the spider, though. So I went to Ralph Davis' site. Nothing mentioned under spiders, but under bumblebees, I noted this statement:
NERD said:
As with Spider Balls, Bumbles exhibit 3 different pattern types – “classic,” “barbed wire” and “reduced.” At this time it is too early to tell what each type will mature into.
Click to expand...
 
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