Which Fool Should I Vote For? Bush or Kerry?

[Ken Harbart]

Kerry at worst will do no harm...

That is, of course, if you classify further erosion of the Bill of Rights, rasing taxes, increasing dependancy on government, more senseless "hate crime" legislation, continued government endorsement of racial & sexual discrimination, and the weakening & demoralization of the US military as "no harm."

Now then, I believe I owe you a few details regarding Kerry in Vietnam. Kerry was a reluctant warrior, so to speak. His first trip to Southeast Asia didn't bring him anywhere near the mainland or combat.

Kery volunteered to return to Vietnam on a swift boat. It is important to note that the reason he chose swift boat duty was because (at that time) it was a cushy, non-combat detail. Much to his chagrin, the role of swift boats changed shortly after he arrived in country.

Kerry's first Purple Heart was awarded under dubious circumstances. Essentially, Kerry showed up holding a piece of an M79 grenade (which he had just fired, oddly enough) and pointing to a scratch on his arm and demanded a Purple Heart. His commander didn't feel a Purple Heart was warranted, but Kerry kept pushing the issue until someone appeased his sense of entitlement.

Although Kerry's second Purple Heart was for a similarly trivial scratch, his third was indeed earned.

Fast forward to Kerry's leaving Vietnam... his transfer was not automatic. He requested it, using his dubious Purple Hearts as the vehicle to facilitate his return home.

His actions when he returned home, such as characterizing American troops as war criminals (which he now denies saying) are pretty well known.

The cover of Kerry's book, "The New Soldier" is rather distasteful not only because is mocks the Marines at Iwo Jima, but it is also demonstrates disrespect for the flag of our nation.

Sorry, but this is not the man I would have lead our nation.

 

[dwedeking]

you classify further erosion of the Bill of Rights

What do you call the patriot act?

The point Brian was making was that Bush is able to accomplish at least some of his agenda. While Kerry would be weak enough due to the political climate of the congress that he would not be able to accomplish any of his agenda.

In my opinion both are a danger to our society and country, but there is not an alternative candidate that stands for the freedoms first envisioned by the founding fathers that has the financial or political power to be a threat to the two parties (that are in reality so similiar as to be one).

 

[Ken Harbart]

Dan,
I never said that the BoR wasn't being eroded by the current admin. Rather, I was stating that the assumption that "Kerry will do no harm" is erroneous, even with a Republican-controlled Congress.

 

[Ron Hurst]

I agree with the notion that kerry will do no harm.
We will never harm an animal rights activist, a terrorist, a liberal with an anti American agenda, and God knows he would never harm the environment (even though he claims he is against SUVs but at the same time he owns 3. When questioned about this flip flop Kerry replied, "I dont own them, they are family cars".
Someone wake this idiot up and tell him that he is a part of his family! Kerry will vote that a manger scene at Christmas is illegal, but a murdered baby has no rights. (He voted against the Lacy law.) Kerry would say that a gun in the hands of a law abiding citizen is more of a threat than biological weapons are in the hands of a terrorist. Yeah I want this flip flop protecting me.


At least Bush has the balls to take a stand and stick with it. Kerry however when addressing Israel says "I support the wall in Israel protecting its citizens". Then when addressing Palastine stated that "I see no need for this wall." When speaking to abortionists says, "I believe a woman has freedom to abort an unwanted child, but when speaking to a more conservative croud says, "I believe life begins at conception".

Me too, and that tells me that Kerry believes in the right to murder the innocent. The point cant be argued that if life begins at conception, as Kerry says he believes, and he is pro abortion, he has no problem with murdering a child. No wonder he voted against Lacy's law!

Even his wife while sitting right beside himon national tv said she would give up all of her money for her late husband back. She also made Kerry sign a prenump. Well, if Mrs. Kerry would rather have the late husband than the riches, but didn't trust Kerry with the riches, what should that tell us. Simply put, if she dont really want or trust him, maybe we shouldn't either.

 

[repzoo44]

You Bush folks are absolutely amazing. "At least Bush has the balls to take a stand and stick with it." Yep , and so did Hitler. Bush only cares about his own agenda and disregards everything and everyone else. And whoever was talking about Kerrys Vietnam service; are you serious? You would rather have some half wit who skipped out on the war AND his National Guard service be your leader. And now it looks like he is interested in Iran. Great, get those bombs ready. We've got to fight them evil doers. Im not saying that Kerry is so great, but Bush is taking this country in the wrong direction, and very quickly. I can only hope his time is close to an end.

EP

 

[Ken Harbart]

You would rather have some half wit who skipped out on the war AND his National Guard service be your leader.

If the alternative is a man who demands a Purple Heart for a scratch that apparently didn't come from enemy fire, uses that Purple Heart as part of an excuse to tuck tail, slanders American troops upon his return, mocked veterans of a previous war, showed disrespect for the American flag, and has consistently sought to deny the men and women of the US Armed Forces the tools we need to effectively do our jobs... HELL YES!!!

 

[AIPCQRC]

The conservative alternative= VOTE CONSTITUTION!

I got news for you folks.

Bush/ Kerry- Tweedle dee or Tweedle dum?

Doesn't make a difference!

I suggest those that want to restore our Constitution should vote for a True Man of Principles-

Mike Peroutka!

The ONLY candidate that would put the People and America First!

This election, I ain't voting for no Skull & Bonesmen!

 

[Ron Hurst]

You Bush folks are absolutely amazing.

Thank you.Thank you very much.

"At least Bush has the balls to take a stand and stick with it." Yep , and so did Hitler.

Typical liberal comeback. How would anyone with half a brain cell compare Bush to Hitler. Seems to me its the left that doesn't support the Jews. Maybe Kerry has more in common with Hitler?

Bush only cares about his own agenda and disregards everything and everyone else.

And what agenda would that be? Oh yeah, the one about defending our country.


And whoever was talking about Kerrys Vietnam service; are you serious? You would rather have some half wit who skipped out on the war AND his National Guard service be your leader.

HELL YEAH!!

And now it looks like he is interested in Iran. Great, get those bombs ready. We've got to fight them evil doers.

Damn right! First Iran, then Hollywood!

Im not saying that Kerry is so great,

Noone will argue with that.

but Bush is taking this country in the wrong direction, and very quickly. I can only hope his time is close to an end.

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

EP

 

[dwedeking]

Typical liberal comeback. How would anyone with half a brain cell compare Bush to Hitler. Seems to me its the left that doesn't support the Jews. Maybe Kerry has more in common with Hitler?

Actually if you look at the way Hitler was able to centralize power in Germany there are many simularities to how things are run now, especially when looking at the patriot act. With the burning of the Reischtag (Sp?) Hitler quickly stepped in to "protect" the german people from the communist people (the ones he and the nazi party blamed for the burning). He jailed german citizens without trial (sound familiar? ) and called it "protective custody". I don't think Kerry is any better on civil liberaties but Bush is far from innocent.

Just for the record the common german citizen was as complacent (sp?) about the loss of freedoms as the common american citizen is now. Each right was taken away piece by piece as a reaction to a threat to the government (either real, imagined or made up).

 

[Ron Hurst]

[B

Hitler quickly stepped in to "protect" the german people from the communist people (the ones he and the nazi party blamed for the burning).

***However Bush stepped in, or was elected in to protect the United States citizen from the very real threat of radical Islam. Not that we had to place blame on them, they were proud of their attack on our soil. What was he suppose to do, give em one more chance to behave? We are indeed a country with enemies. As Americans, both republicans and democrats, our country was outraged by the attack on our soil. If Bush had sat back and did nothing, well the democrats would have accused him of not protecting our country.


He jailed german citize ns without trial (sound familiar? ) and called it "protective custody".

*** Again this is no comparison. Citizens were jailed by Hitler. Islamic Jihadist/ terrorists are jailed by Bush.


Just for the record the common german citizen was as complacent (sp?) about the loss of freedoms as the common american citizen is now.

*** I agree. Like our freedom to own our reptiles. Do you think that PETA are lining up behind Bush? Wrong my friend. In fact check the records and you will find the democratic party is the biggest supporter of animal rights extremist .
True Republicans are for big business, but hell, reptile breeding is BIG Business.

Each right was taken away piece by piece as a reaction to a threat to the government (either real, imagined or made up). [/B]

 

[dwedeking]

From a washington post article:

America's commitment to the rule of law was reaffirmed eloquently by the Supreme Court on Monday in two decisions limiting the Bush administration's powers in holding "enemy combatants." As Justice Sandra Day O'Connor bluntly wrote for the court: "[A] state of war is not a blank check for the President when it comes to the rights of the Nation's citizens."

The first case involved an American named Yaser Esam Hamdi. Born in Louisiana in 1980 and raised in Saudi Arabia, he was captured during the war in Afghanistan by members of the Northern Alliance and turned over to U.S. troops there. After interrogating Hamdi, the U.S. military concluded he was an "enemy combatant" who had supported the Taliban. He was held without charges at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, and then, when officials realized he was a U.S. citizen, sent to a naval brig in Norfolk.

Hamdi's father petitioned a federal court for the most basic of American civil liberties -- a citizen's right to know what he's accused of, and to receive a fair trial, before the government puts him in jail. The court embraced that basic right to due process and rejected the administration's claim that its warmaking powers override constitutional liberties. "An interrogation by one's captor, however effective an intelligence-gathering tool, hardly constitutes a constitutionally adequate factfinding before a neutral decisionmaker," O'Connor wrote.

The court's ruling in the Hamdi case helped restore the balance that the United States lost after the destabilizing shock of Sept. 11, 2001. Reacting to that horrific event, the Bush administration, with the support of many angry and frightened Americans, embraced the logic of total war. O'Connor's opinion firmly reasserted the primacy of law: "It is during our most challenging and uncertain moments that our Nation's commitment to due process is most severely tested; and it is in those times that we must preserve our commitment at home to the principles for which we fight abroad."

Full article found here: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A22189-2004Jul1.html

The administration was only chained in by the judicial system (good thing someone set it up that way). Just because he has an islamic name doesn't make the administration's policy any less damning to your rights as a citizen.

While I agree that defense of the US should be priority of the Commander In Chief's job it should not be at the cost of our freedom (doing that would complete the terrorists attack instead of protect us from it). My personal opinion is that Bush reacted correctly (from what was known at the time and with the understanding that hindsight can be 20/20) in dealing with the initial crisis. I think (again personal opinion) that the weak character of the president has shown itself in the last 2 years with the handleing of Iraq and the continued manipulation of the public to push through such legistalation as the patriot act).

I don't think Kerry is any better. We're stuck with choosing the lesser of two evils, not a pleasant thought at a time when the country needs a strong leader.

 

[repzoo44]

Ronnie, that was a very intellectually stimulating response. I was merely making the point that just because one takes a stand and sticks with it doesn't mean its a good thing. Do you realize that about 90 percent of the "terrorists" taken into custody were innocent. These people were just held without any justification for months and years. As far as Bush being elected to protect us from Radical Islam, thats just not true. 9/11 happened after he was elected by the majority of Amer......wait, no, he was declared the winner by the supreme court despite recieving fewer total votes. (Im not arguing with the results, our system is great and has worked well for 200 plus years, just a side note.) Do you really think a Democrat would have done nothing in response to the attacks? The bottom line is that Bush has been very irresponsible fiscally, politically and in foreign affairs. He seems to think he is morally justified in is actions and unfortunately people like you blindly follow him without questioning anything. Again, Kerry may not be the right answer, but Bush is definitely the wrong answer. Its time for a change. This forum is getting old and its pointless to keep arguing with ignorant people. You cast your vote and Ill cast mine.

EP

 

[t. larson]

Election/politricks

Here's all I need to say about MY thoughts on this years election and world events of the day. See the following link (it's at my website):

http://www.angelfire.com/home/thaneshomepage/indexR.html

If you have something to add or complain about, e-mail me via my website.

 

[t. larson]

thank you zoo...

Mark Merideth says:

"It is not that most conservatives are ignorant; it is that most ignorant people are conservative."

You believe what this numb nuts asswipe says ? I believe I have three times the education HE does and I'M CONSERVATIVE !


Back up what you're saying with some logic and truth rather than the typical stoned blathering and ranting typical of a left wing radical.


http://www.angelfire.com/home/thaneshomepage/indexR.html

 

[Alias47]

Personally, I am tired of the crappy choices offered to us by a two party system.

We are never allowed to choose the best person for the job, because we are so limited in our view.

I am also tired of having to vote for the lesser of two evils.

I will vote for John Kerry. I am not a big fan...I am unsure of his ability to lead our country...I do however see what GWBush has done with this country and I will NOT allow myself to let that continue.

He is stripping our personal freedoms and our constitutional rights away from us, one step at a time, and doing it in the name of "patriotism" and "security".
Taking away our freedoms in the name of "Freedom"??!?!??
Does this present a paradox to ANYONE else but me?

We should be rioting in the street, before Bush's goons come, take our weapons away, and ship us off in box cars to never be seen again.

It is coming people...he needs to be stopped...

Anyone with teenage children should be VERY afraid of GWBush.

If he is re-elected, the draft will be reinstituted next spring.

Your children will be shipped off to fight, against their will, because "He [Saddam] tried to kill my daddy" (George W. Bush).

We have no business in IRAQ.

Oh yeah, by the way...they are changing the Conscription Act to include girls as well as boys ages 18-26.

So now your daughters are going to be drafted along with your sons.

Voting for Bush will kill thousands of our children.
Voting for Kerry MIGHT do the same...but with Bush it's guaranteed.

If you don't believe me go to www.senate.gov and look up S89 or www.house.gov and lookup HR163

These are the resolutions that will have your children being drafted by March of next year. Boys or girls...oh, yeah...and college can't save them anymore. They will be sent regardless of education status. And another thing...a special extradition treaty with Canada is in the works...so no more dodging the draft and going to Canada. George would have done that if daddy wouldn't have gotten him a National Guard assignment that he never showed up for.

 

[Alias47]

Another thing...the president can extend the terms of current soldiers as long as he deems necessary in the defense of our country. Which means, since he has declared "war" on terror, our soldiers may be stuck in their obligations indefinitely.

This bill also provides a clause for a mandatory 2 year service for EVERYONE 18-26, unless they meet very specific criteria for release from their obligation.

Have fun Republicans...
Hope you can sleep at night after you vote for GW Bush.

 

[Alias47]

My bad...the bills have been introduced by the Democrats...

Who I personally can't stand either.


why can't we get someone who believes in guns AND the environment (makes sense that they would go hand in hand for those of us who are hunters)

Have medical marijuana, stem cell research AND strong business ties.

Don't tell me I flip flop either (the Repubs are good for that accusation).
I stated originally that feel the GOP is just the greater of two evils. I still feel that way...
Maybe the whole problem here is big government.
Getting ahead of the fact that it is supposed to be BY THE PEOPLE and FOR THE PEOPLE...not lying as much as you can about yourself and the other guy that you get elected, and then doing any damn thing you want.
Sorry...just got into a rant here...but I spose this is what happens when you have a political forum.

 

[CAV]

Your interpretaions of current military readiness are uninformedand incorrect.

Just curious: when and where did you serve to acquire so much knowledge and insight on military policy and manning requirements?

I don't know a thing about you but it is clear from reading your posts that you have no concept of military service or the way in which extensions of service actually work. There is no need for a draft and it is doubtful that we will ever again see one in this country short of global conflict. I am not basing this statement on election year political spin but on more than a decade of active duty military service. We are no more or less "overextended" than we have been since the start of the Clinton drawdown in the early 1990s. (A cut voted for by Kerry BTW). Regardless of force strength, this nation’s force defeated one of the largest land armies in the world with little more than 1 Army and 1 Marine Division.

You are letting you personal view of one man override rational thought. If you are going to post information in a public forum, I'd suggest that you at least make a basic attempt to verify the "facts" that you loosely throw around.

P.S. I can't even begin to imagine how you were able to throw support for the Democratic Party into a post advocating gun owner rights and the defense of personal freedom. That is simply remarkable!

 

[Alias47]

Like I said...lesser of two evils...I don't like EITHER of my choices...
but I refuse to vote for GW Bush when his regime has done more to undermine my personal liberties than any other in the history of our nation.

As for gun owner rights...I agree that the Democrat's will NOT protect those...but I fear...with all the "PATRIOTIC" controls on our personal freedoms in the name of "National Security", Goerge Bush's White House will not protect my ownership of firearms either.

BTW...if we walked in and took the 3rd largest land army in the world with barely any causualties, with only two divisions (I would have to assume you are talking about the Gulf War) why are we having so many problems now?
Is it because we don't belong there? Probably.
Is it because these people don't want us there? Definitely.
Afghanistan was one thing...and I see many other threats on our horizon that are much more important than Saddam Hussein...but "He tried to kill my daddy" is a GREAT reason to depose him, right?
Dick Cheney used to go have dinner with him in his palace...while dropping off the latest biological weapon samples.
We have placed thousands of our children in harms way for an idealistic little spoiled rich boy to make his personal vendetta.
Avenging his fathers name and finishing what daddy couldn't.

Do you actually dispute this?

What single piece of evidence do we have for being in Iraq?

Can you show me a link to one verifiable shred of evidence?

Please...I would like to see it...it would change my opinion of this entire matter.

 

[CAV]

Do you actually dispute this?

Every last bit of it. Why? It is simply incorrect.

I refuse to vote for GW Bush when his regime has done more to undermine my personal liberties than any other in the history of our nation.

I challenge you to name a single personal liberty that has disappeared as a result of the Bush presidency. Just one.

As for gun owner rights...I agree that the Democrat's will NOT protect those...but I fear...with all the "PATRIOTIC" controls on our personal freedoms in the name of "National Security", Goerge Bush's White House will not protect my ownership of firearms either.

Again, I challenge you to name a single piece of gun control legislation that the Bush White House has proposed. I can name dozens proposed by Kerry......

BTW...if we walked in and took the 3rd largest land army in the world with barely any causualties, with only two divisions (I would have to assume you are talking about the Gulf War) why are we having so many problems now?

No actually, 2 Divisions were the bulk of the forces for THIS Iraqi War, not Desert Storm. The problems now are not widely supported by the Iraqi people and are perpetuated by a few remnants of Hussein's loyalists and the Iranian and al Qaeda backed foreign fighters that have poured into Iraq for the sole purpose of preventing democratic elections. You see, democracy and secular government is in direct conflict with extremist Islamic ideology. This is exactly the reason that the West is despised by the Wahhabist movement. They see the West, led by the world’s only remaining superpower (U.S.) as the sole obstacle between remaining a regional movement and global control.

Afghanistan was one thing...and I see many other threats on our horizon that are much more important than Saddam Hussein...

He was a threat to the region’s stability. THAT, in and of itself, enough of a reason to depose him. Hitler was viewed as a harmless crackpot by the European powers until he invaded the Poland in 1939. How many millions of lives could have been saved it the world's powers would have dealt with him before he acquired the military means to impose himself on his neighbors?? Evidence of the Iraqi weapons programs has been well known and extensively documented for more than 20 years. Should we have just waited for him to use them again before acting??

but "He tried to kill my daddy" is a GREAT reason to depose him, rightDick Cheney used to go have dinner with him in his palace...while dropping off the latest biological weapon samples.
We have placed thousands of our children in harms way for an idealistic little spoiled rich boy to make his personal vendetta.
Avenging his fathers name and finishing what daddy couldn't.

I challenge you to provide a single scrap of evidence that supports even one of these accusations. This is as groundless as anything Mikey Moore could invent.

We are putting "our" children in harms way because it is right and necessary. (BTW, since you said "our" am I to assume that you are the parent of a service member?) Every single one of us in uniform knew the risks involved when we volunteered. I have spent the better part of my adult years training for a battle that I hoped would never come. But guess what? IT DID. No amount of diplomacy or coalition building would have prevented the current state of affairs. Look back at world history. This isn't the first, or even the second attempt made by the warriors of the Islam faith to bring down the West in just the last 600 years!

The use of pre-emptive military action has placed the Jihadist thugs on the defensive and sapped their ability to conduct further offensive actions both here and abroad. With hundreds of them streaming to Iraq, we no longer have to worry about that same hundred sneaking around in the U.S., waiting to pop us again. If they want to go be martyrs, fine by me. That is better than me or my neighbors plowing into a farm fields or metro skylines.

What single piece of evidence do we have for being in Iraq? Can you show me a link to one verifiable shred of evidence?

Take out a map of the world. Tell me what country lies immediately to the east of Iraq? How about due west of Afganistan? Watch the news? ....

I agree with you that Iraq isn't the greatest threat but it all has to start somewhere. There is another Islamic power that is hell-bent on ensuring that its neighbors aren't democratically elected and secular. MOF, they have been financially supporting active terrorist organizations for more than 25 years. They provide the starting off point for the fighters going into Iraq and Afghanistan and are the known financial backer of the al-Sadr militia. BTW, they are dead set on building "The Bomb" and using it. Wouldn't you rather be poised, ready and sitting on their borders long before that time arrives?? I know I damn sure would.

I don’t expect for one second that this one post will change your mind. One of the proudest days in my life was the day I voted for George Bush and I can’t wait to do it again. Think what you will, but it appears that that "spoiled little rich boy" is a pretty smart tactician executing sound military doctrine. Of course that is merely my "professional" opinion.........