Allen Belcher / Big Daddy's Wholesale ... WARNING

[Junkyard]

Allen, I am the guy who suggested mold. I still suggest mold based on the pictures I see. I have made an outline myself of two pictures. I did not include the corn snake trying really hard not to touch the bottom of the cage, but that is not fresh spilled water when a corn snake sits on a bowl the way that your corn snake is.

Allen, do you care for the health and well being of your animals? They are your animals, money you spent, did you get after Bryon for not doing his job cleaning cages? Did you chew him out and then walk away from the animals looking that bad? Did you at all look in the cages to make sure the animals were in good health? You have a lot of money invested in reptiles, yet YOU allowed the cages to look this bad.

4 some animals die every week in your care? You have 4 regurges every week? That there tells me you do not care. I care for over 100 animals, it is not an impossible job, but it is hard work, I am lucky my wife is around and helps out. I question the regurging snakes, that is awful, no one should have that many regurging every week. I understand a few sick every other month because of so many going in and out, but every week? That is WAY to much.

As a businessman and employer, it is YOUR job to insure that these animals are cared for in the best way possible. It is YOUR job to make sure the cages are clean, the animals are fed, and the animals are healthy. YOUR lack of responsibility is the reason you have dying animals, sick animals, and employees calling you out to explain yourself.

This whole deal is all he said/he said talk, but one has pictures. Allen, why do you not come here and tell us what is really going on without making a bunch of excuses and passing the buck.

 

[Chameleon Company]

Hey Guys,
I need some help. Laura Cox first raised the concern about whether Bryon had tried to report Allen to an animal control agency in post #17. I raised the issue again in my first post, #27 (if you think I've been biased, please read that one .. thanks), and implored Bryon to contact any local or state agency that may have jurisdiction. Since then, many others have recommended the same, or asked Bryon. The timing indicates that Bryon came here to the BOI no more than one day after his last day of work (he says "yesterday we laid sewer pipe" early on in the thread). I have no recollection of Bryon informing the thread as to his actions regarding government agencies. I realize it was the weekend, but has he addressed this concern? Mentioned intentions about it? Which post(s)? Thanks.

 

[Ron Billingsley]

I don't wish to be a Devil's Advocate..... But a state Agency is the Last place you want to call!!!! If animal controls comes in, It will be all over the TV and newspaper, they will say that everyone, beside this person, keeps animals in that manner. This should be handled by other Herpers, not a state agency. It will only give them more power to shut down other hobbyists in that state. It's happen else where!!

 

[hers]

I only said it three times because its a pretty name ... and I was exhaling !!

LOL, well thank you...personally I hate it. I really wish it was longer...

Allen's a business man, and while I see it as a compliment in ways, I don't think that he needed my hints, if that's what they were. But I thank you. I also thank you for reading some of my earlier posts.

...

But being as Bryon chose this stage in all its public heraldry, what can I say .....

True, Allen is male, and does own at least one business, but to say that he is a businessman may or may not be entirely true. Personally, my definition of a businessman is one who knows his business, knows it well, and succeeds in a dignified manner. All others fall into various other categories


But, I do understand your point about Bryon making a choice to post in a public forum and face all repercussions...yada yada yada.

One bit that is troublesome about all of this is the fact that Bryon posted all of these pictures because (the gist of his words) he felt the animals were suffering and wanted something to be done about it. Posting this on the BOI is great to let all of the unsuspecting people (again assuming all of this is true, pics are accurate, etc) from purchasing less than healthy animals, thus funding more animals the same fate. But, as many people have said and has yet to be answered, Bryon, have you notified the proper authorities to help these animals? If the answer is no, than that does not make your intentions look very pure.

Ron, I see your point about the authorities, but that seems to be a double-edged sword. True, we get enough of this on the news already, especially in Florida, but do we let the (alleged) horrid conditions continue because we don't want to risk our own hobby/business/pets? While ultimately, the best thing would be for some unbiased and local person to help with this, are the parties going to agree to this? Even if Allen gets his act cleaned up now, how long will it last? Who is going to police this? Should these animals suffer because of this? It's a tough call.

 

[Chameleon Company]

Ron, I respect your opinion, but just don't agree. There's probably at least 5 different recommendations in the thread that they be contacted. Anybody else able to help me? I'm not trying to report Allen, just find out if Bryon has mentioned anything relative to it.

 

[Ron Billingsley]

I don't live in Alabama. If I did, I would be knocking on this gentleman's door about six hours ago. I don't believe letting a state agency handle everything in life. Sure, I likethe fact my tax dollars pays for Firemen and police to keep everyone safe. I don't like the idea they can come into your home and just take stuff cause they were "called".
What needs to happen is a few herpers from his area, approach him and try to get a handle on those horrible HORRIBLE conditions the animals are being kept in. The last thing that needs to happen is having the State come in and make a federal case of it.
I am not Anit government... but I know they will use this to help push laws from keeping reptiles.

 

[BryonsBoas]

Jim

Here is your answer :

Anything that happened in the last 6 weeks between me and Allen was just that , no witnesses. This will be a he said , he said thing. Did I blindside Allen? Yup. Same as I would have with anyone else. Does Allen know that I would? YES . I've known Allen for well over a year , did allot of biz through his shop , talked to him personally many times. Allen knew the kind of guy that I am , thats why HE called ME to come work for him. I keep it real with any job I have , Allen knew that . If its wrong I let it be known its wrong. I did this with Allen on numerous occasions. Anyone here can guess what I was feeling when I started this. I'll tell you what I was feeling. I went to work everyday and busted my ass for a guy that just refused to listen to someone who knew what he was doing. I did this until I realized that I was talking to myself to hear my own voice.

I spent 1 1/2 with Allen going over his plans and job duties and pay. Extra duties were added and when I brought up to Allen that it should reflect in my check it got shot down. The reason I left was because I personally was taken advantage of by Allen. I watched and listened as he did deals . I heard him and falsify to get a deal . He told of calling DNR on a seller to get a batch of morphs for free. I lost respect for Allen over this 6 week period . I've seen him do things I didn't agree with , say things I didn't agree with and take advantage of every situation right or wrong. These are the reasons I left.And I kept this personal between me and Allen . It didn't belong here.

I did have emotions running high when I started this thread because I was tired of watching animals lay in filth , fall over dead , share a tub with a rotting corpse , etc. I've cried over the thought of animals that I love being treated this way and guy that dictates his company just didn't show any concern. Did I do this as vengeance thing? NO . I did this to stop the BS. I did this because its wrong to treat defenseless animals that way. I did this because it was the RIGHT DAMN THING TO DO. I brought these conditions up , i offered advice , I did the best I possibly could given the situation. DAMNIT I COULD NOT TAKE IT ANYMORE!!!!

As many of the tubs that I took pics of I cleaned . I did with it tears in my eyes. I did all of this knowing that I could pay a very price but I did it not for a pat on the back or to be a white knight. I did it because someone needed to be a voice for those that cannot speak for themselves. I did this so no one would have a terrible first experience coming into this hobby. I did this because a man with more money than caring was letting these animals die.

I've looked in Allen's eyes many times I've seen only dollar signs looking back at me. Everyone and everything is a potential paycheck to this man. He lifted barely a finger to help me or those animals in his care.

As for Allen , you never loaned me money. I came to work with less than $20 in my pocket . You were kind enough to front me $100 from my next check to get through X-mas. For that I will always be thankful for that kindness but it was settled up in my check. If you had so many probs with me then why did you ask me back twice? If those were real poss hets in that tank then why wasn't I told this BEFORE there was a possibility of mixing them up? You know you gave me free reign to take pics of any animals we had for any reason.

As far as your " quarantine " you only have 2 41 qt racks , those animals are in the 3rd tub in the rack on the left right next to your " prize " breeders.

Allen , any issues I had with you I kept private . Bringing my personal issues into this was bad form . You already admitted to marking normals as poss hets so how are you OK with customers getting exactly what they paid for? You know you went behind my back on those 2 deals in Atlanta. I did as you asked and you screwed on me on both. As far as the first " issue " of me making a deal , it was at a vendors table in Columbia , I asked to buy an animal at their asking price. No deals , I wanted the animal, customer to vendor. I kept to everything you asked of me. I worked hard and did the best I could . I never failed you , YOU failed me. You took away any trust and respect I had for you.

Was this thread personal? NO , I'd do it to anyone that treated animals that way . I kept my personal issues where they belonged, between me and Allen.

I apologize for anything harsh , I had to bring emotions up to give the answer ya'll wanted. There it is. I have nothing to gain by this and everything to loose. I have no reason to lie. I have 2 things as a constannt in this world, my word and reputation to do what I said I would.

 

[BryonsBoas]

I'm waiting on call backs now. I live in GA and Allen in AL . I have folks helpig me find the proper people to to turn this over to. Its been very hectic the last few days and I can't move fast enough on everything.

 

[BryonsBoas]

This is the pic for the quarantine comment. On the right is the first 41 qt rack that he threw the new animals in not 2 feet from his breeding rack. Call it what you want.

 

[chondroqueen]

ok, I am a little behind on this thread, but on page18 Allen states that he has several snakes regurge every week.What?! If they are HEALTHY they should NEVER regurge. I have kept snakes for eight years now and you wanna know how many snakes I have had regurge in this period? ONE. In eight years. Not several a week. Something is definitely wrong with his husbandry, he just admitted it. And quarantining together? What in the world?!?!? Part of the REASON beind quaranting is so that OTHER animals do not get sick. If you have numerous new snakes in a cage you cant tell which one (if any) is ill AND you just infected the whole lot! Great thinking there Allen.

 

[Cat_72]

You know, there's so many commenting on the "legal aspects" of all of this.

What the heck happened to those who actually cared about these ANIMALS??? Regardless of ANY of Bryon's motives (which I personally believe were nothing but admirable), those pictures speak for themselves. They make me SICK. If those of you that are too busy preaching about the legal aspects of this are more concerned with WHY Bryon did this than why those animals are in this condition.......perhaps you should step back and take a look at your own motives for being here.

 

[BryonsBoas]

Allen

Backtracking are you?

As for Bryon: The e-mail that I sent him that he has posted was before I knew of this thread.

So what are you saying? Contradicting yourself there guy. You admitted to it and now your not? Only 4 huh? We had at least 20 or so between Columbia and Birmingham.Where did the other 16 or so come from? Did ya take a wild guess?

 

[Chameleon Company]

Bryon. That's a lot of post !

I've put a few words in this thread myself. I am going to take a few of your words:

The reason I left was because I personally was taken advantage of by Allen.

My PM to you asked you very directly about whether or not you sat with Allen before you left, and told him you were quitting and why. Did you quit because of his lack of husbandry concerns, or did other issues come into it. Did you give him the courtesy of telling him "I quit" when you left?

Did I blindside Allen? Yup. Same as I would have with anyone else. Does Allen know that I would? YES .

Have you been forthcoming in all that you have done in this "blindside"? Better to hear it from you than someone else.

From your last post Bryon:
I did this so no one would have a terrible first experience coming into this hobby.
From your first post, #1, the first sentance:
I worked for Allen for 6 weeks after dealing him with his shop for over a year. When dealing with his shop I had very few problems.

For over a year, there was a difference between what you got, and what you found in the six weeks working for him. Just luck, I guess.

Lest anyone doubt where I stand. I think Allen's reptile room, as pictured needs a lot of work. I think animals are kept in substandard conditions. There are no excuses, because we all know that better is very possible. Whether for business or animal compassion reasons, it makes sense. I would not recommend buying from him at this juncture. I'm inclined to think that this episode has had a positive effect on him realizing the need to do better. Time will tell.

Bryon, for you to so brazenly think that its OK to blindside Allen, who trusted you with tens of thousands of dollars of animals, fronted you Christmas money, and at least not only gave you a job, but wanted you for the job ..... you just don't get it! How convenient to just put aside any concievable obligation that you had to sit with him, at least thank him for his faith in you, and make it "me me me .... I couldn't take it any damn more". Its not that you needed to do something Bryon, its how you did it ! There could have been several legitimate ways to pursue this short of trying to destroy his business. Sitting with him before you quit was one, and in my book you owed him that !! Or maybe, after quitting (you never told him you quit, did you), you could then have sat with him. But no, after your last day of working there, you continue to solicit information for your expose, emailing Allen? Still can't tell him what's up? You never told him anything about your plans until the thread began !! And there's lots more details, eh? You had been planning this for several days, eh? Look at the date in the papers !! Tell us more about the communications with all of Bryon's customers, who like your first sentance in post #1 Bryon, may have "had very few problems." If they had been long term customers of Allen's, do you think maybe they were content for that long term? Lets send them an email link to this thread ! Oooops, already did that!

You didn't keep the "personal" separate. You wrapped yourself in it.

I wish you all the best in your next job, and I truly mean that.

 

[Chameleon Company]

Kathy, I'll field your question.

Cat 72 says:
If those of you that are too busy preaching about the legal aspects of this are more concerned with WHY Bryon did this than why those animals are in this condition.......perhaps you should step back and take a look at your own motives for being here.

I spoke with Alabama DNR today. Did you?

 

[Scott Ashton]

Jim:

Let's be honest.

You have indeed sided with Allen almost from the beginning of this thread.

I'm not quite sure why.

I'd tend to think that, as a business owner yourself you are inclined to defend the position of a business owner.

If we are to believe you, you have no prior business or personal relationships with Allen. So what other motive could you have except taking the innate position of a business owner?

I can actually buy into that reasoning (heck - its mine). The only other possibility that I could see, since I'm taking your word that you have no prior relationship with Allen - is (hypothetically of course) that you are engaged in something much more insidious. Perhaps you've circled the wagon around a fellow reptile business owner. You know "thin blue line" syndrome.

Truthfully, I'd respect your stance if you didn't keep hiding it behind the thin veneer of your own very special blend of analysis and hypotheticals.

 

[Fedawg]

Jim (Chamco),

I would love to know your reasoning to coming into every single thread on the BOI and acting like you do in this thread. You try to take authority as if you are far superior to others. You try to challenge peoples knowledge and attack Bryons integrity , yet in many other threads , you come down on people for doing the exact same thing. Does that sound familiar JIm , or should i post some PM's that me and you had about another thread explaining how i have no right to question anyones integrity.

You come in here posting and criticizing Bryon , trying to get personally involved in this by making phone calls and emails to Allen , like this even personally involves you in anyway. Then you procede to throw up legal knowledge that doesnt even make sense. Jim , like i have said before , i will gladly put my legal knowledge up against yours anytime . Well, last time i said that , you failed to give me a response.

Jim , your "big" words do not scare people , and you shouldn't treat people as if they are ignorant or illiterate. You have nothing to do with this situtation , so shouldnt get personally involved.

Jim , if you think it is such a good idea to contact the authorities about Allen's place and the conditions he keeps his animals in , then why don;t you do it yourself??? Instead of bringing that up to try to hurt Bryon's character.

Once again Jim , i will gladly put my legal knowledge up against yours anytime , send me an email.

Good day

Derek Federico

 

[BryonsBoas]

Did I tell him I quit on Friday? No. I went home and wrestled with the idea Friday night and Saturday to make sure this was what I wanted to do. This was my decision.

I can repeat myself only so many times dude. Just like at Allen's. Your not getting the point Ive made so many times. I HAVE BROUGHT UP THE CONDITIONS , I HAVE GIVEN HIM ADVICE , if he didn't listen then , with the animals and nasty tubs right there in front of him what makes you think he was going to listen to me on Monday? or Tuesday? . Geeez dude , talking to you is like talking to a brick wall. Am I speaking english? Anyone here is going to say the same thing only so many times before they walk away. Trying to get you to understand this is just as futile as getting Allen to do the reptiles the right way.


How about this , just for once , pick the bad guy apart. He's already contradicted himself on this thread. Go tinkle in his wheeties for a bit . I already said myself I could have done this any number of ways and I did it this way.

How is this a me thing? Your the one on a soapbox ? Your the "resident expert " here . One phone conversation with the guy and its all my fault huh? Dude , I lived this crap for 6 weeks. The difference between his shop and the wholesale is I popped into his shop once a month or 2. I was there almost everyday for 6 weeks. Don't even try to judge me bro . You didn't walk in my shoes , I did. You've been at me since the start .

" Oh Allen needs a little help with cleanin tubs but Bryon is the antichrist " . Get real dude. You weren't there when customers coming to me with animals that fell over dead from the previous show and gettimg told " Can't help ya ".

Yeah , I just wrapped myself all in myself . Whatever dude. Go find a different church to preach at . In case you didn't notice , I didn't brin personal crap into this , Allen did .

 

[Chameleon Company]

Scott.

Scott says:
Let's be honest.

You have indeed sided with Allen almost from the beginning of this thread.

Read all of my posts Scott. I'm in the middle, which just happens to be on the Allen side of many of you. Its not the Allen side. Do not suggest that I have not been honest.

.....I'd respect your stance if you didn't keep hiding it behind the thin veneer .......

Disrespect me then. Did I mince words in my last post? I didn't go with the majority on this one Scott. Others got it from my posts, and understood me. You don't !!

 

[shrap]

Its amazing to me Jim that you take every word that Allen has told you at face value, but question, make innuendos and hypotheticals about every aspect of Bryon's posts. It is YOU SIR, that "just don't get it".

 

[Chameleon Company]

Scott, I massacred the quotes.

Scott says:
Let's be honest.

You have indeed sided with Allen almost from the beginning of this thread.

Read all of my posts Scott. I'm in the middle, which just happens to be on the Allen side of many of you. Its not the Allen side. Do not suggest that I have not been honest.

.....I'd respect your stance if you didn't keep hiding it behind the thin veneer .......

Did I mince words in my last post? I didn't go with the majority on this one Scott. Others got it from my posts, and understood me. You don't !! Just gonna have to disrespect me.