Bad Guy Andrew Hermes of Arizona Tortoise Compound

[demonseed38]

That's what it seems like to me. I would have had it flown to me n e way. That's the safest route.

 

[ErikL]

Again someone not reading the whole thread. I was at my house where the tortoise was to be delivered the first attempt that was made. This has been hashed out so many times. My understanding from ups was that the tortoise was stuck in Ontario California in the day it was to be delivered, a 6 plus hour drive. Why? Because the package broke. The tortouse died because its box was put in a plastic bag. It has been opined in several posts before that had the box not broken and be placed in a plastic bag that the delay would not have resulted in death. I would encourage anyone reading these posts to review what has been posted previously. The tortouse I sent Andrew arrived alive and well. It was my responsibility until he recieved it. Had it arrived dead, I would have immediately sent a certified check for the value upon seeing conformation of death.

 

[demonseed38]

Well it's not Andrews fault then. So don't trash him

 

[ErikL]

It was his responsibility to package the tortouse properly and his responsibility that it be delivered in time as it was my responsibility for the tortoise that I sent him. Had my tortoise arrived dead, it would have been my fault, that his arrived dead to me is his fault. End of story.

 

[demonseed38]

It's not his fault the mail system damaged the package then repacked it wrong. It's their fault and that's who I would go after

 

[Fangthane]

It's not his fault the mail system damaged the package then repacked it wrong. It's their fault and that's who I would go after

If a live arrival guarantee is offered, any shipping errors are the seller's fault, by default. In this situation, "fault" and "responsibility" are wholly synonymous. While we'll likely never fully know exactly how it happened - ATC very well may have poorly packaged it, which would absolutely make it his fault - the tort's death is entirely his responsibility. He failed to provide his part of the trade in it's described condition, which means that he owes Erik. It really is as simple as that. I'm not really buying any of ATC's subsequent stories about his supposed broker status or the alleged death of the tort Erik sent; but his rationalizations are completely irrelevant, as they don't change my basic premise. He entered into this deal with Erik, so it's his mess to clean up, regardless of who supposedly owned the ill-fated tort he sent to Erik.

ATC has done nothing more than offer lame excuses, while hiding behind a laughable TOS page and an orchestrated lot of typically dim-witted sycophants. It'd seem that the shortbus may have just dropped two more of you off. Whatever your motivations may truly be, you guys really should put in the effort to actually read and understand a thread before making moronic comments.

he OP claims UPS did not deliver on the next day(Mar 19), but the 2nd day(Mar 20).

who in the right mind would miss next day delivery, and NOT drop by at the UPS hub for their town/city that same evening to pick up their missed delivery?

I am not sure what your interest is in this after all this time. I tracked it and was working the day it arrived, I called ups multiple times to find out about the status, the major hold up was in southern California, 6 hrs from my house, again I was working.

Here's a fun fact: Phoenix, Az to Ontario, Ca is about a 5 hour drive; apparently roughly equidistant to Erik's respective proximity to the UPS hub that held the package. With that in mind, why would you not expect at least as much effort out of the seller, considering he's just as close as Erik was? You expect a buyer to be able to drop his life on a whim, to fix someone else's botched responsibility; but you don't seem to expect the actual shipper to accept any culpability for any part of the situation. That's a very interesting take on what an online seller's responsibilities are. Might wanna hope that prospective customers don't catch your posts here.

 

[demonseed38]

Man. If the tortoise was that expensive and I was only 5 hrs away. I would have driven their my self and hand picked it. There's no excuse for neglect

 

[msean]

It has been almost a year since last post.
This thing has been beat to death. There may be some new viewers who have their 2 cents without reading 200+ posts.
The bottom line has not changed.
It is clear and documented:
1. The tortoise was packaged poorly.
2. The packaging fell apart likely after a stressed tortoise urinated.
3. Tortoise was repackaged in a plastic bag w no access to air.
4. Tortoise died of asphyxiation in under an hour while still many hours away.
How this is OP fault is beyond me. If u critics would stop smoking pot for a few minutes and have a clear thought for once u would agree.
Andrew should be happy the OP has not posted more as he has had an extra year to continue to do what he does.
Also, why the OP has not filed a law suit in small claims baffles me also.
The dead tortoise that is in the ground or in a freezer should have its day in court.

 

[Arizona Tortoise Compound]

Here is the hard proof we know that is not hear say or options...

Here is a video of the tortoise, pretty much before it was shipped out years ago or how ever long it has been. One can clearly see it was amazing animal. I still think about that tortoise, no other has ever came close to how friendly that one was. So disappointing..-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tWkFGAbxlKU

I breed tortoises as a hobby and business, I am clearly in the market to produce healthy tortoises and have them do well for customers, for repeat business. I would never ship an already dead tortoise out. I do not ship tortoise not properly labeled, its against the law and could put me out of business.

Here is a youtube video link to customers receiving packages. One can clearly see how the tortoises are shipped out here at A.T.C. through Fed Ex. 100% labeled, packaged correctly and was shipped out overnight correctly as well. (I have not used UPS since this problem with Erik).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8YH4n2q3ruM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7EKr4REVaFc

Eriks package was shipped the same way as per his request instead of through the airlines in a plastic rubber maid container that could of gotten the tortoise there quicker with less hours traveled.

Yes, we all know that 2 days being placed in a box, a tortoise will urinate. If shipping was not delayed, the tortoise would of arrived before the box breaking down from the moisture. We do not know which location or at which point it was bagged. We do know it was day two.

Yes, the first day the tortoise did get delayed in Ontario, missed the deadline and was not there for the 1030am arrival in Oakdale. UPS did continue the tortoise on its way to Eriks closest hub in Modesto (just west of Oakdale) that evening and they offered for Erik to pick it up in the morning, first thing when they opened due to it being to late in the evening and being after hours when the tortoise would arrive. Erik told UPS himself to put the tortoise on a truck for a 5pm delivery that afternoon instead of him picking it up. UPS does not do daily truck Overnight deliveries from Ontario to Oakdale. Oakdale is delivery by closer hubs then Ontario like Modesto. The UPS truck delivery driver did his route around Eriks city with the tortoise on board. -
https://www.ups.com/dropoff?loc=en_US&WT.svl=PriNav
https://www.google.com/maps/place/1...2!3m1!1s0x8090faa6d662340d:0xde46564f8700f325
https://www.google.com/maps/place/O...2!3m1!1s0x8090f81eae2e6def:0x3a7f2a99822e8698

Its a catch 22 for me, do I not defend myself from a few others exaggerated options or comments in worry of it looking like excuses or do I just let it out.....

Erik has never shared any proof to any of his claims, no email, no links, nothing!
I have backed and showed proof to everything I have stated in this thread from the beginning. This has been a learning curve for my business, I consulted an attorney on this matter long time ago. I have all documents, statement, proof, records, everything nicely filled for if I ever may need it in the future from Erik's threats of taking it to court. Also keep a bank roll on hand if this ever happens again so I can meet unexpected deadlines.

Erik wanted his money back and the tortoise that was apart of the trade deal. The money I received and tortoise was already passed on the the third party by the time we found out about the dead tortoise. Once I told him that, he wanted the full money back by a certain deadline of a few days or he would post a bad guy BOI. My funds would not have cleared from paypal and the banks in time of deadline. I offered him free tortoises for life, being at cost if I purchased it or free if I produced it. (I have many different species in different ages that could of made up the costs very easily)I made this offer to him cause my heart went out for him and the tortoise and also I did not want a bad guy post on here. That is how bad I did not want this post to go up and he knew this. I told him before his boi post, that if he did post negativity I would not work with him to get him the funds or tortoises back and I would retract my offers. Just as Erik decided not to pick up the tortoise from the UPS hub, he also decided to post a bad guy thread rather then working me or allowing adequate time to handle the situation.

I still operate my business with the same terms and conditions as before and still continue to provide healthy tortoise to the public. This thread has helped in many ways... Some potential buyers come across this thread and all leave with the understanding it is in the best interest of both the buyers and sells part to be proactive and strive to do anything they can to ensure the health of the tortoises being shipped.

Customers have a responsibility to ensure they provide the correct shipping information and address, so we are able to ship to the proper locations. Also customers have the responsibility of using the tracking numbers provided and being pro active with communication when things get delayed. If the package doesn't show up at 1030 am at the time it was paid for do not wait until 5 pm at the end of the day to let someone know about the problem. Earlier warning could potentially save a life.

Sellers have responsibilities as well. At Arizona Tortoise Compound we strive for proper shipping methods, communication with customers, clear detailed photos, instructions about care and previous housing. We ensure healthy animals that have been well taken care of. We actually breed and maintain the adult breeding groups of almost every species being offer through the site. (current exceptions being, Aldabras and Burmese Stars) Any concerns customers have we are extremely willing to help in any way possible. We know the proper ways to ship our tortoises for live deliver, but we are no longer willing to ship by different methods per customers requests, even if they are understanding of braking the terms and conditions on the site. Many people ask for a Saturday receiving through Fed EX and we will not risk it even if customers are willing to pay more.

Just as much as I would like this thread to die down, it is also a good learning tool for others if you can get passed the options and some falsehoods by some others and competitors.

Thank you, Andrew Hermes
Arizona Tortoise Compound
http://www.arizonatortoisecompound.com/
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Arizona-Tortoise-Compound/179857695368687?ref=hl

 

[neilg]

Eriks package was shipped the same way as per his request instead of through the airlines in a plastic rubber maid container that could of gotten the tortoise there quicker with less hours traveled.

Erik told UPS himself to put the tortoise on a truck for a 5pm delivery that afternoon instead of him picking it up.

I offered him free tortoises for life, being at cost if I purchased it or free if I produced it.

Just as Erik decided not to pick up the tortoise from the UPS hub, he also decided to post a bad guy thread rather then working me or allowing adequate time to handle the situation.

I still operate my business with the same terms and conditions as before and still continue to provide healthy tortoise to the public. This thread has helped in many ways... Some potential buyers come across this thread and all leave with the understanding it is in the best interest of both the buyers and sells part to be proactive and strive to do anything they can to ensure the health of the tortoises being shipped.

Customers have a responsibility to ensure they provide the correct shipping information and address, so we are able to ship to the proper locations. Also customers have the responsibility of using the tracking numbers provided and being pro active with communication when things get delayed. If the package doesn't show up at 1030 am at the time it was paid for do not wait until 5 pm at the end of the day to let someone know about the problem. Earlier warning could potentially save a life.

Sellers have responsibilities as well. At Arizona Tortoise Compound we strive for proper shipping methods, communication with customers, clear detailed photos, instructions about care and previous housing. We ensure healthy animals that have been well taken care of. We actually breed and maintain the adult breeding groups of almost every species being offer through the site. (current exceptions being, Aldabras and Burmese Stars) Any concerns customers have we are extremely willing to help in any way possible. We know the proper ways to ship our tortoises for live deliver, but we are no longer willing to ship by different methods per customers requests, even if they are understanding of braking the terms and conditions on the site. Many people ask for a Saturday receiving through Fed EX and we will not risk it even if customers are willing to pay more.

Just as much as I would like this thread to die down, it is also a good learning tool for others if you can get passed the options and some falsehoods by some others and competitors.

Thank you, Andrew Hermes
Arizona Tortoise Compound
http://www.arizonatortoisecompound.com/
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Arizona-Tortoise-Compound/179857695368687?ref=hl

wow.. that was breathtakingly 'bigger picture' for lack of better words, for all those in the business of shipping (or simply occasionally receiving) live animals - in this day and age of a highly litigious society.

it is a bloody shame that UPS does not actually honor insurance on live animals. (they may allow insurance to be purchased, but not actually honor it if a claim is made on fauna that has been damaged or lost, due to the highly perishable nature of animal life).

lucky for you, your 'terms and conditions' as part of your sale/trade, in writing, was that live arrivals were (and still are) guaranteed unless carrier delays.

Man. If the tortoise was that expensive and I was only 5 hrs away. I would have driven their my self and hand picked it. There's no excuse for neglect

ditto.

 

[ErikL]

This has been re-hashed so many times. After careful consideration, if Andrew would like to send me three live radiated hatchlings with live arrival guarantee via air freight to the sacramento airport in California at no cost to me, I'll consider the matter closed. I think that's fair.

 

[demonseed38]

I just got got my sulcata at the airport in Jax. He's nice. And he was packed very good. Note for all. Have them flown in. Especially turtles

 

[ErikL]

I am happy that you had a good experience and would likewise be happy if Andrew and I could resolve this. It would be my pleasure to place a "good guy" post should we be able to do so.

 

[demonseed38]

Maybe so. I do know he sent me a very good quality sulcata

 

[alex bleas]

The tortoises was dead on arrival. This guy needs a complete refund.

 

[demonseed38]

It wasn't his fault for one thing. You should have picked your package up on time. Really . He didn't have to even offer a replacement because you neglected to get your turtle when it was being delivered. The idiots at the post office had no business trying to fix a damaged package with a live animal in it. But you should have gotten your animal even if it meant taking off from work. If I were him. I would never sell you an animal or replace it because it's very clear that you are neglectful and irresponsible.

 

[demonseed38]

Say what you will but I will bet that any one on here will agree with myself and Andrew. You screwed your self. And with the evidence he has. Really he could sue you for slander. So some good advice. Get your self straight and quit bashing someone over your neglect

 

[Skinker]

Maybe so. I do know he sent me a very good quality sulcata

I don't care if their torts crap diamonds, I would never do business with a company harboring such a major unresolved issue.

 

[LORDOFWAR187]

Was the sulcata compensation for your positive comments demonseed38? I have read every post in thus thread the first delay was roughly a 6 hour drive for both the buyer, an d the shipper in what insane logic do you come up with insinuating the buyer should have made the drive when the shipper who received his compensation was equally close? The turtle was not packaged properly causing the delay. There have been roughly 200 hundred post,and only roughly 3 of you siding with ATC so no sir almost no one agrees with you.

 

[Bobby Douglass]

Say what you will but I will bet that any one on here will agree with myself and Andrew. You screwed your self. And with the evidence he has. Really he could sue you for slander. So some good advice. Get your self straight and quit bashing someone over your neglect

You lose.