YOU GOTTA CHECK THIS OUT on Kingsnake!

[HerpVenue]

nevermind...I will just add a second temp controller to this one that I already have set up. It is already basically in equilibrium.

 

[Stardust]

Hmmmmm, yes it is always nice to have a back up, you never know when one stops working properly. And it always seems to act up at the weirdest times.

 

[Darin Chappell]

Since this dissussion concerning the KS thread on the iguana forum probably really belongs in another section, I guess I shouldn't be propigating it any further. However, I just posted this on that forum:
________________________________________

I agree that the intial posting was not well written or thought out. Others' names were dragged into the "discussion" without their knowledge or permission as well.

However, others that responded to the discussion which developed were honestly trying to broach a subject that is emotional to many for varying (and sometimes divergeant) reasons. It is THAT aspect of the deleted portions that should be resurected, in my opinion.

As for me, I only keep corn snakes (though I have had lizzards before too). If, however, I had a site dedicated 98% to corns and only 2% to other species (including a care sheet on iguanas), and you saw that I had written something like . . ."iguanas will flourish on a diet of nothing more than goldfish, but only if they have no UV light exposure," surely you would all realize that I knew nothing of iguanas!

Furthermore, would you not also be skeptical of my expertise in the other areas I covered? I mean, if I am decidedly wrong about something about which you have definite knowledge, how could you ever trust me to be correct on issues about which you have no knowledge?

If I were an "expert" on cornsnakes, but felt the need to dabble in other species as well, and I put forth information that will cause animals to die in those species in which I have dabbled, I would like to think that I would change my care sheets or eliminate them entirely once such information had been brought to my attention. However, it would appear that not all "experts" are so conscientious.

I have tried to set forth my veiws as honestly and forthrightly as I can. I openly invite any remarks made in the same spirit.
________________________________


It was written in as politically correct a language as possible, while still being obvious as to whom it was addressing. I just wonder how long IT will be allowed to stay. We'll see . . .

 

[Stardust]

Darin,
I replied to your post and I did mix apples and oranges.

 

[Uffern]

Ritchie, what I meant by expertise, is that to me, many of you are experts. I would consider Rich Z an expert where corns are involved, for example. I realize that none of you will call yourselves experts, just as I will not call myself an expert, but the amount of knowledge I am sure most of you have concerning your respective animals would qualify to me as an expertise. As another example, my step father has been a mechanic since he was 16. He doesn't have some automotive degree, but I would call him an expert in auto mechanics.

That and I was just making fun of you.

 

[Adam Block]

Rich, for the $58 they cost I hook a Ranco up to EVERYTHING I run to shut it off if the temps go up too high. I had two on my swamp cooler, one ran the unit and the other shut it off if the temps went above 90 as I knew then the pump or water went out and the unit was just blowing hot air in.

I do the same with heat tape or anything like that.

Good luck buddy,
Adam Block

 

[highlander 13]

Ok i'm not completely up to date on this whole KS saga thats going on (even though i should be with as many threads that pertain to it) but from what i gather from most of the posts and from what i've noticed myself, Is that 1) its almost a crime to even try to type faunaclassieds link in any post (done tried and it said you couldnt post anything that had to do with this site) 2) Just the mention of anything against anyone one of Jeffs "friends" can probably get you at least a nasty e-mail if not banning, 3) Obviously trying to state info regarding a subject will automatically bring out the hounds,4)posting anything against the TOS or Jeffs site can/will get you banned.Now did i miss anything?

I go there quite often mainly for the forums but also have purchased a few snakes (mainly from Ben Siegel) but have pruchased from others as well.Sometimes it can get quite hairy and even downright distastefull but hey thats life right.I've had my share of arguments on there but i like to prove a poinht so thats the way i am,but not once have i ever said anything against anyone of Jeffs buddies or him,because for one i like to go there because there are some people on there that are actually helpful.Not only that but it helps to keep the herp community going.

Now the only thing that really bugs me about kingsnake is this whole grudge thing that Jeff seems to hold against people for seemingly trying to state their opinion on any given subject.I dont mind someone getting mad but to send out a blatant e-mail to someone saying that if you basically dont follow his rules to a T then you're out of there is going a little far even for a business like KS.Another thing that bugs me is this double standard issue that he seems to have with certain people.I know that there for a while that if you mentioned or posted a link to your website stating go to my website or something within that effect that Jeff would flip his lid and send you a nasty e-mail,But here lately it seems as though everyone is posting saying heres my new website come see it.Now to me if you are going to send someone a nasty e-mail for doing that then the same rule should apply for everyone right.

Does Jeff not realize that about 50% of the people on there are getting their business from small timers like me?Piss the small timers off and your big timers business means exactly zip.Without the little guys buying from the big guys then KS could kiss his business goodbye because then without the revenue of the little guy the big guys would have to pay more and i dont think that even Jeffs buddies would appreciate that now would they.

Oh and one other thing,The quote at the bottom of my signature really does qualify for most people especially Jeff and whoever wants to follow in his footsteps. Regards Bill McLeod

 

[Adam Block]

Bill, you missed these two things.

1) Jeff didn't like the content of one of my websites so it's my assumption based on the threats of a lawsuit that he called Rich with he did the same to my host and got my site banned/closed.

2) I've been using FedEx to ship for 5 years without so much as one question or flaw. Now, within a month of my dealing with Jeff I get an email from FedEx staiting I can no longer ship through them. Just to confirm that I called to see about a pickup and they told me they can't accept packages from me. You draw your own conclusion on this one but I know what my thoughts are.

3) Jeff loves other people's information being posted on this site. However, when somebody has an issue with him he hides and sends people to talk nice about him. He has yet to face or deal with any of this himself as he knows he's in the wrong.

4) Oddly, the free 42" Plasma TV went Jason, the one person in here avidly standing up for Jeff and KS. Notice Jason's lack of posts since winning the TV.


If you rub Jeff the wrong way I have the feeling he will stop at nothing to make you pay!

Adam Block

 

[highlander 13]

Ok now i'm up to par.So basically your damned if you do and damned if you dont.Another reason why i will never own a business.Peoples business ethics suck a konobi.But still like i said if you keep pissing the little person off then bye bye big business.Afterwards youre just a no named chump with a little experience.Now thats real good business policy and ethics........NOT.And to think he actually has friends, That will even back him up.I myself dont know Jeff personally and from what i've read from most people i probably wouldnt want to know him or even meet him because people like him really boil my blood. Oh well its all good until one day we clash i guess.In the meantime i'll enjoy it as long as possible. Regards Bill McLeod

 

[Steve Riley]

I have never cared for melissa kaplan. Far too many erroneous things have been brough to my attention by others, and she really does seem like she belongs in the same slot as peta and the humane society when it comes to the pet industry. What bothers me a lot is that iguana newbies get directed towards her information sources and are given the impression that she is some high authority, when in all reality she is like most of us here and just a hobbyist. I am not discrediting her totally, I would just caution against using her as a sole informative resource(never a good idea with anyone IMO).

 

[CheriS]

Several pages on here, many just rehashing the same things that fill several other threads already here and revived with what IMO is too much regularity.

The original poster, who obviously frequents both boards accomplished what he set out to......and it sure is not helping the situation between either or peoples opinion of others on either board.

It is amusing to see an idiot say jump and watch the "self proclaimed intellectuals" respond with how high..... then whine because their post was deleted with the thread, that should not have been there in the first place......or exclaim wide eyed innocence that they did not start it... so why was it deleted.

Can we just think about a few things here, before engaging "fingers connected to the so called brains":

A good portion of the problems come from others, not either site owners. Rich has committed this site to open opinions, in doing that he allows some things to stay that create more havoc for not only him, but others that visit this site and are turned off by the hatred they witness in so many posts.. it snowballs from there and certainly does not make people want to make a home here.

Many times they are personal agendas, others are guesses at best that are wrong (no MK did not delete the thread, she never saw it). I do not agree with the fact that Fauna Classified is banned being mentioned on KS's site, but the fact is it was, due to someone’s personal agenda on here, the way they went about it and Rich's commitment to open discussions, it grew from there....... perhaps we all need to rethink if there is not a better way to express our opinions... I am not saying your not entitled to them, like that post, its the way it was brought about.

as jbuncc said

kingsnake has the numbers, fauna has the potential, but due to its reputation, it will take a long time to re-establish the credibility necessary to draw the numbers (and info) necessary for a decent discussion about much at all. many of the users of this site have turned it into a giant social gathering (or lynching at times, whatever term you prefer) when it shouldn't be which has turned it into a joke.

Why can't the "intellectuals here see that you are the contributing to that opinion and harming the exact place you claim to love so much and the person that supports this site?

That post and responses, only dug the trench deeper, what the original poster intended to do, but also hurt this site more... can anyone be so blind to think that thread was deleted because it turned "smart"..... no... it was left up for a period to see if it could smoke out the problems from here and give them justification for their thoughts and actions about BOI........ and it worked., once that was done, it was deleted........ I DO NOT agree with this, it should have been deleted immediately, but it certainly did work.

The person that started it did for the sole purpose of stirring trouble, dysfunctional at best, as it accomplished nothing but bringing the troops from here to there and adding to KS justification of actions to this site.

Congrats, to the so called intellectuals... you showed how "smart" you were....once again

PS... should this thread read be on BOI or general discussions?

 

[Tony]

"A good portion of the problems come from others, not either site owners. Rich has committed this site to open opinions, in doing that he allows some things to stay that create more havoc for not only him, but others that visit this site and are turned off by the hatred they witness in so many posts.. it snowballs from there and certainly does not make people want to make a home here."

In this case the main problem has started with Jeff B. The reason these topics are coming up so frequently is because he is banning a lot of people. If you feel that being able to speak your mind is a bad thing, then you probably should not be here. If you like getting your post deleted if you are not with the "popular opinion", then kingsnake is the place to go. There is not hatred in these posts. It is just peoples opinions. We can't always agree. When arguements get heated people tend to attack eachother personally, but it is not hatred. Even after all the bad mouthing Jason did to the webslave. The webslave still stuck up for him when he was called a dick. That is why I like this site. We can speak our minds. At kingsnake you have to watch every word you say or you might get banned. Jeff should move to Cuba, I think him and Castro could be good friends.

Tony Alles

 

[WebSlave]

it was left up for a period to see if it could smoke out the problems from here and give them justification for their thoughts and actions about BOI........ and it worked., once that was done, it was deleted........

Interesting perspective from the folks at KS.

 

[Rob @ RK Reptiles]

Rich,

Was that blurb from an e-mail from KS to you?

 

[BrianB]

Rich,

Was that blurb from an e-mail from KS to you?

That's from the CheriS post a couple up from it in this thread.

 

[WebSlave]

As Brian pointed out, this was a quote from CheriS's post above mine.

What she wrote implicated she knew what was on the mind of the moderators at KS. How she knows this, I don't know, but if so, it is interesting to note the way they looked at handling that thread. Would seem to suggest that a provocateur had posted the original message in that thread, in my opinion.

Justification after the fact? Seems to me that cause and effect has gotten a bit scrambled in this issue, don't you think?

 

[Rob @ RK Reptiles]

All I know is my head is spinning from this thread.

 

[CheriS]

Webslave,

Please note, I said I did agree with the way it was handled, I though it should have been removed immediately as it was nothing but a flaming post by a troll and that is in violation of their user agreement, but....it was an AOL addy, as you know is impossible to trace to who started it from that first post. So was left to see what developed with it, and like I said, it worked.

I think you would agree that is not unique for boards to do in a situation like that, or when there are problem between two parties, to use whatever someone is foolish enough to offers as collecting more evidence. I DO NOT agree with it, I dislike it degenerated to this point between BOTH.

My point was, things like this do not help this site in bringing in more competent users, it hurts it. There has been much discussion on this board and thoughts to improve it and get it to grow as it does have a great potential...... but we, YOUR users, need to also be aware, we are reps of a community and there may be a better way to approach something and not be destructive in the process.

Tony:

The problem did not start with JeffB, it started over several post of Adam's on here, please go back and read those. If I remember many from here pointed out he pushed the issue to get banned, and himself admits was hotheaded, then started that website, KingSnakeSucks or something to that effect and grew from there.

Outside of Rich being banned and Fauna Classified or BOI not being allowed to be used in post there due to that.(which I also do not agree with) Other who where banned, to the best of my knowledge, did violate user agreements or TOS......... real simple, don't violate them! They can bitch that Joe Blow does the same thing and is not banned, but that does not change the fact they did violate it.

I do not agree with a lot of what Jeff or his webmaster or moderators do, but it is their site and their rules, I may not know the whole story, but what I have seen, I can understand why it happened.
quote:

If you feel that being able to speak your mind is a bad thing, then you probably should not be here. If you like getting your post deleted if you are not with the "popular opinion", then kingsnake is the place to go.

Where did I say speaking your mind was a bad thing? That's one big problem I see a lot, people tend to put words in others mouths, I said "perhaps we all need to rethink if there is not a better way to express our opinions... I am not saying your not entitled to them, like that post, its the way it was brought about."
.... its called rational and constructive... not dysfunctional and destructive

As far as going to KS to get my post deleted if I am not with the popular opinion.....In several years there, I have NEVER seen that happen, quite the opposite, I do see flaming post and trolls deleted which clearly they state are against their rules.

BIO/FC is a much more liberal ship, that’s the rules of this site, even to the point of harming it at times. I also like being able to come here and say things that are not allowed on other sites, but I still think there is a wrong way/right way to go about that and I think that WE, as responsible adults, wanting to see that stay available, but not cut the throat of the one supporting it, need to use some better judgment than what has been displayed here lately.

BOI/FC is unique it what it offers, there needs to be a place like this, it serves a greater need that more restrictive sites can not, on my personal site there are many links and references to it. But I try and follow the rules when on the other sites and certainly not go there purposely to incite more problems for site owners.

As far as the hated that I mentioned, spend some time going through post here of those that did bother to post responses here before they left, those are their words in their posts. The first time I posted here, I as turned off by a thread started by me that was turned into trash/ hate/ bashing by Seamus, that really had nothing to do with my post. The only reason I did not delete my sign on here then thinking this place was terrible, was the many emails and PM's I got from other users over it, that made me realize there were a lot of good people here and that was not the normal style. Not all users get to see that side, the only can go by the post they see..... I think we all need to be a bit more responsible in the wording of our posts

Also, I think jbuncc summed it up better than what I am saying
quote:

unfortunately, I think we are stuck. kingsnake has the numbers, fauna has the potential, but due to its reputation, it will take a long time to re-establish the credibility necessary to draw the numbers (and info) necessary for a decent discussion about much at all. many of the users of this site have turned it into a giant social gathering (or lynching at times, whatever term you prefer) when it shouldn't be which has turned it into a joke.

Is it so bad to ask that we try to rebuild that credibility and not alienate others more, especially the newer people that will be the making or breaking of what we all enjoy and seem to want?

 

[Uffern]

he only real disagreement I have with your post is this:

The problem did not start with JeffB, it started over several post of Adam's on here

The problem didn't start with Adam, it did, in fact, start with Jeff. It started with jeff trying to coerce Webslave into removing a post from this board. He used veiled threats to try to make Rich do with his website what Jeff wanted. Adam may have had a problem with Jeff, and brought it here, but the real problem started with Jeff thinking he could intimidate Webslave into compromising his principles and doing as Jeff wished.

 

[WebSlave]

Cheri,

Unfortunately, far too many people take disagreements as being bashing. When the same disagreement were to take place in person, body language, word inflections, tones, and all the other cues that nature has set us up for to keep from killing each other over conversations is missing. My style of writing is of the style that the shortest distance between two points is a straight line. MANY people interpret that as rude, harsh, acrid, and any other negative connotation you can come up with. But to me, all I feel I am doing is getting to the point as quickly and as directly as I can. I have, no doubt offended people this way.

With that in mind, let's look at what you have stated here:

So was left to see what developed with it, and like I said, it worked.

That is rather contrary to KS usual policies. Normally when an abusive post is spotted, it is deleted immediately upon discovery. Why was this one treated differently? I really wish I had seen the thread so I could comment from a bedrock of knowing what I am talking about, because all I am going by is what people have stated in this thread about it. But the implications are that the message started out as troll bait and pure garbage, which is when it should have been deleted. But it wasn't deleted until AFTER it became a more pointed and information providing (by what I have heard here) thread. This appears, to me, directly contrary to what a moderator would have as goals in controlling the content of the forum they are responsible for.

When you say "it worked", that implies, to me, an ulterior motive for allowing the thread to remain, and once it served the purpose, to then remove the evidence and anything that might have caused a contrary opinion to begin forming in the readers' minds. It certainly implies that it developed more quickly in uncomfortable directions than the moderators had anticipated.

But like I said, I'm only going through third party info on what that thread actually said, and I do apologize if my interpretation is all wet.

The problem did not start with JeffB, it started over several post of Adam's on here, please go back and read those. If I remember many from here pointed out he pushed the issue to get banned, and himself admits was hotheaded, then started that website, KingSnakeSucks or something to that effect and grew from there.

No, the problem did not start there. Adam was being severely trounced by nearly everyone posting in that thread he started. The general consensus of people making statements there was strongly against his opinion. Adam did nothing that was out of bounds on THIS site, and any reasonable person would have seen that Adam's direction was self-destructive and bound to be short lived. Matter of fact, several people pointedly TOLD Adam that.

Jeff has been there before, so this was nothing new to him.

The 'problem' started with Jeff's phone call to me. Any reasonable person would think it ludicrous that Adam Block was even a miniscule threat to Jeff's site. When Jeff called me, I thought for sure we were going to have a big chuckle over the whole thing, just as we have several times over similar instances when he found KS or himself mentioned on this site. Everyone is fair game if someone has a beef, and that's always been the way it is here.

Obviously something was different this time. Perhaps there is a lot more to it than we all know, but I certainly know that it wasn't the same guy I talked to that day that I've talked to off and on for the last few years.

So here's what we have as facts, and implications of those facts:

(1) Adam Block got Jeff Barringer mad at him and this resulted in Adam being banned from kingsnake.com

(2) Adam Block got mad at Jeff Barringer because of an issue with a refund of his money that he paid to have an account on kingsnake.com

(3) Adam Block related this incident on the Board of Inquiry, following the rules that are posted here and in a manner consistent with prior similar incidents.

(4) Adam Block got a domain name 'KINGSNAKESUCKS.COM' and set up an active site using this name.

(5) Jeff Barringer called me on the phone and demanded I remove the entire thread by Adam Block.

(6) Jeff Barringer told me that he was going to sue Adam Block in federal court and there was a real good change I would get named in that lawsuit because of this thread on MY site.

(7) When I refused to delete that thread, Jeff Barringer's closing comment that because of my refusal to delete that thread, 'BOI' and 'FAUNACLASSIFIEDS' would be banned from his site.

(8) Subsequently, someone contacted the domain host for 'KINGSNAKESUCKS.COM' and got the account closed.

(9) Subsequently, someone found out that Adam Block used FedEx as his shipper, and contacted said shipper to have his account terminated.

I haven't added an item about that thread in the KS forum, simply because I'm not exactly sure what transpired there and everything is hearsay at this point. If someone had captured the text so I could read it, I would feel better about knowing first hand what was said.

So you make up your own mind about what this all means.