ShipYourReptiles.com

[Khaman]

Residence to Residence shipping. Thats huge.

Several reps have told us that residential shipping has been on Fed Ex's mind for a while. If SYR does have than on their waiver I don't think it was a stretch to get done. The one thing I don't think is on their wavier is the guaranteed delivery by 10:30 to most addresses, I don't see Fed Ex backing off of that for live animal shipments.

 

[TripleMoonsExotic]

its in the email sent out yesterday by SYR. I cant link it from my phone. Im sure someone on here has it if they can please post it.

SYR's word means nothing in regards to official FedEx policy. It's no different then the claims that they had a UPS snake shipping waiver and no proof was provided.

 

[deborahbroadus]

its in the email sent out yesterday by SYR. I cant link it from my phone. Im sure someone on here has it if they can please post it.

Stephanie answered this one, and I agree with her assessment of the situation.

If someone "fudges" the truth once, they will do it again. I am not of a mind to believe whatever I am told, simply because "so-and-so" said so, when so-and-so has fudged before.

 

[bwt501]

USARK/PIJAC are the ones that will stand before Congress on our behalf. You wont, I wont. That was offered as a hypothetical. And the drunk driving analogy was way off base. DWI is deadly and is prosecuted everyday. A better example would have been Jay-Walking. And the always wanting to -see -something -in -writing argument is an easy win.

 

[Mister Internet]

USARK/PIJAC are the ones that will stand before Congress on our behalf. You wont, I wont. That was offered as a hypothetical. And the drunk driving analogy was way off base. DWI is deadly and is prosecuted everyday. A better example would have been Jay-Walking. And the always wanting to -see -something -in -writing argument is an easy win.

Maybe it just needs to be said slower for you: SYR cannot be trusted. They lied before with regards to their permissions/abilities to ship snakes with UPS. The encouraged their customer to break UPS' own shipping policies and Federal law to fly under the radar, because they did not in fact have the clearance they lied about having.

Based on all this, why on EARTH would I take SYR's word for it when they say that they have negotiated a "deal" with FedEx to allow third-party, residence to residence shipping? They haven't provided a single shred of evidence that they are allowed to do so, and lied before about being able to do so with UPS, just to drum up business.

These are not people I'm going to "trust", and neither should you. OF COURSE you should want to see this in writing!! Do you have an interest or friendship involving SYR?

 

[laterob]

Well-said. Furthermore, the argument that people are already shipping snakes illegally, so what's-the-big-deal is a little bent, also. The people-who-ship-illegally, I would guess, do not use FedEx as much as USPS or UPS, I would guess, because FedEx tends to be pricier. Now, SYR may provide a clearinghouse for more shippers of questionable integrity, thus dramatically increasing the frequency of issues FedEx will (likely) have to deal with, putting us all in jeapordy.

 

[Clay Davenport]

I've heard the saying making a mountain out of a mole hill, but this is like making Mt. Everest out of a grain of sand. I mean come on people, let's pull the bandwagon over to the side for a minute.

SYR is simply not going to endanger our ability to ship reptiles. The idiots who ship improperly are going to do so regardless of whether they go through SYR or not. You don't even need an account to ship a package period.
Anyone can go to any authorized shipping center and send a package. That's the main reason they exist in the first place, to provide a means for people who just need to send something to be able to without opening an account. Many businesses provide this service on the side. They do not have a reptile waiver, but they rarely if ever ask what's in the package either.
These businesses are themselves third party shippers and they exist in towns and cities all over the country because FedEx cannot maintain staffed locations everywhere.
In the town next to me there's a party store/ gift wrapping shop that does it, in the next town over there's a hardware store that does it. Any Tom, Dick, or Harry can go in with a package and ship it FedEx or UPS by whatever service they want. I use them myself as a drop off point for packages sent on my account, but years ago I had them process my shipments as well. Why do they provide this service? Because they get a cut of the shipping fees. You say FedEx wouldn't give up a portion of their fees to a third party? They've been doing it all along.
The whole idea that someone will be more likely to do it wrong through SYR because it isn't their account is a useless argument. Anyone wanting to skirt the rules doesn't need an account to begin with.

It's the people who ship this way that will endanger our ability to ship at all if anyone will.

In my opinion SYR is providing a valuable service. While I don't NEED them myself, I do enjoy the reduced rate I get when using them. There are people though who find themselves needing to ship a reptile once, for whatever reason. I converse with people in this situation regularly who locate me through my page on shipping. They understand the principles of packaging, but are having problems getting any of the shipping companies to accept their packages. Until SYR suspended shipping, I just referred them to thier website.
Expecting someone who needs to ship one box one time to go through the certification process is a little assinine to be perfectly honest.

If the actual truth were known, I'm sure there are many shippers who have completed the certification process, but I'd be willing to wager that less than half of those who regularly ship reptiles have done so.
I'm not defending those people, but I am saying that they will be shipping reptiles without certification in unmarked packages whether SYR exists or not. To suggest that SYR is facilitating this behavior is simply rediculous.

As far as those of you who so enjoy climbing on your pedestal and waving your FedEx waiver toward the masses insisting that those who choose to use SYR instead of getting their own are just lazy and putting our ability to ship at risk, have you ever shipped a reptile to someone's home?
Perhaps a few of you are diligent enough, or at least claim to be, that you have not knowingly sent a snake to someone's home, but that number would be very few. Sending to a residence is the same as sending without a waiver at all since the waiver is strictly for business to business shipments.
Any breeder who truthfully limits themselves to shipping solely to genuine business addresses will cripple their sales to the point that it will kill thier business, unless they are a wholesale only operation.
For that matter any breeder who is not a legitimate legal business, not just someone who uses a pseudo business name on the forums, is violating the terms of the waiver for anything they ship since it's a business to business agreement.

Breeders who are actual businesses are outnumbered overall dozens to one by the hobbyist breeders with a "business name". Until the waiver includes residential shipping, that fact alone has made the process of getting certified more or less pointless for the majority of people right from the start. You not only can't ship TO a residence, you can't ship FROM one either, it's business to business.

If SYR does indeed have a contractual agreement with FedEx to act as a third part shipper for reptiles including residential addresses, then their service would allow those who otherwise would not qualify to the letter of the waiver to still be able to ship.

If SYR can make a dollar while saving me one, why should I complain? Nothing will be done through SYR that wouldn't have been done otherwise. One company will not bring about the destruction of the hobby by eliminating the ability to ship. Our ability to ship is no more or less in danger with or without SYR.

 

[deborahbroadus]

I don't see a grain of sand, and I certainly don't see any Mt. Everest. My take on the posts is every one is concerned whether or not this is a reality or if we are supposed to sit on our finger again.

The concern is EVIDENCE. I certainly would like to see some. Without that, I don't need any headaches other than the ones I create for myself.

 

[2amcreations]

fantastic post Clay!!

 

[TripleMoonsExotic]

Anyone can go to any authorized shipping center and send a package. That's the main reason they exist in the first place, to provide a means for people who just need to send something to be able to without opening an account. Many businesses provide this service on the side. They do not have a reptile waiver, but they rarely if ever ask what's in the package either.
These businesses are themselves third party shippers and they exist in towns and cities all over the country because FedEx cannot maintain staffed locations everywhere.

Their is a huge difference between SYR and the authorized shipping centers...The authorized shipping centers physically receive the packages...They have the ability to open the package and verify contents and packaging...SYR does not...If SYR was more like an authorized shipping center, that would be great...They can verify all shipping requirements are met. That way if someone were to ship in a banana box or some other such nonsense it gets flagged immediately.

I'm not defending those people, but I am saying that they will be shipping reptiles without certification in unmarked packages whether SYR exists or not. To suggest that SYR is facilitating this behavior is simply rediculous.

They not only failed to provide the information on their videos and websites, but when questioned they played dumb. Several individuals also came forward and said they were told by SYR staff to lie about the contents of their packages.

As far as those of you who so enjoy climbing on your pedestal and waving your FedEx waiver toward the masses insisting that those who choose to use SYR instead of getting their own are just lazy and putting our ability to ship at risk, have you ever shipped a reptile to someone's home? Perhaps a few of you are diligent enough, or at least claim to be, that you have not knowingly sent a snake to someone's home, but that number would be very few. Sending to a residence is the same as sending without a waiver at all since the waiver is strictly for business to business shipments.

I have personally fully admitted to doing this because I wasn't aware that FedEx prohibited residential addresses...The waiver states "Business to Business delivery only" and I wasn't aware that businesses at a residential address didn't count. Since that being brought to light, I have changed my shipping terms and stuck to it.

If SYR does indeed have a contractual agreement with FedEx to act as a third part shipper for reptiles including residential addresses, then their service would allow those who otherwise would not qualify to the letter of the waiver to still be able to ship.

This is true. However, they need to provide the proof. I don't think anyone wants to see what happened with UPS happen again (or Repster). Further, if SYR did acquire a residential shipping clause, I'm going to push it for my shipping account as well (and I would recommend every other certified shipper to do the same).

I'm still rooting for ReptilesExpress to get everything straightened out with UPS now that SYR has moved on. I still very much like offering everyone options (plus UPS doesn't have a business to business restriction by default).

 

[Khaman]

For that matter any breeder who is not a legitimate legal business, not just someone who uses a pseudo business name on the forums, is violating the terms of the waiver for anything they ship since it's a business to business agreement.

Fed Ex's legal department and animal help desk both agree that shipping between two Fed Ex centers meets the requirement of business to business shipping so no violation there.

 

[RJK890]

First of all, I hate shipping reptiles.
I have driven as much as 550 miles one way (1100 miles round trip,) to pick up / drop off animals, just to avoid the shipping stress for both the animals and myself.
However, some transactions require shipping if they are going to happen.

I have / had an account with SYR / UPS and shipped several packages with no issues.
I have had customers that were FedEx certified print me out a shipping label on their account, and I shipped third party that way.
I have also shipped through FedEx without an account, and never had an issue.

SYR is trying to offer a service that could be helpful to many people in this hobby and maybe even a few people in the industry.

If you don't like SYR, do not use them to ship, and do not purchase from sellers that use their service unless they are willing to ship through FedEx, Delta Dash, or whatever service you feel is proper.

Contacting FedEx and making an issue out of this is not a very smart thing to do if you want them to continue shipping reptiles.
They may just decide that the reptile nation is more trouble then we are worth.

 

[2amcreations]

Contacting FedEx and making an issue out of this is not a very smart thing to do if you want them to continue shipping reptiles.
They may just decide that the reptile nation is more trouble then we are worth.

Exactly!!

 

[brd7666]

Contacting FedEx and making an issue out of this is not a very smart thing to do if you want them to continue shipping reptiles.
They may just decide that the reptile nation is more trouble then we are worth.

This is wrong. Contacting Fedex about this shows that we as an industry are concerned about the potential problems that could arise by allowing anyone to ship. Not everyone should be allowed to ship. Shipping is not a RIGHT, it is a PRIVILAGE. By allowing people who could care less about proper procedure to ship, the whole industry is at risk. UPS realized that they made a mistake by allowing third party shipping, and the same problems will happen if this is allowed through Fedex. UPS still allows the companies that are aproved to ship snakes through ship, this includes Pro Exotics for those of you who are not aware. So they were still allowed to ship snakes through UPS, when the comapny they owned ruined it for everyone else.

 

[Clay Davenport]

Their is a huge difference between SYR and the authorized shipping centers...The authorized shipping centers physically receive the packages...They have the ability to open the package and verify contents and packaging...SYR does not...If SYR was more like an authorized shipping center, that would be great...They can verify all shipping requirements are met. That way if someone were to ship in a banana box or some other such nonsense it gets flagged immediately.

This is just reaching. I've shipped MANY packages through authorized shipping centers and have NEVER had one opened or inspected in any way.
Just because they have the opportunity to do so in no way means they do. They accept the packages for the money it generates them period. They could care less what you are shipping as long as they get their cut.
There is absolutely NO difference in shipping through a ship center with no account and going through SYR.

How do you think the people using SYR get their packages to the shipper anyway? They either have them pick it up at their home, drop it off at an authorized shipper, or drop it off at a FedEx staffed location. Either way they would have no more ability to ship in a "banana box" using SYR than they would with any other method.

SYR is nothing more than a reseller of a service at a discounted rate. To actually get the package in the hands of FedEx still requires the same procedures regardless. It does not make it easier to ship inappropriately. Either a FedEx employee or someone at the authorized shipping center still has to physically receive the package.

I have personally fully admitted to doing this because I wasn't aware that FedEx prohibited residential addresses...The waiver states "Business to Business delivery only" and I wasn't aware that businesses at a residential address didn't count. Since that being brought to light, I have changed my shipping terms and stuck to it.

Then you have refused a lot of sales. 99% of the packages I send out are to residential addresses. I seriously doubt I am alone in that percentage.
It's a rare occasion I send something to a business and when I do it's going to someone's place of work.
If I only shipped to legitimate businesses then I might as well just quit shipping and vend at shows because I'd rarely ever make a sale I could complete.

I'm still rooting for ReptilesExpress to get everything straightened out with UPS now that SYR has moved on. I still very much like offering everyone options (plus UPS doesn't have a business to business restriction by default).

This doesn't make sense to me. You are rooting for Reptile Express to get things straightened out when they are doing the exact same thing you are complaining about SYR doing, acting as a third party shipper for reptiles. Does Reptile Express inspect packages before they are sent to ensure they are packaged properly? You faulted SYR for not being able to do that.
Do you have some sort of vendetta against SYR but not Reptile Express? When they were both operational they were providing the same service as far as I could tell, third party shipping of reptiles at a reduced rate.

Fed Ex's legal department and animal help desk both agree that shipping between two Fed Ex centers meets the requirement of business to business shipping so no violation there.

Unless of course the receiver is a residence, which in my case as I mentioned 99% of my shipments are.
The majority of people who do not ship regularly do not even know what an authorized shipping center is let alone where one is near them.
Those living in cities may have a staffed location nearby, but for a great many of us such as myself the closest staffed location is over an hour away.
The point is the vast majority of shipments are delivered to someone's home, in violation of the waiver everyone is so proudly proclaiming to possess.

 

[jimoo]

I can't comment on the Lacey Act since I've never read it, heard about it, sounds boring.

Wow, that is kind of scary. It amazes me that someone could have any involvement in exotic animals and not know about the single most important legislation relating to the animal trade this country has every passed. Unless you're not in the U.S., then it would make sense.

 

[Clay Davenport]

So they were still allowed to ship snakes through UPS, when the comapny they owned ruined it for everyone else.

Oh come on, they didn't ruin it for anyone. Before SYR ever existed there were VERY FEW companies that shipped snakes with the expressed approval of UPS.

UPS has never catered to reptile shippers. It was a rare occasion that they issued an official permit to ship snakes. While there's probably a few more, I can only think of three companies that had that approval and one of those got it rescinded for no apparent reason.
Don't act like we all had carte blanche to ship snakes with UPS until SYR came along.

 

[brd7666]

Oh come on, they didn't ruin it for anyone. Before SYR ever existed there were VERY FEW companies that shipped snakes with the expressed approval of UPS.

UPS has never catered to reptile shippers. It was a rare occasion that they issued an official permit to ship snakes. While there's probably a few more, I can only think of three companies that had that approval and one of those got it rescinded for no apparent reason.
Don't act like we all had carte blanche to ship snakes with UPS until SYR came along.

I disagree. They did ruin it for everyone else. By not having a certification process in place, they allowed anyone to ship under their name. Some of those who used the service would not have shipped if the service was not made available. Now because of the irresponsible actions of their customers, UPS is left with a sour taste in their mouths. Had there been tighter restrictions in place, this would not have happened. This is definitely a set back to say the least, for the reptile community.

 

[Clay Davenport]

I disagree. They did ruin it for everyone else. By not having a certification process in place, they allowed anyone to ship under their name. Some of those who used the service would not have shipped if the service was not made available. Now because of the irresponsible actions of their customers, UPS is left with a sour taste in their mouths. Had there been tighter restrictions in place, this would not have happened. This is definitely a set back to say the least, for the reptile community.

A set back how exactly? How is it more difficult to ship reptiles openly with UPS now than it was before SYR?
UPS has never accepted reptiles as a general rule and very rarely granted exceptions to that. It is no more restrictive now than it was before SYR ever existed.

Some of those who used the service would not have shipped if the service was not made available.

BS. No one requires SYR or any other account to ship. Perhaps a few who used SYR would have given up immediately had their service not been available, but it would be very few. There are many incidents of stupid shipping practices, hots being sent UPS, large snakes being sent in flimsy boxes and escaping etc, that happened long before there ever was an SYR, and as long as there are stupid inconsiderate people in the world those incidents will continue to happen with or without them.

 

[RJK890]

Contacting Fedex about this shows that we as an industry are concerned about the potential problems that could arise by allowing anyone to ship.

Right. I am sure that they are overwhelmed with the concern of the industry about potential problems that could arise from them allowing just anybody to ship. Because, I am sure the board over looked that in their year long negotiation with SYR.

UPS still allows the companies that are aproved to ship snakes through ship, this includes Pro Exotics for those of you who are not aware.

Just like FedEx would probably still allow companies that are approved to ship snakes through them to continue to do so if the SYR / FedEx program does not work out.

So they were still allowed to ship snakes through UPS, when the comapny they owned ruined it for everyone else.

If Pro Exotics and the other companies that were approved to ship snakes before SYR were / are still allowed to ship snakes through UPS, then I ask you, How did they ruin it for everyone else.