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whos in line for a raptor

arrrgghh!

I don't think he would want this to turn into another "Giant" situation, so he (RT) must be telling the truth.
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I would never accuse Ron Tremper of being a 'liar'... I just think he flat-out doesn't know!
...but at least he never gave me dirty sanchez's
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Robin, if I recall... YOU gave ME a 'Dirty Sanchez!'
 
Golden Gate Geckos said:
Robin, if I recall... YOU gave ME a 'Dirty Sanchez!'
Click to expand...
I will no longer be reading this thread. I has taken a turn for the worse. Please excuse me while I go :>Puke<: LOL
Marcia, I'm going to geuss that you've been walking around for awhile asking people " do you smell something" ? :unhappy:
Now if you'll excuse me I gotta go :toiletcla .
 
How about this:

Someone tell me each and every known/identifiable trait that contributes to the RAPTOR morph.

Someone tell me the genetics behind each trait, are they inheritable, simple recessive, codom, etc...

Someone please then tell me what a 'het' RAPTOR would look like and what traits it would carry.

Someone please take this a step further and tell me what the odds are of producing a RAPTOR by breeding two 'het' RAPTORs together.


Thank you.
 
Well hopefully the aptor puzzle isnt too complex, we're currently breeding our male we recieved from A&M to quite a few females, we had many different types not involved in current pairings so we'll attempt every combination we can possibly think of.... Just for the hell of it..... :D

We will see what pops out, and what happens when they are bred back to the original male. Who knows.... Someone's gotta do it.... :D
 
I am not anti - Ron Tremper. I have great respect for the man. I would however expect everyone of these questions and a few others answered by him in writing before I would purchase an APTOR or a RAPTOR. After the great giant debacle I would expect that he would want to make sure he has proven out this morph so that there would be no doubts. Then again maybe not. Great post Steven. Things that make you go hmmmm.
E2MacPets said:
How about this:

Someone tell me each and every known/identifiable trait that contributes to the RAPTOR morph.

Someone tell me the genetics behind each trait, are they inheritable, simple recessive, codom, etc...

Someone please then tell me what a 'het' RAPTOR would look like and what traits it would carry.

Someone please take this a step further and tell me what the odds are of producing a RAPTOR by breeding two 'het' RAPTORs together.


Thank you.
Click to expand...
 
I respect the man for his work and accomplishments with Leopard Geckos, no doubt about it.

As for business\correspondence... well... thats another matter all together.
 
only ron can answer at this point .

but its a "carrothead","carrottail ", "super-tangerine" (hypo) , "patternless" , "giant" or normal - albino , w/ "ruby-eyes" (if its a RAPTOR). ALL said to be "mutations" . had to have a "P" in it to have the name ,right ? . not a patternless IMO since it has a striping and reverse-stripe pattern . but even patties have patterning to them when they are younger . i sorta like the name , and feel he deserved the right to call it whatever he likes , since they ARE almost without a pattern UNLESS the "patternless" is not recessive . ron has had this "patternless gene" for quite some time , and from his projects page ,was being used in this one , the blue- albino , and his SNOW project as well as the Ruby-eyes . before it was simply called "hypo- patternless orange" and the new name just gives it more interest i think .
 
groovygeckos said:
but its a "carrothead","carrottail ", "super-tangerine" (hypo) , "patternless" , "giant" or normal - albino , w/ "ruby-eyes" (if its a RAPTOR). ALL said to be "mutations" . had to have a "P" in it to have the name ,right ? . not a patternless IMO since it has a striping and reverse-stripe pattern . but even patties have patterning to them when they are younger . i sorta like the name , and feel he deserved the right to call it whatever he likes , since they ARE almost without a pattern UNLESS the "patternless" is not recessive . ron has had this "patternless gene" for quite some time , and from his projects page ,was being used in this one , the blue- albino , and his SNOW project as well as the Ruby-eyes . before it was simply called "hypo- patternless orange" and the new name just gives it more interest i think .
Click to expand...
Okay so you listed 6-7 traits that Tremper calls "mutations" Are all the traits assumed to be recessive? Prior to Giant I don't believe Ron has claimed any trait to be codom.
So what exactly is a "het" RAPTOR? How much does one sell for?

6-7 recessive traits.... an animal that is "het" for RAPTOR doesn't sound all that appealing to me.

het x het gives a 1 in 4 chance of producing a homozygous animal.
With 6 traits this equates to.... 1 in 4120 chance of producing a RAPTOR from an animal that is het for all the traits involved in producing a RAPTOR


Now granted you may consider that to make purchasing a RAPTOR a great investment, given the rarity that we are theorizing it also means that it is virtually impossible to outcross.... How do you introduce unrelated bloodlines, when you know you won't produce another RAPTOR from outcrossing until you've hatched thousands of eggs. There's no financial return on it, and small time breeders won't see 4000 eggs in their lifetime likely!

So no one will outcross
 
well

we know albino is recessive . some have seen results pointing to co-dom from giant X normal . a het Raptor is an Aptor "het" for Ruby-eyes , either a codom form or recessive trait as far as i know and have not spoke to ron about them for almost two months . he has not mentioned the sale of "het" Raptors. ide beleive that the hypo (super-tangerine ron calls it ) in them and the bright orange heads w/ unusual , highly variable patterning MAY be something genetic . but i would not assume more than 2 of the traits are an actual recessive . so buying the Raptor he is saying you get ALOT of color , albino , giant , hypo ,"patternless" , and the gene for solid-red eyes . picture is of my "super-tangerine " (hypo) striped -albino , that i bought before i even got my APTOR & "hets" . SO if APTOR is just a "super-tangerine" reverse-stripe , (meaning its hypo not a patt.-gene) i would get all APTOR babies from breeding her to my APTOR . correct ? she is even more patternless than he is lol
 
Dan (or anyone else that cares to take a shot at this), spell it out for me....

Trait by trait, line by line...

You take a RAPTOR and you breed it to a normal, a wild type leopard gecko. What do you get exactly? What is it that Tremper would promise the offspring look like? What traits would he promise the offspring were heterozygous carriers for?

Now you take two offspring from the above pairing, and you breed them together- what do you get? Please list all the possibilities. Line by line. Trait by Trait.
 
steven

im not saying i know what the genetics actually are behind them . just what i am told , and have NOT been promised ever . i bought my APTOR and "hets" just because i like them ,want to test the genetics and would like to hatch a few myself . and im just willing to take the risk that there is more than meets the eye . put it this way . what color do you think the solid-eyes are without the albino gene present ? also why do the 2 new solid-eyed morphs have the same type of spotted-striped pattern to them ? why has ron trempers website mentioned "super snow albino white w/ faint red patterning and red eyes " in the past until recently ? it does still say "snow- albino " though
 
guess i cant answer that

i would think the solid - eye gene would be what is most appealing , and if the "patternless" is genetic . only crossing to red-stripe line for now , bet they make some HOT stripes het albino . just have to see what happens . best way if you werent just test breeding would be to breed back to the APTOR or RAPTOR itself (if your looking for production and not results )
 
by results i mean

accurate findings of a recessive as opposed to co-dom ,incomplete dominance or selective bred , if you were to breed back to the original mutation . seems to me a simple- mistake that a person can make to assume recessive from breeding an assumed "het" to the homozygous - form (if it were co-dom "hets" and recessive hets give similar ratios that can easily throw you off )if im reading right , incomplete dominance is the one where there is a visible het , so a co-dom "het" is "normal" in appearance. het X het = 25%homozygous %75 "normal" , either way . anyone else read it that way ? so how do you find exactly which one it is ? its a bit confusing , only difference is w/ co-dom the offspring are ALL "hets" as opposed to recessive where youll get poss.-hets . so at a minimum would take a few years to know %100. sound about right ?
 
If there's any "Super Snow" in Ron's Aptors or Raptors....where the pictures of this "Super Snow" Ron used to incorporate into the "Aptor" or "Raptor" ??? As far as I know Ron only has a very yellow, black eyed leo with no uniform body patterns and a few black spots. No where near what a Mack Super Snow looks like! If Ron had this gene in his line, why introduce it in the form of a albino? doesnt the super snow with black eyes come first? considering the current market value of the "Mack Supers", wouldnt it be more advantageous to sell super snows first and then the super snow albinos? Non the less, sell the "albino snow" for less than what a genetic snow currently goes for...doesnt make any sense. well, actually it does...Ron does not have the same thing as a "Mack Super Snow" in his collection anywhere! That I'd be willing to gamble on.
 
hi Alex

it is also a designer w/slight striped spotted pattern (COULD be hypo or APTOR -"patternless") and a striped tail similar to the R/APTOR and Super-Snows patterning . i do not think ron has that exact morph . but he does have something very similar that coincidentally cropped up in 2 larger-breeders collections (as it is told by both ) ! i will keep my view that the pattern and eyes of all are related somewhow . is it possible john ever aquired rons geckos or vice versa ? i tried to e-mail mr. mack when i was looking to purchase snows ,to confirm the morph came from him , and any information he could give me about it as the founder , who NEVER even wrote me back . BTW alex still picking and choosing and blacklisting-individuals with the other breeders about who gets and doesnt get genetic snows ? remember you told me you would not sell to me ? wonder what thats about . i want just a female super -snow to make Giant Snow het Albino with , so let me know when your done sitting on the $3500 a pr. geckos in a year ( or 2 or 3) LOL
 
Hey Dan,
I'll make it really simple for you...you rub people the wrong way and you make a total ass of yourself...go figure why NO ONE wants to sell you any "Mack Snows" ! I count at least 3 people on this particular thread that you've pissed off !
 
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