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Bad Guy D&M REPTILE RESCUE

Sorry - Working from a mobile device...
That first sentence should have started "It's probably a good thing for a few people..."
 
The people, at this "rescue", are in serious need of education.
Of course, the sub-par care/conditions should not be taking place but, that aside, their lack of knowledge (and close mindedness), alone, is enough that they should not be running a reptile rescue at this time... period.
The misinformation, "old wives tale", etc., that the kid in D&M's video spewed forth, is appalling.
 
Focal said:
Well, originally, you said there was a second person with you when you went out there. Shouldn't this person be able to back up your story or substantiate any of these statements you said he made. I haven't noticed this person post, their name mentioned, or even mentioned in general since this started. Maybe I over looked it :shrug01:
Click to expand...

there was no seconded person with ms. bush the day she came out to volenteer that saturday, every has to sign arelease of liabity form. again please call me at 520-256-7747 and we can talk about every thing going on at the rescue service. david
 
D&M Important Update

I arranged a deal with the Phoenix Herp Society to adopt all of D&M's animals free of charge no questions asked. They even offered to drive the 1.5 hours from Phoenix to get them. In the interview below, I propose that offer to David:

http://www.herpnation.com/audio/dks-sr8-022813/



I suggest we give David some time and encouragement as he makes this difficult decision.

Thanks,

Dan Krull
Herp Nation Media
 
Dan Krull said:
I arranged a deal with the Phoenix Herp Society to adopt all of D&M's animals free of charge no questions asked. They even offered to drive the 1.5 hours from Phoenix to get them. In the interview below, I propose that offer to David:

http://www.herpnation.com/audio/dks-sr8-022813/



I suggest we give David some time and encouragement as he makes this difficult decision.

Thanks,

Dan Krull
Herp Nation Media
Click to expand...


Ya know... lol. I've stayed silent on this thread because I'm not involved with any of this situation. But, a couple things I'd like to say:

1) Dan, you deserve a huge amount of recognition for the way you've handled this on your end. You have been nothing but kind and compassionate, and I truly believe anyone in a situation such as this in the future should use your actions and rhetoric as an ideal model.

2) Initially, and more so since Dan's most recent radio posting, it sounded like a very sad situation. I understand the anger that a lot of us in the community are feeling over these circumstances. But, more importantly, we need to acknowledge that there is a real possibility that this entire situation goes much deeper than careless actions. Dave really does seem as though he loves these animals, and although it doesn't look so on the outside, like he wants them to be well cared for. Sadly, often when people get into these situations it is because they are literally unable to see the negative effects of their developed behavior, ie - animal hoarding.

If Dave is able to let these animals go to the Phoenix Society, more power to him. However, it is a real possibility that doing so would be so much of an emotional and mental upset for him that he won't be able to. It's alright to be angry, but I think that Dan's example of compassion is more appropriate until this is resolved.

Just my thoughts...
 
regardingmarley said:
If Dave is able to let these animals go to the Phoenix Society, more power to him. However, it is a real possibility that doing so would be so much of an emotional and mental upset for him that he won't be able to. It's alright to be angry, but I think that Dan's example of compassion is more appropriate until this is resolved.
Click to expand...


:iagree:
 
Dan Krull said:
I arranged a deal with the Phoenix Herp Society to adopt all of D&M's animals free of charge no questions asked. They even offered to drive the 1.5 hours from Phoenix to get them. In the interview below, I propose that offer to David:

http://www.herpnation.com/audio/dks-sr8-022813/



I suggest we give David some time and encouragement as he makes this difficult decision.

Thanks,

Dan Krull
Herp Nation Media
Click to expand...


Thanks, Dan, for doing this.
I believe that David cares for these animals. However, I, also, believe he is in way over his head.
Giving the animals, to the Phoenix Herp Society, would be an unselfish act. Something that is done with the best interest, at heart, for the animals.
While it may not be an easy decision, I do hope that David will relinquish the animals to the Phoenix Herp Society.
In my opinion, it would be the best decision for all involved (human and animal).
 
No, it's nasty and mean. David is in over his head, but he does not seems to be a bad guy at heart. Childish jabs like that serve no purpose here.

Kudos to Dan for stepping up to help. I hope this is resolved in the best way possible.
 
It's a lot of work to care for those animals and I'm sure he does care about them. Maybe it's just me but what makes me the most concerned is when you need to decide between heat and getting vet care. Just because they have been that way with the health issues they have does not mean they are happy there-they are surviving but probably not thriving as they should.
You need to weigh what's best for them. If you feel you are in over your head there is no shame with placing some of those animals with Dan-you would be doing whats best first for those animals and freeing up some resources and time to concentrate on the others.
 
Michelle1221 said:
It's a lot of work to care for those animals and I'm sure he does care about them. Maybe it's just me but what makes me the most concerned is when you need to decide between heat and getting vet care. Just because they have been that way with the health issues they have does not mean they are happy there-they are surviving but probably not thriving as they should.
You need to weigh what's best for them. If you feel you are in over your head there is no shame with placing some of those animals with Dan-you would be doing whats best first for those animals and freeing up some resources and time to concentrate on the others.
Click to expand...

Bingo. Any reptile keeper, especially a "rescue", Should not have to choose between the two.
 
Well, we have some good news to report. Friday, Charlotte and I both talked to David from D&M and after a few conversations, yesterday we went out and David gave me the 12 aquatic turtles and he did state that he will not be taking any more turtles in. David even offered me some tanks and filtration equipment.
We did not take any new video of the conditions or the animals today. We did have a chance to talk a little bit about some of the other animals and he is still considering the offer from the Phoenix Herpetological Society which was extended through Dan Krull.
I want to give a special thank you to Dan for maintaining your professionalism and for going above what anyone could have asked of him in this situation. Also, to the Phoenix Herpetological Society for offering to make the drive and to take in all the remaining animals.
The turtles are currently in their 3 temporary tanks until their tank rack is completed and they have been checked by a vet by the end of the week.
This is a positive first step and we hope that David will continue to get some more positive encouragement from the reptile community and do the right thing for the rest of the animals.

P.S. I was planning on posting a video of the turtles and how to set up an aquatic turtle tank but apparently my phone (and I) take horrible videos, so that's probably not going to happen....but we'll see if I can salvage any of it.

Doug
 
I went with Doug and got the water turtles on Saturday. I agreed to not film or take pictures while we were there to get the turtles, honestly I'm surprised he let me back over there after I took that video. The whole property had been tidied but the sulcatas were still eating garbage. While I was there I picked plastic bags, metal twist ties and rubber-bands out of their rotten veggies. I explained that their food needs to be sorted, rinsed, cut up, and put on a tray so they don't eat dirt with it. They didn't seem to believe me, I got a very strange look. I didn't get a chance to check on anything else as they were all covered by tarps, secured with screws. Yes getting the water turtles is a positive first step as they were only being fed lettuce because David says they're vegetarians. A few had some injuries, all were thin and the one with a milky eye died within 24 hours of Doug getting them. I was told the nojawiguana had a vet visit sat. but I don't know the outcome. Those tortoises are still my biggest worry, the conditions they are in will kill them eventually. There was one less tortoise, he said it had been adopted that morning. David says he's still considering the offer from the Phoenix herp society but he also mentioned some more of the animals were going to be adopted/sold this week. I'm frustrated with this whole situation and I'm not sure what to do or if I've already done too much. If I thought for one second that going out there every weekend and busting my ass would help these animals I would do that. But what is the point if he's just going to feed them metal and plastic in rotten food on the dirt as soon as I left?
 
I haven't been saying anything about any of this since I can't get out there myself but I did want to chime in, Charlotte, you're doing a great job and don't feel otherwise (and everyone else pitching in the right this unfortunate situation). I definitely understand your 'what's the point?' frustration. In the end you're not the person that started this rescue; none of the volunteers are. The ultimate fact is leading a rescue of any sort is, perhaps unexpectedly, a very expensive venture; if you cannot provide basic care for your animals regardless of what you call your collection, it's your sole responsibility to do right by them. While volunteers are extremely welcome to take the load off, it's not their responsibility to be the difference between animals being cared for properly or not.
 
As Charlotte stated, unfortunately, I did lose 1 RES in the first 14 hrs, which will be necropsied. I have vet checks scheduled this coming week with Dr. Jarchow. To say that their appetites are good is an understatement. When I threw in the pellets it looked like a feeding frenzy, which is to be expected when they have had nothing but greens for a long time. After the vet checks are completed, they will be posted for adoption locally to good homes, preferably ones with outdoor ponds.
Even thought this story is far from over and there are more animals that need to be removed, I want to thank Erica (DD) for showing us what was happening out there and Charlotte for all the hours and everything that she has done to help improve the lives of those animals and her family as well for taking the ride out there with me this weekend.
 
Thought I'd share an update on the situation for everyone.
Copies of Charlotte's video and the story out of the UK about a tortoise enclosure that burnt down killing the 2 inhabitants (when they were mating and got tangled up in the heat lamp cords and pulled them down causing the fire) were sent to all the local Fire Inspectors and Fire Chiefs. D&M's address is right in the middle of 3 different Fire Stations and we have gotten responses from all 3. The 2 not responsible for that area thanked us and promised to contact their counterparts who are responsible to get some action taken. The Fire Dept. that is responsible, emailed that they had reviewed the video and have cause for concern and will inspect the property.

David sent an email to Charlotte:
<[email protected]> wrote:
i would like to you to know that dr. jarchow was out on 3-2 13, with pacc to health all the reptiles , all are in great health.found anew home for all the waterturtles, new homes for 2 snakes,and someof the tortoies. good by

Charlotte responded to that email with:
To: [email protected]
I find that difficult to believe as 3 turtles that were rescued from you need vet care and 1 died within 14 hours, ....

David called me that night and I called him back the next morning. He expressed his regret that the 1 turtle died. He told me during our conversation that he had sold a couple of the snakes and a tort but that he was still considering the offer from Dan and the Phoenix Herp Society. When I asked him what the vet and PACC had said about the turtles, he said, "Well, they really didn't look at the turtles because I told them that you were coming to get them that same day."
Which from the standpoint of thoroughness and accuracy of an investigation really bothered me. So I called the Chief Enforcement Officer for PACC. Jose informed me that they were indeed out there the morning of the 2nd. That the Enforcement Officer who went on this inspection has degrees in Biology/Zoology and Herpetology and that Dr. Jarchow accompanied the officer on the inspection. When I started to ask specific questions, I was told that they can not comment on an open and active investigation. I then informed him that David had said that he had been cleared of everything and given an okay to continue to operate as he had been. I was told that wasn't true and that once the investigation was concluded criminal and/or civil penalties could be imposed.
So that's where things stand as of right now. My concern is that the longer he takes to consider the Phoenix Herp Society offer the less likely he is going to do it.
 
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