Fantastic question... Please allow me to answer.
I have not used my PayPal account in 5 years. Bank info was wrong, Credit cards attached to PayPal were expired.
I owed my rodent delivery guy money for a delivery and he did not accept credit cards but does accept PayPal. I downloaded the PayPal app on my phone and proceeded to pay my rodent guy (btw it's a new rodent guy). I tried to update credit card information but it wouldn't let me on my phone. I was not at a computer. I accidently submitted payment to my rodent delivery guy from a PayPal account that had a $0 balance. I immediately called PayPal and tried to fix that problem.
PayPal said:
1. That I had to wait til they tried to hit my bank account that I closed 5 years ago if that didn't work they would
2. Hit a credit card that was expired. < if that didn't work they would
3. Send my account negative and I would have to update my information...
THAT'S WHEN JOSEPH CRASHED INTO MY LIFE!!! < he sent money to a negative account before I had time to update information. all of this literally happened in a 5 day period.
I was packing for a show that would put me 300 miles away from home for 2 days and I CALLED Joseph and explained that I would not be able to fix this problem until I returned on Wednesday. I also explained all of this to Joseph in detail.
You could add it was a three day Holiday weekend too. How this thread comes off, I'm sympathetic to you.
I don't know the tone of the phone calls and how working out the replacement went but in the end the transaction went right back where the emails were on the first day. A request for refund.
Everyone has stated just about everything I have thought on both ends. I think levelheadedness would help from both of you. With that, there can be enough fault to go around for everyone to say this transaction should just end amicable.
Here Is what I have seen here from both-
Joseph, while I understand the frustration of ordering from the site and finding out the website hasn't been updated in a long time, I think you went a little to far with making the statements that "he is a scam" "fraudulent and the like". If he had posted a ad for the viper boas online stating they were 'in stock" I would agree with you but a website is a little different. People often neglect websites or they become outdated. Stating the bank is going after him or somehow he is going to be prosecuted for it at that point was a little much.
Nevertheless, Sean should make the effort to update the website. At least remove the "In stock" by now with paypal buttons on products that he doesn't have. It's bound to happen again from someone reaching his website and assuming it is up to date and seeing the purchase now button.
On to the refund-
First Joseph, Your first email inquiry was this last Saturday night. You guys discussed the situation by email Sunday morning. After that, it appears you had phone calls to discuss a different option that Sunday or Monday with Sean obtaining from another source.
Monday at 10:30 at night you were still asking if the animal was going to be shipped and clarifying your address.
So at that point you are still both working together on this purchase. You agreed to another option and weren't looking for a refund until your request at the end of that email at 10:30 PM on 11/10
From: Joseph Rich <
[email protected]>
Date:
11/10/2014 10:27 PM (GMT-05:00)
To: Sean Masciandaro <
[email protected]>
Cc:
Subject: RE: Viper boas
No. I live in kingsland Georgia. Right across the line. But I bought my phone in Jax. So there's the 904 area. My address is 309 Norwood dr, kingsland Georgia. It's all good.
I ordered a retic from another site. Sorry bout the confusion n just refund it when u get a chance.
The next morning, 10-12 hours later you put this thread up?
Yes, you initially asked for a refund but you two came together and were working on a alternative to ship you a snake. So your request for a refund didn't really start until Tuesday morning when he probably woke-up to read that email. By then you had already started this thread.
Regardless of all that transpired, the website being outdated, etc., you agreed to still work with him until that point. You made the request for a refund late that night and posted this thread the next day.
I don't think that was fair. Joseph, that is what I read and understand what has happened to that point. Can you not see that is how people would take it, if you go back and read what was shown here? When people state you jumped the gun, your getting extremely defensive and attacking them but it is what people see by what is posted here.
Your right! His website is out of date. You sent funds for something he didn't have. After discussing it with him you decided on a alternative. you decide to buy elsewhere. Notified him Monday night and started this thread Tuesday morning. Email sent Saturday night, transaction discussed on Sunday and Monday and thread started on Tuesday. All while the seller stated he was out of town and would take care of it when he returned.
So Sean, as you can see most here stated he jumped the gun and didn't give you a chance to make it right. I think he was wrong to state you were a fraud.
You both seemed to be working on a deal and he told you he had found another dealer/breeder late the night before he posted this here. You were out of town and having issues with PayPal. I can understand being upset.
However, you do still have the "buy it now buttons" and "in stock" on your website for items you don't have . You should correct that. Some people are going to assume the site is up to date and it may cause more problems.
It is the right thing to do to update it if you no longer carry the animals listed.
Regardless of agreeing with you up to this point, posting stuff like
"Keep it up and I'll make sure my bank ties it up for 30 days"
"Let's see how Joseph wants to handle this... Keep it up and it might not be a priority tomorrow either. "
and the like, does nothing to deescalated the situation. You know you owe him the funds back and whatever action you want to take with his statements is your right, but I wouldn't prolong the refund part. Many would just see it as vindictive.
I would just take care of the refund as soon as you can. Not delaying it because of what is posted here. It is the right thing to do, IMHO.
One other thing Joseph,
But as for Outback reptiles. You guys are awesome and always send good quality reptiles
I want ever do buisness with Outback again either because it's clear they have shady characters affiliated with their buisness.
Stated to Mike at Outback
It's ok. Both of you have bad guy reports. His site does not say call first for availability.
Ummm. You didn't get my text and voice mails over this matter ?????
I got a voice mail and did not get a chance to respond. Since your area code is Florida, I was checking up on Florida law regarding reticulated pythons before I contacted you back.
I have nothing to do with you and Sean's dealings other than Sean offering to come purchase something from me in an attempt to make you happy. I wish you the best of luck in resolving this but I have no part in it.
As far as Mike Shultz. I've ordered from him and he's a good guy. But Prolly needs to give Sean a lesson in buisness etiquette. I do recommend outback reptiles because he really hooked me up on some garaters early this year. Sorry bout that Mike.
You were very quick to bash Mike and Outback. You apologized yes, but it should someone very quick to jump the gun. I think it is relevant to how you also dealt with Sean.
There is no reason to keep escalating this. Sean, If you concede you owe the refund PayPal will deduct the refund in the dispute. You shouldn't get a double whamming from his bank and paypal. Just click the refund button in paypal so no fees are charged to anyone. That's once you have the paypal account worked out with your correct information.
