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Bill Leverton SCAMMER beware

Something else that disturbs me is that when you were questioned about this on Reptibid in the Q & A section of the auction, you (Bill) state:

Lee you really do need to explain what your saying about me, Yes i did buy a 2' hypo Dh from you(which was lost in transit) But this is not a hypo this is a barely 18" 100% Dh Im selling so please explain.And to say I finally got caught what did I get caught at?????
Click to expand...

Does anyone else see what is bothering me in the above statement? A double het ghost Bci has to be a hypo, right? Someone confirm this for me please, my brain still isn't functioning properly.
 
both animals are hypos

both animals are hypos--terminology can be confusing when mixing codoms--the absolute proper term would be hypo het anery--both snakes in question are hypos---because both snakes in question are the same snake.
 
Yes a DH ghost is hypo as the het form of this mutation still displays hypomelanism (if homozygous, it would be a superhypo). And yes the snake in both pics is a hypo. as for the size thing. We are talking about 6 inches, and Lee may have just guessed at it. It is not at all unusual for that sort of thing to happen. In fact, I have found that most people do not tape measure their snakes, they just give it their best guess.
 
both animals are hypos--terminology can be confusing when mixing codoms--the absolute proper term would be hypo het anery--both snakes in question are hypos---because both snakes in question are the same snake.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the clarification Ben.
 
"Lee you really do need to explain what your saying about me, Yes i did buy a 2' hypo Dh from you(which was lost in transit) But this is not a hypo this is a barely 18" 100% Dh Im selling so please explain.And to say I finally got caught what did I get caught at????? " quote from Reptibid Q&A by Bill Leverton

I have to say this does not look good at all.
 
Posture of the snake.

KelliH said:
That is the same boa, I agree 100% with what Ben said in his post. There are way too many identical markings!

Bill, if that is not the same snake, why Pay Pal the $200? Wouldn't you rather prove that it is not the same snake and that you are not a "scammer" as the title of this post suggests?

If you are sure it is not the same snake, borrow a digital camera, take photos from all angles, especially similar angles as the original pics sent to you of the snake that you say escaped out of the UPS box. Surely someone you know has a digital camera?
Click to expand...

I have to agree with Kelli. I've been overlaying and merging the photos pretty much since the photos were posted. They do appear identical.

It leads me to believe that if this animal is photographed in a different "posture", not so much angle or camera position, that it might reveal this is the same snake.

Bill, if you cant borrow a digital camera than just pick up a few good disposables and have them processed to CD. You'll be able to post the pictures that way at far less the cost of buying a new digital or the hassle of having to borrow one.
 
To be honest I don't really know what else to say on this whole thing, I presented all I have in the way of proof and by me offering to send the money to Lee makes me look guilty then so be it. I will admit that I don't Know as much about genetics as I should, I can only go by what people tell me DH- Hypo I guess I need to take a step back and become more knowledgable before I try to sell the snakes I have :)
 
i gotta say i feel bad for lee

i feel for you-i do not know if we have ever talked or met or done business, but i know exactly how you feel--intial exhiliration and then anger. I love 99.9 of my customers--most of them are good repeat people that i talk to and like to meet at shows. I have become friendly with many of them. However there is always that one in a million who just the thought of there name makes you burn. In ways i am envious of lee(the fact that he was able to compare photos).
 
Bill, I'm afraid you really need to take some more pics of that snake as well as the box it was shipped in before this is going to go away.
 
Bill,

I’ve always been an advocate for the picture ID, particularly in distinctively-patterned species. But in this instance the similarities between these two animals are stunning. Even after thoroughly looking at two pictures of two animals with 20 plus saddles, we can’t agree if it’s a different animal or not. In my opinion sending the $200 to end this thread will actually have the opposite effect what you are willing to accomplish. That kind of money (even double it if you need to, after all it’s an investment) will be better invested in a digital camera. You don’t need a fancy one here, just one that will show critical areas where similarities and differences have been pointed out already. Probably nothing in the filed of biology is impossible. Maybe you have found the identical twin of Lee’s snake! One way or the other the circumstances around this case call for extreme measures, and those are not returning the money and forgetting about what has been said. If as you say you want to clear this up you need to prove beyond any doubt that these are two animals and not the same. Opinions are really divided here, but by sending the $200 you will leave nearly half of the people with more doubts than they already have.

Regards.
 
I have been going over the pics over and over from the time this was first posted, and I am convinced that they are without a doubt the same snake in my opinion. The only way that Bill can account for this and save face is if maybe the person he bought his batch of boas from is an employee for the delivery company that delivered the "snakeless" box with the hole in it to him. That would be just another huge coincidence now wouldn't it. Nothing in Bills defense adds up. The fact that the snakes are identical, The no camera thing (come on, we live in modern times), the fact that he is selling exactly the same thing that he was looking to buy just a little while ago. And, why in the world would he want 2 DH ghost males? And then when he it gets "lost", he decides to sell the other that looks identical to the one he says he never got. On the other hand, Lees situation is making a world of sense to me. Bill has a great rep, and I am wondering if maybe Bill felt that that rep would cast enough doubt on Lees story.
 
No Bill thats not it...

Clearwater_Reptiles said:
To be honest I don't really know what else to say on this whole thing, I presented all I have in the way of proof and by me offering to send the money to Lee makes me look guilty then so be it. I will admit that I don't Know as much about genetics as I should, I can only go by what people tell me DH- Hypo I guess I need to take a step back and become more knowledgable before I try to sell the snakes I have :)
Click to expand...

You're a Faunaclassified Certified Good Guy. Thats it. Thats why the hammer is being dropped down hard here. Paying Lee any amount of money doesn't dissolve the fact that many firmly believe this is the same snake. To those who believe it is the same snake...well....you're only paying him what you owe him.

This post is not about what you do know or don't know about genetics. Its not about you taking a step back before trying to sell the remaining snakes you have. Its about the one snake you stated was lost in transit, but yet appears to be part of your current collection.

Heck, I'll tell you what, before you pay Lee back, send the snake to me. I'll foot the shipping bill on the way to me and you foot the bill on the way back to you. I'll take a ton of photos for you and post them. I'd like to be wrong in this Bill. Help me out.
 
busted

busted-plain and simple---busted to the core-BUSTED WIDE OPEN---over-done with--i think bill should pay for the balance owed on the snake for starters, and anything else he might think of to make amends for this terrible trangression. Alot of people may have doubts, but those are the same snakes--i keep going back and looking at the pics, and instead of finding difference, just keep on finding more similarities. :uzi: :uzi: :uzi: :uzi:
 
Bill, PM me your address and Imm priority mail you my Digimax430 tomorrow and you can send it back to me next week. Then you can take pics at different angles and try to get pics in the same position as the pics of Lee's.
 
"Heck, I'll tell you what, before you pay Lee back, send the snake to me. I'll foot the shipping bill on the way to me and you foot the bill on the way back to you. I'll take a ton of photos for you and post them. I'd like to be wrong in this Bill. Help me out."

I will be willing to do the same thing as well. And if it is deemed to be a different snake by the Fauna viewers, I will foot the bill both ways. However, if it is agreed by the vast majority to be the same snake than you can pay the shipping both ways. Sound fair?
 
"Bill, PM me your address and Imm priority mail you my Digimax430 tomorrow and you can send it back to me next week. Then you can take pics at different angles and try to get pics in the same position as the pics of Lee's."

Another very generous offer for you Bill. Wendy, that is very nice of you to offer your camera to help clear this all up.
 
OK this will be my last post on this, If I'm labled a scammer then so be it. James and everyone else I cant explain why they look alike. I know how this all went down and I'm sticking by it ...James I didn't go to Texas to buy snakes. I went to visit my daughter and was approached about buying them.. When I bought the DH from Lee all I had was the picture that was posted here and when I bought this male I didn't really give it a second thought. about my rep points and my good Certif....Take them away I cant explain any of this and I really don't have the energy to try...So I'm leaving You all with this thought You have to believe what is in your heart and In mine I feel like because of lack of evidence on my part, I'm sunk to the bottom of the scum pile and If I'm ostracized from this community because of this Well I guess I just say good bye now...And Like i said earlier Lee will get his money, and with that I will say good bye.. :toiletcla
 
"OK this will be my last post on this, If I'm labled a scammer then so be it. James and everyone else I cant explain why they look alike. I know how this all went down and I'm sticking by it ...James I didn't go to Texas to buy snakes. I went to visit my daughter and was approached about buying them.. When I bought the DH from Lee all I had was the picture that was posted here and when I bought this male I didn't really give it a second thought. about my rep points and my good Certif....Take them away I cant explain any of this and I really don't have the energy to try...So I'm leaving You all with this thought You have to believe what is in your heart and In mine I feel like because of lack of evidence on my part, I'm sunk to the bottom of the scum pile and If I'm ostracized from this community because of this Well I guess I just say good bye now...And Like i said earlier Lee will get his money, and with that I will say good bye.. "

Bill,

This may sound odd, but if you did not do what it looks like you have done, than leaving is the most foolish thing you could do. Other options have beem presented. Critical Bill and I would both be happy to examine the snake and photograph it. Or how about another party to be agreed on by both you and Lee. Or how about Wendy's kind offer. If you are not pulling a fast one, than you need to prove it, because the evidence as you already know is not working for you at the moment.
 
The worst thing you can do, seriously...

Bill,

In my opinion you have been “ill-advised”. Just an hour ago you were willing to send $200 to clear your name and now you don’t even accept the generous offer of sending you a camera to take pictures of the snake? If some doubted they were different snakes now with your actions you have confirmed they were right. There were several people giving you the benefit of the doubt (myself included) but your action (or inaction for that matter) is starting to cast a doubt in everyone. You are going to throw away everything and loose your self-respect just because of a picture session? Maybe you misinterpreted what someone said. Holding your position meant proving you were right, not that you are beyond the need to prove it. Please reconsider your stance, we need more good guys. The offer of the camera is very generous and it will not cost you a dime. You were willing to pay $200 to end this thread but now you are ready to throw your reputation away over some pictures you refuse to take? I’m sorry but something is not adding up, or on the other hand, is adding up pretty fast but pointing in the wrong direction. :(
 
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