crotalusadamanteus
Brother Infidel
Reptiles are different then other animals. Dosing and types of anesthetics used is different than other animals also.
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I found a couple mites back in early 2008 after a show on bedding... After that the mites I had were from bedding at NARBC 2009 when I decided to try aspen again... After that I have not had ANY mites since until Kyle's animals got here, which sucks... We found mites on them in late Sept. or Early Oct. and we treated them and none of my animals had them and still don't, BUT I DID treat all mine too...
.Angel Rojas lied about the jamp... He TOLD me on the phone that the pics he was sending me, and posted on the BOI were "a little older" and he was in shed so he couldn't take new pics... Yes, I paid shipping for the snake, and yes he told me the jamp was very friendly and easy to handle... The jamp is NOT a friendly and easy to handle animal and he DID come with a fucked up mouth... Crystal saw him, her dad saw him, Kyle saw him and a non-herp fried saw him too... All within a few days of my actually getting the snake...
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If the mites came from Kyle's animals, as you claim, why keep them? I'd tell that person, friend or not, his mite infested animals could not stay there ... but, my bad ... I'm a responsible person who owns things she does.
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One of the cages (a Boaphile 421D) is at Ashley's place, but was empty at the time if memory serves. Now it's currently holding one of her half dwarf retics. .....
you really don't KNOW that the snakes didn't come from the seller with the mites, and to insinuate Kyle's snakes carried them is preposterous. Kyle's snakes were in YOUR care, so therefore they were YOUR responsibility. They came with NO mites, and now you want to insinuate they came from him?
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.I'll dispute it.
I've got decades in this hobby. I've bought countless bales of subtrate from various sources. I've yet to have problem with snake mites in bedding.
I've also never run across a fellow keeper who can actually confirm their snake mite problems came from substrate.
Snake mites come from snakes who carry them. Without proper QT procedures how can any one blame this on the bedding?
When you are dealing with multiple new acqusitions, quarantine and prophylactic treatment of external parasites is of paramount importance.
Sticking your thumb up your bum and doing nothing and then blaming the bedding just doesn't cut it.
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I'll also ask again:
Did you TELL Dr. Jacobson you'd had MULTIPLE deaths?
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.I know they Kyle is now finding a vet to get his snakes tested, he's concerned about having to have them anesthetized at this point :/
From: Kyle Finn [[email protected]]
Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 2010 11:06 PM
To: Jacobson,Elliott R
Cc: Ashley Caspillo
Subject: Liver biopsy on suspected IBD boa
Hi Dr. Jacobson,
Let me first introduce myself, my name is Kyle Finn. I am a previous employee of Eugene Bessette and have met you a couple times when you've visited his facility. I'm the tall thin guy with long hair. A friend and I would very much like some information on IBD related to her case. I am very much interested in getting her snakes tested for IBD because she's currently housing 10 of my boa constrictors.
She had a juvenile boa constrictor (Boa constrictor longicauda) die in November 2009 and the necropsy report showed intracytoplasmic inclusion bodies in the liver, intestines, and brain. I have attached images of the necropsy report (the original unfortunately has been misplaced). Three other snakes have died shortly after the boa (a burmese python, a boa constrictor, and reticulated python) though none of them showed inclusion bodies in their pathology reports. The burmese python did have anorexia, problems with locomotion, and a case of stomatitis. The burm's necropsy report is attached as well. I would lilke your thoughts on whether or not I should be concerned for the well being of both her's and my collections.
I know that a liver biospy can be performed to determine presence of IBD, would you (or the Vet School) be able to perform this test and diagnose the findings? She lives in Texas and I live here in Gainesville. Would it be best for her to find a vet close to her to do the biopsy and send the samples to the Vet School for analysis or have her ship a couple snakes here for testing at the Vet School?
Thank you for your time. If you have any questions, please don't hesitate to call me.
Kyle Finn
352-870-6497
RE: Liver biopsy on suspected IBD boa
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From:
"Jacobson,Elliott R" <[email protected]>
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Add to Contacts
To: Kyle Finn <[email protected]>
Cc: "Chang,Li-Wen" <[email protected]>
10 IBDReview JexoticPet.pdf (3013KB)
Kyle:
I am always concerned when several snakes die in a collection over short period of time. The Texas Diagnostic Laboratory path report sounds typical of IBD. In November I received images of a boa constrictor with IBD from the Texas Diagnostic Lab.They may be from the same snake. The inclusions were numerous and typical. Some snakes appear to have many inclusions and some few. Some may only have them in the brain and some in very specific areas of the brain. I have seen cases where there is inflammation in the brain and those with none. It is possible that some of these snakes have both IBD and another pathogen (possibly a virus). Unfortunately trying to sort this out is expensive and labor intensive. I have a grad student, Rita Chang, who is working on IBD for her PhD research. She has developed an antibody that recognizes the IBD protein and can stain it. Our current recommendation is to first screen blood films of suspect snakes. At least with boa constrictors, many with IBD have inclusions in the blood. I do not know if pythons also have peripherally circulating cells with inclusions since relatively few cases of IBD are being reported in pythons. With boas, we do not know how many snakes that have no inclusions in blood still have inclusions in internal tissues. We do not have enough cases where snakes have been completely worked up to no what the correlation is. However, when we identify the inclusions in blood we definitely know that that snake has IBD. So we are now use this as the first screening test for IBD. If a snake turns out to be negative then other diagnostics would be needed. The test is expensive and is $100.00 per blood sample. Whole blood in lithium heparin tubes is needed for testing. This is shipped to us on ice packs overnight. Rita Chang who does the processing and staining of these samples will be gone for one month and will have the test running soon after she returns in early January.
See attached paper that just came out that reviews IBD. Feel free to contact me if you have any questions.
Elliott Jacobson
Professor of Zoological Medicine
Partially true... Ashley told me she took them in first and the vet was unable to get blood from a ventral tail stick. So the vet recommended having them brought back to be anesthetized for a heart stick. Having them anesthetized for the heart stick raises my concern.
As far as I know, Tim Cole ie on pretty good terms with her, so good luck with that.
As far as I know, Tim Cole ie on pretty good terms with her, so good luck with that.