• In case most of you have not noticed, I made changes to the donation amounts as well as the durations for all of the paid membership levels. Things are winding down here, and this seems to be the most prudent way to deal with the "end of life" period of this site.

    Contributor level members - $10 per 30 days
    Sponsors - Eliminated
    Benefactor level members - $25 per 30 days
    Endowment level members - $50 per 30 days

    Account Upgrades Page
  • Responding to email notices you receive.
    **************************************************
    In short, DON'T! Email notices are to ONLY alert you of a reply to your private message or your ad on this site. Replying to the email just wastes your time as it goes NOWHERE, and probably pisses off the person you thought you replied to when they think you just ignored them. So instead of complaining to me about your messages not being replied to from this site via email, please READ that email notice that plainly states what you need to do in order to reply to who you are trying to converse with.

Adam Block (Inquiry)

Let me explain Ritchie's role here a bit.

Ritchie is not a moderator in the sense that he will try to moderate between people that are giving way to emotion in a discussion. That is more my role, as well as Ken Harbart's.

Bear in mind what the BOI is all about. It's about finding out the truth, and sometimes that just is not obvious nor easy to ferret out. This may come as a shock to some people, but not everyone will utter the truth. Particularly if their business practices are coming under question, or if they are trying to prove something that it would be advantageous to them that people would blindly believe.

Ritchie is the ferret of the BOI. He is the one that tries to dig down to the bottom of things and get to the truth. To be honest, it is a dirty job and it is not likely to have him loved by everyone. But he has volunteered to do this. As such, I had to give him the keys to be able to do things normally reserved to moderators, and I had to give him my trust to be able to block some threads from running away when I or Ken are not around. This comes with the territory, and I stand behind my decision on this.

Yes, sometimes Ritchie is wrong, and sometimes he may push things a little further than some people think are necessary. But I am willing to accept that, because I would have to say that within the two+ years he has been associated with this site, his aim has been dead on far more times than he has missed the target.

I do not give him carte blanche here, however, and have had to remind him that I do expect him to be civil to everyone here, even if he is chasing down the stinkiest polecat in the business. But he is human, and sometimes he has to do what he has to do in order to 'get his man'. And yes, Ritchie is susceptible to becoming emotional about an issue just as everyone else here is liable to do, including myself. I do not fault anyone for being human.

So I hope this explains it a bit better. I am sure this is rather unique to any other message board out there, so I can see where it would be confusing to some people.

As for the two threads that Ritchie locked down, HE did not delete them. I did. I have not granted him the authority to remove posts from the BOI. NO one but myself has that authority. And I believe, in these cases, I did what was appropriate. Adam was using third party hearsay in an anonymous manner, and that will not be acceptable. It may have skated by in the past, but in an effort to clean this place up a bit, I am being a LOT more critical about postings following the rules.

I am willing to listen to opinions on how I do things, however, so if anyone believes I have made a mistake, just let me know. I am willing to admit when I am wrong.

Thanks.
 
I agree with Stardust, this thread is plan vicious. I know many many people who refuse to post here because of people like you and the"inner circle", and now i see why. I know of someone else here who has told much bigger lies and still post here ALLLLL the time and thrives in this business. Get a life and learn to Mind Your Own Business. And people wonder why this site is not as big as K.S., because people like you scare them all away after seeing attacks like this and you are a moderator, nice job. And if you don't like him don't respond to his threads.
 
Thank you for clarifying that for me Webslave. I still think that he should also be accountable to prove what he says. I would like to still see him prove fake sincere apology??????
Also, In my humble opinion, if you are going to be a middle person, it should not be slam one and protect the other. Both sides as far as I am concerned, do need to answer some questions. I do not think it should be well one lied, blast him, well one sold an underweight snake, but its ok.
If there can't be some fairness then what is this all about?
I am just conveying my take on things. I believe that Ritchie, having certain privilages should try a tad harder to be fair.
How can people come here and feel they will have a fair shake when the semi- moderator does this?
Yes he is human, yes this is interesting for awhile, yes it can be construed as intimidating.
He is human yes, but should show constraint, he is a semi official here and should TRY to act accordingly.
Interesting for awhile, gets old, then how can he even be respected?
Intimidating, I understand and HAVE seen you sticking more to the rules, But that should also include the moderators or semi, and more so to show example
Again, I really like this site, Just stating my opinion

Rozann Lamont
 
Kevin, I don't have a problem at all with people whom prefer kingsnake.com's way of doing things. No one is having their arms twisted to come here.

And if you care to take your own advice by not reading Ritchie's posts because you don't like the way he does things, then have at it.

I still stand by my comments.
 
Rozann,

Yes I agree with you. But in this instance Ritchie is acting much like a person whom is talking to a crowd of old time friends and a few new acquaintances join in the crowd. All of us oldtimers here know what Ritchie is referring to and didn't give it another thought. But Ritchie simply forgot that there are alot of new faces around here and they simply were not around to have witnessed that incident.

So I agree, that it is in everyone's best interests that when making references to previous situations, whenever feasible, the quotes or links to back up the statements to people whom won't have a clue about what is being discussed should be provided.

Sorry, but that certainly may happen now and again, but it is not intentional. I am afraid that I probably fall prey to this as well time to time.
 
WebSlave said:
Kevin, I don't have a problem at all with people whom prefer kingsnake.com's way of doing things. No one is having their arms twisted to come here.

And if you care to take your own advice by not reading Ritchie's posts because you don't like the way he does things, then have at it.

I still stand by my comments.
Click to expand...
Did i say i prefer K.S. to this site. Totally different websites. I'm not the type to stand by while somebody is being kicked and won't defend themselves. This is the first time i have ever had a problem with Richie, normally he's alright. But he's WRONG here. Who cares if he wrote "soldout" instead of not available.
 
Since proff of Adam's insincere apology was asked for, I'll provide it...

On 10/14/02, Adam posted:
Neil, speaking with you was one of the most humbling experiences of my life. Thank you SO much for taking the time to not only enlighten me but to show me the error in my ways. In this particular situation I was 100% at fault and have not only failed to communicate but also failed to see things from the other persons shoes. You brought up some great points and they are very much appreciated. I find you to not only be an outstanding person but a sage beyond your years in intelligence as well.

I do humbly apologize to all who I've bashed or slandered. You were all 100% correct and I really dropped the ball on this one. I only hope my reputation isn't too tarnished to recover from. Ken, I owe you an extra big sorry for the poor customer service I've provided you with and will ship your tubes ASAP, I only hope I can be forgiven. Rich Z. thank you so much for allowing me to put my foot so far in my mouth that Neal had to step in and save me. I'm now a changed man and a post like Kens will never happen again as I will strive to keep my customers happy at any and all cost.

I've learned you are nothing without your word and reputation and this has turned out to be a great learning experience for me. Thank you all for not giving up on me, it took a lot of hindsight to see I wasn't a lost cause. So in closing thank you all for taking the time to post and please be sure to enjoy your week.

With love, peace and respect,
Adam Block
Click to expand...

Adam's words were taken at face value, and life went on. Alas, his little deception lasted all of one week. After that, he was back to spouting off about how much of a joke the BOI is, how easy it is to manipulate people, etc. It seemed as if every other thread was interjected with Adam's little pearls of wisdom.

Adam was quite close to being banned from this site due to his constant trolling and baiting.
 
We all need to relax a little. This is a great oppurtunity for this site to get more people. Kingsnake is obviously having its troubles and people are looking for somewhere to go. This site allows us to speak our minds and actually debate and argue. Not many sites allow this to happen. Webslave has been very fair with his judgements. Instead of attacking people on their age or their spelling, just try to debate. Nothing is wrong with disagreements. Just don't let them turn into hate. In every situation there is more than one side to the story. We all have different outlooks on any event. If Adam was lying, why doesn't the third party, whomever it might be, and Kevin of NERD give their side. Nobody truly knows what someone else is thinking or trying to do. I think it was Stardust that said we are scaring people away and she is right. I only stuck up for Adam because nobody else would. There are many people new to this site that do not know any body on here. They might not want to post because, who knows, they could get attacked for saying the wrong thing. Anyways, lets try to make this site a little more welcoming and stop attacking the little things. Thanks.

Tony Alles
www.reptileguru.com
 
Thank you for the info, I will go back and try to find it.
Still, two wrongs don't make a right, yeah yeah it might make you feel better LOL but then people start looking at you in the same light as the first peron.
I just found the whole thing weird, Adam says something about NERD and NERD only answers once, everyone goes after Adam for it, and then I address Ritchie on this and I get webslave and you. No offense, and I am glad you cleared things up.
But this thread is childish in my mind and its a get back for Adams prior post. Keep in mind I know none of you personally, I can only go by what I read/
If I were personally under fire like first NERD was, I would fight my own battles, Same with Adam, I believe I have said he needs to put up or shut up, (no not in those exact words;)
Try to see it from a outsider looking in.

Rozann Lamont
 
PS

I thought this was a discussion board, not caps and raising font sizes. That is considered yelling, maybe at that time someone should step in.
And are you saying Ritchie is here for the purpose of instigating?
 
Re: Who Cares?

smart_ask said:
Not a big deal to anyone else but I think I said I cared.
Click to expand...
Since you posted this same exact sentence twice, i will respond. Apparently Adam is easy prey now and this whole thread was unnecessary, except to lynch him just a little higher. And as for smartask, like i said who cares.
 
ok

Sorry your right that was for a small part of this overall thread. The double posting was from my overzealous use of the "back" button not ment to draw attention in anyway.
respectfully
 
Wow, some people agreed with me, thank you Kevin and Tony.
Was holding my breath waiting to be blasted LOL
Webslave and Ken were nice in there posts too.
Still cautious but breathing.:D
 
Stardust said:
Wow, some people agreed with me, thank you Kevin and Tony.
Was holding my breath waiting to be blasted LOL
Webslave and Ken were nice in there posts too.
Still cautious but breathing.:D
Click to expand...
That's the funniest thing i've read on this sad day.
 
I see no reason this thread should be considered anything but helpfull.

When I go to a website for a breeder.. and I see "Sold Out" .. to me.. and I am sure to many people.. that means.. that person has sold that animal. Saying "Sold Out" on an animal that was never sold to begin with.. well.. its dishonest and tells alot about a person. Most of us have already made our opinions on Adam Block (I wouldn't have even taken the time to see his website personally...you couldn't pay me to keep anything from his stock).. but.. this is a website on based on inquiry. If anyone has any questions on a breeder.. then this is the proper forum for that person to go to.

When I am looking at a site of breeder that I have not seen before.. I do tend to look for the higher end herps as well as the lower stuff. They must give me a false sense of security I guess. To me, if I see someone has sold vairous thousand+dollar snakes.. well. that shows to me a certain level of character that people trust him enough to buy that large of an amount from him. To lie about that.. well...from all I know of him so far.. is fitting for his character. I hope to be proved wrong and someone comes forth with proof that he did sell them. But.. until then... its just a deception.

Making false statements does not get you respect in the herp industry. Good character, Great Herps and even better service is what really counts to me.
 
Stardust, sometimes it is necessary to break a few eggs in order to make an omelet. The problem with a board like this is that it is far too easy for someone to fabricate something and try to pass it off as the truth. Sometimes those fabrications are so shallow and transparent that they offend the sensibilities of some people here that read them. Other times they can be much more subtle and difficult to pick out. I have seen time and time again, them more you allow someone to just run on with their statements, and the longer they are allowed to continue to do so, eventually they will contradict themselves. Sometimes these contradictions are not all conveniently laid out in the same thread. Sometimes, just as a good trail lawyer will do when he believes a witness is lying on the stand, the witness has to be forced to lose his cool and blurt out something without taking the time to think it through.

Yes, from the outside this can be disconcerting and look like harrassment or instigating an argument here. And sometimes it certainly can be taken too far, or perhaps an actual error in judgement has been made.

But in EVERY instance I have seen, Ritchie Luna was looking out for everyone's best interests when he would doggedly pursue someone about what they are claiming. NO ONE has their statements taken at face value and accepted as the unassailable truth. But there are prejudices, as I will mention later, that are unfortunate, but exist nonetheless. I heartily do not recommend anyone to come onto the BOI and think they can just shoot from the hip and slam someone without providing evidence that they can back up. If you try to do that, you can expect to have the floor slam you in the face. And I don't have a problem with it being that way in here.

If you are coming to the BOI just to hear nice things about people, then you will be in for a surprise. This is about as real as it gets. In real life, people lie, cheat, steal, and purposely hurt people for no other reason than because they like to do it. Truth of the matter is, if someone screws you out of money, NO ONE in the judicial system is going to help you recover that money. NO ONE.

The BOI was set up for three reasons: (1) Give everyone a centralized meeting place to be able to compare notes about someone and out those people whom are likely to take your money and run with it. (2) In the same vein, have a place where, have a place where enough embarrassment can be heaped on someone with still a modicum of scruples remaining that they will make every effort to make their end of the bargain right. (3) Provide a place where people whom are doing their part in this business the way it should be done the recognition deserved and give those people checking up on them the confidence needed to send them their money. There are an awful lot of new people getting into this stuff every day and they don't have a clue whom is a good guy and whom is not. Anyone can look good on the net with minimal effort. When someone gets burned, we all suffer, because some of those people never come back.

So back to the point of this, yes Ritchie is sometimes going to look like he is badgering someone. He is going to look like he is unfairly picking at someone's story. But Ritchie Luna is directly responsible, with a lot of people working behind the scenes, for exposing a lot of scammers out there and keeping enough pressure on them that they just faded from the scene. To date, I can only recall ONE time when he was wrong with his hunches.

Those are pretty good odds in my book.

So unfortunately, here in the BOI, everyone can pick up that sword and take a swipe at someone, but that sword is sharp on both sides and you can very easily have it turned against you. That is why I REQUIRE that people take ownership for what they say and I do not allow anonymous pro or con messages, no matter how valuable they may appear. If you state the truth, own up to what you are saying, and then get attacked by someone whom is disputing what you day with lies, Ritchie will be at your side, and you will be damned glad of it.

Anyway I need to close this message and get on with other things. But first I want to get back to my statement I made above about prejudices.

This hit me alongside the head not too long ago and although I should have realized it, it came as a shocking blow to me. Pretty nearly caused me to close down the BOI because of it, if I might admit it here. Unfortunately, people are sometimes going to make decisions not based on truth but based on practicality. If there is a large site where someone advertises their animals or merchandise, and that site provides about 80 percent of their income, no matter how wrong the site owner is about their actions, most of these people will NEVER say a thing against them. And can you blame them? Sometimes the price of scruples is just too high for some people. This can be applied to a particular breeder or supplier of goods as well, that someone may have a business relationship that they just are not willing to jeopardize by saying anything against them, no matter if it is the truth or would support someone else's case. This is life and it needs to be understood fully in light of some issues you will read about in here. Sometimes both parties can be wrong and both parties are protecting their interests so strongly that you may not be able to determine the truth, and although there is supporting evidence available from knowing third parties, they WILL NOT post here about it.

That's just the way it is.

I believe this has gone WAY off topic, in many respects, but I believe I at least hung onto the topic by at least a hair or two.

Some people are not going to like this thread, simply because they don't understand Ritchie's tactics and are offended by them. Sometimes I don't like them either, but I've seen enough results from them in order to understand why he does it. But believe me, I have had more than one talk with Ritchie when I felt he was going just a bit too hard line even for the BOI.

People often say that the truth hurts. Well in the BOI, lies will hurt much more, because SOMEONE will always scrutinize every word you say.

I hope I have helped explain this.
 
I find this thread just down right vicious. And am surprised its happening.

So me putting an inquiry is vicious. I was on a quest for the truth and everyone started jumping in and protecting a known liar.

You say you are not a moderator but yet you are allowed access to lock threads, such as from that guy last night bashing a breeder. What is up with that? A non moderator with privilages?

THE WATCHER !! I had to lock the thread down before it got way out of hand. and I do not moderate.

Well before you go saying Adam fakes sincere apologies maybe YOU should have to PROOF to back it up?

Well Ken included Adams apology with a date of 10/14/02. I guess I will have to go and find the other stuff

here is Adam's post on 10/21/02 (one of his many) but this will do for now...unless you want me to go find more
Gambino you are a very stupid man for trying to bring your points up on here. They are not in line with the others and for that reason would have to be wrong. The only other option would be for some of the other regular posters to be wrong and we all know that couldn't be an option.
This board is a very good thing if you do what others want. If you don't, consider yourself a bleeding pig in a river full of piranha. You will be eaten alive with no regard for you side of the story and there will be no accountability for their words.
Remember, this board exactly like a court of law without the right to a fair trial. Being innocent until proven guilty or a right to any type of defense.
My words of wisdom for posting in here are to post one time in a topic and run so your words can only be twisted once. It also makes it easy on the people that are dodging your questions as they only get asked once and if three of four times it gets harder to avoid the question.
Good luck all, and please note I didn't read pages 2-8 however I agree with the mainstream 100% and I'm sure the prick that started this thread was way out of line.

The outcast,
Adam Block
Click to expand...

I do not think it should be well one lied, blast him, well one sold an underweight snake, but its ok.

Well Adam lied to this board over and over. The reason I am "attacking" him is because he is falsely posting about a company. And he is continually doing it to. He is continually posting his libelous cr@p. So I have to continually be on him. He is costing that company business and it was all based on stuff he fabricated.
As for the "underweight" snake....how can I blast Kevin when he did not deny it? Therefore I considered it the truth and will let people judge him themselves.
My aim is to discover the truth and post it for the world to see. Kevin sold an "underweight" snake...done there it is the truth is out. I do not need to post it. What more can I do? I can't do research on Kevin's past lies since he does not post much. But as far as Adam's....well the board is full of his lies.

go ahead and slam away

No slams Rozzann you have done nothing wrong. You have not lied over and over like Adam. I will just post the stuff you wanted me to post.

I agree with Stardust, this thread is plan vicious.

This thread started out as nothing more than an inquiry. Then you people started saying it was unecessary. If it is unecessary to find out the truth.....then I qill continue doing unecessary things.

I know of someone else here who has told much bigger lies and still post here ALLLLL the time and thrives in this business.

And I bet we have already laid into him. And when he messes up again we will lay into him somemore. And if we have not laid into him.....perhaps you would care to tell us who he might be....that way I can make sure to investigate and lay into him too.

Get a life and learn to Mind Your Own Business

I wonder how many people would have been ripped off if I decided to mind my own business. By the way....weeding out the bad guys means more customers for me and the rest of the good guys. So this is my business. By the way. I get thank you letters and pm's all the time from people whose money got saved. I would post them but I susually just respond and delete them. By the way...didn't you say I ws to brutal?

because people like you scare them all away after seeing attacks like this and you are a moderator, nice job.

Let's put it this way. You can post whatever you want. If it is the truth, Damn it I am right by your side. I am your sheild and your sword. If I find out you are lying.....Then I am like a hungry burmese attacking a cute little fury helpless bunny.

and then I address Ritchie on this and I get webslave and you.

well give me sometime to feed the baby, change her and put her to sleep. I do have a life. Even if it says I am online does not mean I am at my keyboard. (perks of cable modem)

Well this thread was to do an inquiry. But since you all changed the subject around and are asking for proof. follow the link. go all the way down. It is in big letters. You can't miss it.
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=12613&perpage=10&pagenumber=21

Wonder why you guys have not asked Adam for proof. But you only ask me for proof. There they are. Let me know if you want more links.

And if anyone feels the need to investigate or help investigate. Please do so. I do not come up with this stuff by myself. there are a myriad of people in the background feeding me their findings and links and quotes. Sometimes it takes a while to get to the truth. But damn it....to the truth we will go.
 
Let me tell you a little secret.

I get a lot of people chastising me. I get a lot of people ridiculing me. It is a dirty "job" but someone has to do it. A lot of times I just want to say. To hell with you all, I have my own reptiles to deal with. I have my own life to take care off. I can't get ripped off because I get the payment before I send the animal.

The only thing that keeps me going are the e-mails and pm's I get from people whose money was saved.

So if you guys want the job. Have at it. Try it. See for yourself if it is easy. Sometimes it takes a big pair of b@lls to do what I do.

I go to a show wanting to meet people....instead I have to shy away because they MIGHT think I am some vicious dog who will sick them.

There are only a handfull of people (3-5) who have met me. And they are not all regulars of this forum. Even webslave has not met me. I just looked at his animals. Wondered how I could introduce myself. Then the words "Hi, I am the idiot Luna who posts too much on your forum" came to mind. So I went to get a hot dog and looked at some vision cages instead.
 
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