Info TRUTHS ABOUT THE HIDDEN GENE WOMA THAT ARE IN DIRECT CONFLICT OF KEVIN MCCURELY(NERD)

[Joe at PHR]

I think you have it wrong Dave, PHR calls their washed out pastels, mojaves, pastaves, pastel calicos, super pastels and super pastel calicos: WASHOUTS, not White Outs. Their washout has proven itself in several clutches over two years. (This year will be #3). It is not to be confused with Amir's labeled (Citrus White-outs), they are two completely different mutations.

Sloan Brothers- Great Job on the post! You guys are top notch and very professional

This entire thread has taken a 180 from the original post, I can understand why Kevin has so many people backing him, I would only expect that, as big as he is with Ball pythons and pockets as deep as they are.

Kevin- If you really want people to continue to look up to you, "Please" stop with your childish actions and name calling. My son read this thread and lost alot of respect he had for you from the way you responded on here and handled the situation. We are trying to pass this hobby on to our kids, lets make good examples for them, not act like grade schoolers.

Joe C- I believe you have quite a few breeder size Lesser females over at Clark's place. Would it be correct to assume there just may be a few more clutches cooking over there that were sired by your pewter HGW?

I can appreciate the nature of this post. IMO, I think we should all hit the pause button until additional clutches hatch out and the infamous soul sucker appears!

Get Sum I can't agree with you more. We are using a Pewter HGW and we have tons of lesser females and we will get lucky and just hit a 2 way with out the cinny or definitely a pastel soul sucker without a doubt. Since Kevin never put up any Cinnamon Soul Suckers or Pewter Soul Suckers no one has anything to gauge this by. The sibs that this snake is producing are tremendous and definitely have something going big time as well as most people know This. In fact, many people have tried to buy them. Our Sterling HGW speaks for it self.

Joe 23 made a great point as I still see no granite or granite crosses coming out of the GHGW crosses pictured in clutches by clients that have bought from Kevin. I am glad the Sloan Brothers posted as there GHGW that they aren't sure if it has granite in it or not? Thanks guys as well. It has the same markings as the ones I am producing period which no other snakes have. We will continue to disclose everything as we always do and clutches come out.

No one has ever seen any crosses come from a regular Woma with flames like this that the Dam originated from Kevin which he sold it to a facility directly which he has denied. The fact is it has flames and there isn't another one there like it. So I have no problem putting this on pause. I have no doubt that in the end this will end up just like the Whiteout / Washout situation which we are producing regularly. As a matter of fact, We just pipped another clutch that will be coming in a week with more whacked out looking animals in it. There will also be many Soul Suckers made this season from a lot of people with just regular lessers.

I also want add I only was talking to Kevin during this post for most part and he still hasn't answered the questions. Everyone is trying to say our Pewter Soul Sucker isn't what it is but all the other crosses say it is as will as the marking on the Sloan Brothers founding snake. Kevin he has claimed that Soul Suckers are out of the ordinary pink in the egg and then really color up. I have hatched pretty all pewter crosses with lessers and they are purple not pink in the egg and that is fat for those who are in the know. Plus all the other opalescent offspring we are producing with visual genetic markers that carry on through the crosses we produce.

To Be Continued Kevin you can count on it....

 

[saskia]

JOE AT PHR: Dit you never try your original Dame HG Woma with a lesser or butter?? That's what I'm asking you now for the third or fourth time??

 

[Joe at PHR]

JOE AT PHR: Dit you never try your original Dame HG Woma with a lesser or butter?? That's what I'm asking you now for the third or fourth time??

It was a lesser from RDR. I have several more clutches to be laid and now Clark is breeding the Pewter HGW to all of them. If you even look at a HGW or GHGW to a mojave or mojave cross that the Sloan Brothers put up, when it hits the offspring has a very similar reaction to a lesser HGW cross but just doesn't show it as well as the snake is much darker. Mojaves carry no missing gene either. We will have a lot of those clutches as well to be laid this season.

To Be Continued

 

[saskia]

It was a lesser from RDR. I have several more clutches to be laid and now Clark is breeding the Pewter HGW to all of them. If you even look at a HGW or GHGW to a mojave or mojave cross that the Sloan Brothers put up, when it hits the offspring has a very similar reaction to a lesser HGW cross but just doesn't show it as well as the snake is much darker. Mojaves carry no missing gene either. We will have a lot of those clutches as well to be laid this season.

To Be Continued

Okay thank you, thats nice, do you have pictures of your HGwoma X Ralph's Lesser cross?? And what year was that breeding?

 

[Temporalis_Enterprises]

Can you post a picture of the adult Pewter HGW?

 

[Joe at PHR]

Can you post a picture of the adult Pewter HGW?

On the post before this another person has this animals as we got the offspring from him. Kevin has seen this offspring before freaked out which he denys and we really even don't care as we know what we have.


Sure it looked just like it hatching pictured underneath. It has a pink opalescent neck that screams at you in natural sunlight with like 30 green flames on it. There isn't another regular adult pewter Woma that looks like this because it isn't a regular Woma cross as we already know. Plus I will post a pastel lesser sib from a HGW clutch as well.

Pewter Original HGW

Pewter Original HGW hatchling notice the opalescent sheen
http://s1268.photobucket.com/albums/jj573/jcap300/?action=view&current=HGWomaAd011.jpg

A patel Lesser Original HGW Sib screaming it has a gene in it as pretty much all the sibs do from our founding male.

More to come when we hatch more out. Thanks everyone

 

[joe23]

Well, I for one am very happy Kevin finally came to talk to us on a forum, I really hope to get some answers in this thread.

Kevin, I think you can not say one thing about the Platty Daddy gene and then say...we are not talking about that here....It's your own words, so please explain how a Lesser can have a platy Daddy gene without being a Platinum?

First you tell us:

**Originally Posted by NERD,Inc
As far as the Lesser stuff I think the HG Woma reacts with the Daddy Platty aspect of the Lesser Platinum..... as I understand from Ralph not all Lessers carry the Daddy Platty gene.... So, this is basically is what I think is happening...if the Lesser carries this hidden aspect then I believe it lines up with the HG Woma and makes Soul Suckers.**

Later you say:

**Originally Posted by NERD,Inc
This is not about Daddy Platty..... Ralph is the TOP SOURCE for that!!!!! He knows it better than ANYONE..... I am not the MR WIZARD of Daddy Platties..... Until I own that project and work through it I can only offer my OPINION!!!!**

Have you ever had Platinums out of breeding HG Woma X HG Woma??

When you say that you think the Platty aspect of a Lesser is working with HG you are apparently working with the platy gene for years now?? So you must know as much about it as Ralph does?

I'm not here to Bash you or anything Kevin but I really like to know what's going on....my partner tried calling you more than once when we purchased our Soulsucker from Craig...but you never had time to come to the phone and Andy claimed he didn't know....I send you E-mails from the link on your website but I never got a reply....
Only Raphy talked to me and helped me....but he doesn't know any more then we do...so he made the video with you that confused us even more, lol

That's why I'm really happy that you are here now to talk to us

Ofcourse I can find out everything on my own the coming years, but I really would like to know now......
Especially when I get lesser offspring of my SoulSucker....what should I call them? What do I tell my customers?? That's really really important to me..hope you understand!




***Topicstarter Joe: Please please please can you answer my questions I've asked you before in this thread??

***Joe23?? Please can you answer my question too??

i wrote saskia a pm but since this was brought up at the end of the thread again, ill say what i think.



in my eyes the soulsucker is a normal combo like the bee- its hg woma and lesser (doesnt matter if rdr lesser, sgr lesser, butter etc). in that combo are no hidden genes involved- from no side.

hg woma and lesser just react cool- like mojave and ghi.



hg woma x hg woma makes no platties- it makes pearls.


kevin posted in this thread that the soulsucker is a 1 in 4 combo like the bee.


if the hg woma would carry a het daddy gene (or a hidden gene which reacts similar) we would get a 1 in 8 ratio in the soulsucker and u couldnt get more soulsuckers from breeding a souluskcer to a normal.



as far as i understood it kevin thinks that because his lessers originally come from a platty breeding they carry a hidden gene- thats why he called em this way (and charges more for em). but this simply isnt possible. a lesser simply cant carry the het daddy gene without being a platinum in phenotype. a hg lesser would be a platty.


so hg woma has nothing to do with platty what so ever.

hg woma x hg woma simply gives u pearls.


as far as the granite goes- i really dont know. i looked at the pics kevin posted on facebook, but the difference between the once carrying the granite gene and the ones that dont is the dot in the neck- otherwise they look pretty similar to me.

a few of the hg womas the sloans posted had these neck spots also. i dont know if theyve granite in em, but if it would be a normal combo too- means only a few of the babies would show the phenotype (50% of the babies would statistically carry the granite gene).

again- if they do... i dont know.



as far as i understood it is this post about the hg womas which have changed over the years- that they dont look like the originals anymore. i personally think thats possible, but on the other hand do i think thats pretty normal. when u breed a gene over a decade speciafically for desired traits (more flames- more dots more weirdness) its clear that theyll dont look like the ones 10 years ago.

look what the gtp guys do- all their morphs (ok- not the albino) are based on selective breeding- and now for example search a pic from ella diablo.

the influence of selective breeding is so crazy huge.


so i dont take any sides here. i just like to get to the truth and i dont care on whos toes i might step on...

 

[Joe at PHR]

Sorry here is Pewter Original HGW Offspring

Sorry here is Pewter Original HGW Offspring

Plus a Pastel Original HGW that just shed out

I also want to add that all the offspring really lighten up with age and not darken as regular Woma crosses as you can see with the Pewter Original HGW.

To Be Continued and I will update more when we have more breeding data as we have several more of these clutches to be laid. I am out until then so everyone can take a break.... Thanks again

 

[Temporalis_Enterprises]

The Pewter HGW looks identicle to the Black Pewter non- Hidden Gene Woma's I've seen......

 

[Joe at PHR]

i wrote saskia a pm but since this was brought up at the end of the thread again, ill say what i think.



in my eyes the soulsucker is a normal combo like the bee- its hg woma and lesser (doesnt matter if rdr lesser, sgr lesser, butter etc). in that combo are no hidden genes involved- from no side.

hg woma and lesser just react cool- like mojave and ghi.



hg woma x hg woma makes no platties- it makes pearls.


kevin posted in this thread that the soulsucker is a 1 in 4 combo like the bee.


if the hg woma would carry a het daddy gene (or a hidden gene which reacts similar) we would get a 1 in 8 ratio in the soulsucker and u couldnt get more soulsuckers from breeding a souluskcer to a normal.



as far as i understood it kevin thinks that because his lessers originally come from a platty breeding they carry a hidden gene- thats why he called em this way (and charges more for em). but this simply isnt possible. a lesser simply cant carry the het daddy gene without being a platinum in phenotype. a hg lesser would be a platty.


so hg woma has nothing to do with platty what so ever.

hg woma x hg woma simply gives u pearls.


as far as the granite goes- i really dont know. i looked at the pics kevin posted on facebook, but the difference between the once carrying the granite gene and the ones that dont is the dot in the neck- otherwise they look pretty similar to me.

a few of the hg womas the sloans posted had these neck spots also. i dont know if theyve granite in em, but if it would be a normal combo too- means only a few of the babies would show the phenotype (50% of the babies would statistically carry the granite gene).

again- if they do... i dont know.



as far as i understood it is this post about the hg womas which have changed over the years- that they dont look like the originals anymore. i personally think thats possible, but on the other hand do i think thats pretty normal. when u breed a gene over a decade speciafically for desired traits (more flames- more dots more weirdness) its clear that theyll dont look like the ones 10 years ago.

look what the gtp guys do- all their morphs (ok- not the albino) are based on selective breeding- and now for example search a pic from ella diablo.

the influence of selective breeding is so crazy huge.


so i dont take any sides here. i just like to get to the truth and i dont care on whos toes i might step on...

Joe we are with you 100% and thanks for the honesty and now I am really out out until we can give more breeding data. I also want to add we disclose everything that goes on in our facility about our morphs to the public.

 

[saskia]

Okay thank you, thats nice, do you have pictures of your HGwoma X Ralph's Lesser cross?? And what year was that breeding?

Joe???

 

[Joe at PHR]

i wrote saskia a pm but since this was brought up at the end of the thread again, ill say what i think.



in my eyes the soulsucker is a normal combo like the bee- its hg woma and lesser (doesnt matter if rdr lesser, sgr lesser, butter etc). in that combo are no hidden genes involved- from no side.

hg woma and lesser just react cool- like mojave and ghi.



hg woma x hg woma makes no platties- it makes pearls.


kevin posted in this thread that the soulsucker is a 1 in 4 combo like the bee.


if the hg woma would carry a het daddy gene (or a hidden gene which reacts similar) we would get a 1 in 8 ratio in the soulsucker and u couldnt get more soulsuckers from breeding a souluskcer to a normal.



as far as i understood it kevin thinks that because his lessers originally come from a platty breeding they carry a hidden gene- thats why he called em this way (and charges more for em). but this simply isnt possible. a lesser simply cant carry the het daddy gene without being a platinum in phenotype. a hg lesser would be a platty.


so hg woma has nothing to do with platty what so ever.

hg woma x hg woma simply gives u pearls.


as far as the granite goes- i really dont know. i looked at the pics kevin posted on facebook, but the difference between the once carrying the granite gene and the ones that dont is the dot in the neck- otherwise they look pretty similar to me.

a few of the hg womas the sloans posted had these neck spots also. i dont know if theyve granite in em, but if it would be a normal combo too- means only a few of the babies would show the phenotype (50% of the babies would statistically carry the granite gene).

again- if they do... i dont know.



as far as i understood it is this post about the hg womas which have changed over the years- that they dont look like the originals anymore. i personally think thats possible, but on the other hand do i think thats pretty normal. when u breed a gene over a decade speciafically for desired traits (more flames- more dots more weirdness) its clear that theyll dont look like the ones 10 years ago.

look what the gtp guys do- all their morphs (ok- not the albino) are based on selective breeding- and now for example search a pic from ella diablo.

the influence of selective breeding is so crazy huge.


so i dont take any sides here. i just like to get to the truth and i dont care on whos toes i might step on...

Everything you are asking for has already been posted in the beginning. To Be Continued everyone can count on it .. As I recently sated, we will pick this up and continue when we have more breeding data. Thanks all and goodbye for now.

 

[saskia]

I'm sorry but I don't recall a picture of a Souls Sucker or pictures from that specific breeding?
I don't want to read all your posts over again, but what did I mis??
You say on the last page you did breed your original Dame to a Lesser from Ralph, I simply am asking you what the results were and if you have pictures from that breeding and what year that was...

I don't see what Joe23's post have to do with my question to you??

 

[Ghi Reptiles]

Sorry here is Pewter Original HGW Offspring

Sorry here is Pewter Original HGW Offspring

Plus a Pastel Original HGW that just shed out

I also want to add that all the offspring really lighten up with age and not darken as regular Woma crosses as you can see with the Pewter Original HGW.

To Be Continued and I will update more when we have more breeding data as we have several more of these clutches to be laid. I am out until then so everyone can take a break.... Thanks again

Nothing hidden gene woma there in your photos that I can see Joe...sorry. I've produced a lot of hidden gene woma animals...some with the granite showing and some not. Here's a pastel hidden gene woma granite to compare to your pastel hidden gene woma.

Mine

Yours

Your pastel animal looks like a normal pastel woma...I've seen a bunch of them for sale over the years. There are obvious differences between our two animals. Lots of breeders have tried the regular woma way out to make things like infernos and soul suckers and to date I haven't seen one made.
And looking at your original animal I would say not a hidden gene woma.

 

[Ghi Reptiles]

Hey Joe23,

I believe the granite gene is a separate gene that shows itself in different capacities. My original hidden gene woma granite yellow belly animal had a dot behind the head and that's it. He went on to sire everything from subtle granite combos to insane granite combos. I've also made a few granite normals from him (unless they were fluke granites with whacked out patterns). I've made normal hidden gene womas and granite hidden gene womas. Last season I made normal enchi hidden gene womas...no spot behind the head and no crazy granite pattern.

Regular womas have been out there for a long time now and I have yet to see anyone coming forward with soul suckers, infernos, enchifernos, angels of death, red spectrums, or anything close to them. I do believe the granite gene does influence the morph a great deal when it's present.

Just my thoughts buddy!

 

[ReptileJay]

Absolutely no way the Pewter HGW, or Pastel HGW you're posting pictures of are HGW Joe...

The pewter looks like a Pewter Woma... and the Pastel woma is simply that... There is NO indication of Hidden Gene anywhere there at all...

Also... You posted a picture of a Pastel Lesser HGW... how on earth would THAT work?? That is CLEARLY not a Pastel Soul Sucker.... (which is what a Pastel Lesser HGW would actually be).

This entire thing looks to be a combination of deceit and/or ignorance on your part Joe...

 

[NewEnglandReptile]

Well, I for one am very happy Kevin finally came to talk to us on a forum, I really hope to get some answers in this thread.

Kevin, I think you can not say one thing about the Platty Daddy gene and then say...we are not talking about that here....It's your own words, so please explain how a Lesser can have a platy Daddy gene without being a Platinum?

First you tell us:

**Originally Posted by NERD,Inc
As far as the Lesser stuff I think the HG Woma reacts with the Daddy Platty aspect of the Lesser Platinum..... as I understand from Ralph not all Lessers carry the Daddy Platty gene.... So, this is basically is what I think is happening...if the Lesser carries this hidden aspect then I believe it lines up with the HG Woma and makes Soul Suckers.**

Later you say:

**Originally Posted by NERD,Inc
This is not about Daddy Platty..... Ralph is the TOP SOURCE for that!!!!! He knows it better than ANYONE..... I am not the MR WIZARD of Daddy Platties..... Until I own that project and work through it I can only offer my OPINION!!!!**

Have you ever had Platinums out of breeding HG Woma X HG Woma??

When you say that you think the Platty aspect of a Lesser is working with HG you are apparently working with the platy gene for years now?? So you must know as much about it as Ralph does?

I'm not here to Bash you or anything Kevin but I really like to know what's going on....my partner tried calling you more than once when we purchased our Soulsucker from Craig...but you never had time to come to the phone and Andy claimed he didn't know....I send you E-mails from the link on your website but I never got a reply....
Only Raphy talked to me and helped me....but he doesn't know any more then we do...so he made the video with you that confused us even more, lol

That's why I'm really happy that you are here now to talk to us

Ofcourse I can find out everything on my own the coming years, but I really would like to know now......
Especially when I get lesser offspring of my SoulSucker....what should I call them? What do I tell my customers?? That's really really important to me..hope you understand!




***Topicstarter Joe: Please please please can you answer my questions I've asked you before in this thread??

***Joe23?? Please can you answer my question too??

I don't know anything about you calling me. I have not seen an email from you either. Breeding HG Woma x HG Woma is NOT GOOD! It makes PEARLS so I never do that!

I am unaware of anyone making Soul Suckers w/o the Lessers I use...... I would expect something to happen since my source of Lesser is the same as Ralph....but possibly another breeding.

ANY offspring from your Soul Sucker should be noted as ALL being able to repeat the Morph.

Kevin

 

[NewEnglandReptile]

The original point of this thread was to call me out and expose me. He had undeniable proof on what I have been doing. I am now looking on page 16 with confusion.

Joe it seems like you are trying to SMEAR the project and claim that you will be making lots of them....... you are publicly trying to devalue HG Womas and SOul Suckers. You are way out there and you are WRONG, you need think before you post!!!

You have done no one a favor but yourself and that is a STRETCH!

Let's see your first Soul Sucker yet alone the pile you and Clark plan to make!

 

[saskia]

Hi Kevin, Not me personal but Theo my partner tried calling you, but he got Andy (I think his name is) instead more than once..
Theo asked to speak to you personal several times but it was not possible...
He did ask for you personal because your employe said he could not answer the questions, he just told us the original Lesser you use was from a Queen Belinda.....

I used the link at your website and I send you twice the same e-mail I think...

After I never get a response so then I talked to Raphael on Facebook and he helped me as good as he could, and I thank him for that....you should hire him, LOL (sorry just a joke! ).

Have you ever had any offspring Platinums?? Maybe from your line of Lesser and a normal sibling? Or did you never try that??

I would not breed A HG woma x HG woma, no worries...

 

[saskia]

Edit I guess You saying :" I would expect something to happen since my source of Lesser is the same as Ralph....but possibly another breeding."answers my question.

I'm curious why though..did you not want to try for a beautiful platinum?