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Bad Guy D&M REPTILE RESCUE

zach_24_90 said:
This guy seems more like a hoarder than a "rescue" that place is trashed with stuff everywhere. He seems like he has a hard time parting with anything. Sad the animals are suffering because of his problem.
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When I went he had a crap ton of tanks he could sell for a good price, and some really good caging that is top dollar stuff, but it sits outside unused in the weather. If he would sell half the things he could afford better things for all.
 
I have heard many terrible things about that place for a long time. When I was working at the reptile shop in Tucson, many of my customers told me they did not like that place for many of the same reasons you have posted. I completely support you and your goals to end the "rescue". I understand how hard it is to put yourself out there to stop terrible situations such as this one, but know you are doing the right thing. I have shared the video with everyone I know who would care, and I hope you can get ahold of a news media that will listen to your story. Good luck!! You are awesome for standing up for what you believe in!! (Side note, Pajamas looks great! I couldn't of asked for a better home for him! Thank you for giving all of your animals a loving home with excellent care!)
 
VampyrDarling said:
I have heard many terrible things about that place for a long time. When I was working at the reptile shop in Tucson, many of my customers told me they did not like that place for many of the same reasons you have posted. I completely support you and your goals to end the "rescue". I understand how hard it is to put yourself out there to stop terrible situations such as this one, but know you are doing the right thing. I have shared the video with everyone I know who would care, and I hope you can get ahold of a news media that will listen to your story. Good luck!! You are awesome for standing up for what you believe in!! (Side note, Pajamas looks great! I couldn't of asked for a better home for him! Thank you for giving all of your animals a loving home with excellent care!)
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Why didn't anyone else report it?
 
A word on my experiences with Animal Control/Animal welfare agencies:

It is very risky for them to go into a place one time and seize animals on the first or even second visit unless they can prove an illegal act was committed. When animal control or animal welfare seizes animals, there is a court case that takes place afterwards to determine if the seizure was legal and if the owners have the right to have their animals back. It is much easier for them to maintain permanent custody of animals and permanently prohibit individuals or organizations from acquiring animals in the future if they come to court with a well documented history of neglect and failure to meet standards that have been clearly communicated by welfare agencies. i have actually been involved with welfare cases a couple of times as a witness to rescue/hoarding situations and have seen judges award custody of animals back to the original owners because they were able to claim that they were unaware they were not caring for the animals properly and now that they know what care the animals need they will provide it. Animal control then has to start all over again.

It usually isn't that they don't care about animals. NO ONE I have ever met works as an animal welfare agent for the fabulous salary and glamorous benefits that come with that job. I have met some animal control officers who seem to care more about power and control than animals, but their job is a little bit different. Animal welfare agents care A LOT about animals, but they still have to operate within the letter of the law unfortunately. Often their lack of caring by not immediately seizing animals is actually them biding their time, gathering evidence, establishing a indisputable and long history of neglect, and ensuring that when they are ready to go to court they are making the best case they can.
 
dinosaurdammit said:
Why didn't anyone else report it?
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David stated someone did reported it before, PACC (our local animal control) obviously knows nothing about reptile care and have turned down help from organizations more qualified so this hasn't been properly investigated yet. People have been reluctant to say anything publicly it seems because they were afraid of getting the treatment you have been on some of these forums. What you did took guts. Not everyone will believe you even with video and pictures, some people just don't want to hear anything negative at all about anyone so they dismiss it. Thanks for making waves. I'm reposting the link to the video footage filmed there yesterday http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WgbJ0PkGoGg
 
C.Gillis said:
David stated someone did reported it before, PACC (our local animal control) obviously knows nothing about reptile care and have turned down help from organizations more qualified so this hasn't been properly investigated yet. People have been reluctant to say anything publicly it seems because they were afraid of getting the treatment you have been on some of these forums. What you did took guts. Not everyone will believe you even with video and pictures, some people just don't want to hear anything negative at all about anyone so they dismiss it. Thanks for making waves. I'm reposting the link to the video footage filmed there yesterday http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WgbJ0PkGoGg
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When I saw the conditions lot of thoughts stirred. Mostly anger, a lot of sadness some disgust and a lot of confusion. I was angry because it was hard for me to stand, the garbage made me gag, ive smelled dead road kill and ive done bone cleaning on deer before that were road kill but this was a new kind of smell. The sadness came from the looks on their faces, the way they looked, their body condition and skin. Disgust hit me when I saw other people there building the ramp and yet no one said "hey man that tort pen needs more cleaning during the week". The confusion came when I tried to understand how this could happen and how hard it is to get anyone to pay attention. A lot of people STILL try and dismiss it.

Dan Krull is posting the interview tonight and the daily reptile report will post their story tuesday. Everyone is in agreement here, the animals and him need help. I dont know if he is ignorant to the suffering these animals HAVE to be feeling or if he just plain doesnt care. Neither are good. When PACC came out did they even check inside the house? I bet he hid no jaw iguana when they came. I bet he hid the other two boas I saw that you didnt, you saw turtles I didnt. And a monitor lizard? I never saw or even heard him mention a monitor lizard.

Those poor pack rats, nothing deserves that. I couldnt tell if they were gnawed on or rotting. I suspect the smell would be the give away. IF pacc says that this is ok, then they bypassed state laws. The rats never had food or water when I saw them and he told me he never feeds them. That would break the "food/shelter/water" law. I just dont think PACC had any competent people go out, they all need training and care sheets for reptiles. That way they can spot neglect.

just so everyone can see it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WgbJ0PkGoGg&feature=share
 
You're right the smell did give it away, you can here me gag several times while filming. They were not freshly dead and one was still alive eating the 3 dead ones.
 
C.Gillis said:
People have been reluctant to say anything publicly it seems because they were afraid of getting the treatment you have been on some of these forums.
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People shouldn't be afraid to come forward if they are telling the truth. In fact, I don't see anyone on here giving her grief except for the mistruths you two were insinuating. Making up things like stealing vet money to substantiate your accusations will get the attention of other members as you have noticed. I still have yet to see proof from either one of you that he received money for vet care and did not spend it on a vet.
 
Focal said:
I still have yet to see proof from either one of you that he received money for vet care and did not spend it on a vet.
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He states in the video that money was received when the iguana was supposedly dropped off last Saturday, even showed the surrender paper. Then he stated the money was spent on his electricity because keeping them warm was more important than just a vet check up because nothing was really wrong with that iguana. Can anyone look at that animal and think that it didn't need a vet check at the very least? I have also looked into it further and you're right, he can do what ever he want's with that money, it was given to him, he can buy beer and chips and by law it's not stealing. He can also charge whatever he wants for these animals, they are by law his animals. The point is these people are obviously having a difficult time and should be worrying about their own health and well being. There are other options available for these animals to be cared for so that everyone can be healthier.
 
C.Gillis said:
He states in the video that money was received when the iguana was supposedly dropped off last Saturday, even showed the surrender paper. Then he stated the money was spent on his electricity because keeping them warm was more important than just a vet check up because nothing was really wrong with that iguana.
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So was the money that was used on electricity the amount collected for "incurred expenses" or was this the additional monies for vet, medicines, or supplements? There are two different amounts that could be collected for different reasons. How much was collected on this iguana?

http://www.dmreptilerescue.com/dm's release of custody.pdf
 
Focal said:
So was the money that was used on electricity the amount collected for "incurred expenses" or was this the additional monies for vet, medicines, or supplements? There are two different amounts that could be collected for different reasons. How much was collected on this iguana?

http://www.dmreptilerescue.com/dm's release of custody.pdf
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yes the money was used to pay the electric bill right know too keep them warm. the iguana is going to the vet later this week. again if you want to talk to me call me at 520-256-7747 and we can talk about my rescue.
 
The web page says differently than that pdf about surrendered animals and fees
"The Surrendering Process
If you wish to turn custody of your reptile over to D & M's Reptile Rescue and Rehabilitation please contact us and complete the form below. Reptiles will not be accepted unless a release form is turned in with the reptile. We also require a $100.00 surrender fee to cover veterinary and food expenses." http://www.dmreptilerescue.com/aboutme.htm
Facts: They are having problems keeping electricity on, they are feeding pack-rats to these animals, the animals by his own admission haven't seen vet care in 3 years, there is rotten vegetation, metal twist ties and rubber bands being fed to tortoises, there are 11 red eared sliders in one aquarium, every animal has feces in their enclosures, the list goes on. I am appalled that animal control passed this property and believe it's only due to ignorance of reptiles on their part. I do not believe that these people should be running a rescue. I believe they should be concentrating on their own health and well being and accept the offered help. There are not so many animals that I saw there that one person couldn't keep up with them properly. I know many of you have more that that in your personal collections.
 
"There are not so many animals that I saw there that one person couldn't keep up with them properly." That is keep up with, it will take a few people to get this fixed so the animals are only needing daily maintenance.
 
C.Gillis said:
Here's the count I was shown, 8 exotic tortoises, 1 native tortoise, 11 water turtles, 6 lizards and 9 snakes.
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I should add... that we know of. I wonder if he doesn't hide animals when he knows someone I coming over. I never saw the turts and you missed seeing two snakes I did. Did the snakes die? What else does he have. When pacc came did they see nojawiguana?
 
The video evidence is damning. Watching it over and over its clear my claims were correct. I hate to say it but to those who doubted the conditions being that bad- I told you so. I understand the need to be dismissive but to outright deny that anything wrong is going on here is both ignorant and stupid. I have people saying "just get more helpers there" amount of help doesn't seem to work. C.gillis said that people go out there and try and change it and look at it now. Nothing gets done. If they were mine less than an hour to two hours a day to provide them with proper care. Getting more help won't fix it. Remove them, this is the only "fix".
 
dinosaurdammit said:
The video evidence is damning. Watching it over and over its clear my claims were correct. I hate to say it but to those who doubted the conditions being that bad- I told you so. I understand the need to be dismissive but to outright deny that anything wrong is going on here is both ignorant and stupid. I have people saying "just get more helpers there" amount of help doesn't seem to work. C.gillis said that people go out there and try and change it and look at it now. Nothing gets done. If they were mine less than an hour to two hours a day to provide them with proper care. Getting more help won't fix it. Remove them, this is the only "fix".
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Who has denied that the conditions are not bad? And calling people stupid is not going to help.
 
Bill T said:
Who has denied that the conditions are not bad? And calling people stupid is not going to help.
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(regarding stupid)Not here but on a different forum. They say all that is needed is more volunteers and that its my work ethic that is the problem.

As for who said its ok? Pima county said its ok. They passed the guy with conditions like this.
 
On a side note here, anyone in Az please go to this cause page: http://www.causes.com/actions/17347...ty-neglect-laws-and-it-needs-to-start-with-us
or go to our fb page and spread the word:
https://www.facebook.com/TucsonRedEaredSlidersRes.
I have already sent emails to our elected officials and want to follow up when we have collected lots of signatures. Thanks, Doug

Also Eric's and David's (D & M) radio interview on Herp Nation Radio is here:
http://www.herpnation.com/audio/dks-sr7-022513/
 
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