Briarpatch herps??????? AGAIN

[NEWReptiles]

Who the heck is Brian?

LOL, I'd have to venture a guess and say he meant Briar?

I went through the entire thread again, and thats the only name that seems close.

 

[pregius]

Bill Horn

If you can respond here how about responding to my emails or phone calls....I am getting frustrated

Steve

[email protected]

 

[BriarpatchHerps]

Sorry bud, your recent emails got snagged by the Spam filter. I wrote you on the 12th and it shows you read it, which has been since you left me a message. The note helped, talk soon.

 

[TimCoplan]

Id watch him, hes pretty good at altering emails!

 

[Jerry Dorgan]

Brairpatch Herps

Seamus,

How wonderful we all should feel that you, from your throne of intelligence, have taken the time to bless us with more of your dribble. But I think you may have missed the boat on this one.

Nobody said Briar or you or anybody can't ask whatever they want, for whatever it is they are selling....the focus of this thred was started on a person mixing words to make a sale...period.............

...this is a simple matter............Briar is a salesman.....mixes up words to sell his goods. When caught in his own words he offers excuses up as good as old Wm Clinton.

If I had been the only one he tried this scam on, I would have thought,,,no problem,,,mistakes are made. I passed on the deal anyway. BUT, it's evident Briar has tried this with others at different times......so therefore I have to think......maybe this was not just a mistake.

And as for people with heads up their butts....you described that picture pretty well...is that from personal experience?

 

[BriarpatchHerps]

Pssssssssst Tim?


I altered like twenty emails managed to mail them to you AND post them here in just over three minutes?

Every reply has a time and date stamp, don't be pissed you were wrong. Own up to a mistake................I did.

 

[TimCoplan]

psssssst briarcrap herps i only said that you changed the first email. Thats nowhere near trying to scam people out of thousands of dollars. I have only been arguing over why you said i was selling my collection, not a big deal at all. Id still love to see pics of the parents of your bloodline gtps, and also pedigrees, cause animals with those lineages come with them. ALl of the gtps you had for sale were nothing special and could be found on ks classified for 235 dollars sold as ch. At least I respect them for selling the animals for what they are, not trying to claim hey these guys are CB doing great.

Psssst got any new trades lately?

 

[TimCoplan]

WebSlave 06-05-2003 Shotgun Style Advertising [ View Warned Post ] Your account is now blocked for this stunt!

whats that about briarcrap herps?

did you try to do another "trade"?

 

[Seamus Haley]

So um...

The major point of contention on this thread ends up being a potential trade deal that fell through before being finalized?

If you guys wanna keep arguing about it, it'll be my choice to open the thread again or not but... don't you think it's a sort of foolish thing to go back and forth over?

ALl of the gtps you had for sale were nothing special and could be found on ks classified for 235 dollars sold as ch. At least I respect them for selling the animals for what they are, not trying to claim hey these guys are CB doing great

One thing that might be worth mentioning though... Tim, I think you know as well as everyone else that the majority of GTP avaliable for sale are going to be CB. Wild caught subadult and adult animals are avaliable of course, more and more frequently as locale specific animals but I can't recall offhand hearing of a single instance of massive collection of gravid females. I'm sure it's happened a time or two in the past when a fresh import drops a load of eggs but captive hatched GTPs are nowhere near the majority when it comes to the percentages of captive animals. They aren't ball pythons.

If a GTP is has no scars or ticks it's a fairly safe bet that it was CB. A lot of the locale labels on animals derrived from long term multi-generational captive stock are questionable when applied, but CH GTP that were not also CB are rarities.

 

[Ken Foose]

Tim, you are a rather rude little troll, aren't you? I have no clue who you are, but I sure know I will never deal with you on any level, thanks for the heads up. As far as Briarpatch ( hey, you spelled it wrong by the way) goes, yes, he has a pretty big trade in the works right now, with me. For anyone else, I will state again that I have always been very pleased with every deal I have ever had with Mr. Horn. He is reliable, trustworthy, and knowledgeable, and I hope to have more transactions with him in the future.

 

[David Reid]

Back to the original problem...

And that is, using accepted terms, ie: Pastel, Ghost, Axanthic...for nothing more than $5 CH, African imports. Unacceptable, no matter what or how many excuses you have. I think pretty soon, because of "ch importer specialists", we will have to specify EVERY proven morph with a prefix: "proven" Pastel, "proven" Axanthic, meaning it is a Pastel from a proven genetic line. If it does not say proven, then it is probably a CH wannabe.....


People are lame



Dave

 

[TimCoplan]

are you serious ken? I really wanted to do business with you!! Have fun with those misrepresented ball pythons your getting!

 

[TimCoplan]

Hey foose do you spell it briarcrap? His name is too hard to spell im just gonna call him the pseduomorph king!

 

[Ken Foose]

Actually, I really doubt you wanted to do business with me. And as far as the ball pythons go, he can represent them to me any way he wants. I am going to get them, and sell them for $30 each in my store, since they are what they are supposed to be, fresh import baby balls. This is what I'm trading for, and this is what I want. I'm amazed that you can even think you know anything about me or my business. I'm not going to get into a war of words with you, so I won't be posting any replies to you again. All I was stating, and will again, is that Bill has always treated me right, with respect, and I have made a good profit in every trade he and I have ever made. Take care

 

[Classic Dum's]

Deltas the typical way used in venemous animals but that pertains to lethal snakes, gilas and beadeds are in that grey area.

What I want to know is, if you were going to ship a gila and someone asked youto do so via Fedex would you? And if you were buying a gila and someone wanted to ship it to you via Fedex would you allow them to? if yes why?

to a responsible herper grey areas dont mean crap. They know better.

Now as far as the rest I have refrained from throwing my hat in the ring but Will you are wrong. The way you advertise the ball pythons is wrong. Last year you emailed me wanting to trade you so called axantic for something I had. I cant remember what I had you wanted but after our couple emails your name kind of stuck in my mind as someone to be leery about when it comes to morphs. Your first email to me you represented the animal as an axantic you referred to it as an axantic and asked if I wanted to trade what ever it was I had for your axantic. From seeing you on the forums and what not over the years I always thought you were an outstanding guy and was actually excited. when I read your first email, I remember thinking man this is one of the good guys in the business he must have won the lottery or something to offer me an axantic for a couple g's in trade credit. it was only after I responded to you and asked a few questions about the animal you told me that it was an import at which time I denied the trade and was a little shocked and felt like you tried to take advantage by the way you emailed me the first time. The first time you emailed me it was represented as an axantic and from your wording with the email I took it as though it was from a proven line. I just thought it was wrong.

Now a couple months later in the boa forum I posted pics of my hypo dumerils. the next day I get an email from a friend telling me I needed to check the boa classifieds because someone was advertising a hypo dumerils for sale. Well sure enough it was you. You had a very nice looking dumerils but it was no where near a hypo, I dont remember what you were asking for it but I remember thinking that either you were a clown trying to take advantage of people or desperately in need of money so you were trying to give your animals any kind of special label you could to sell them. I even emailed you about that and told you it was nothing but a normal dumerils a very nice one but a normal dumerils. Because of you ad I no longer post pics of my hypo within the forums. The actual colors of my hypo are hard to capture with a digital camera. One thing you obviously over looked that most people would pick up on though is her side, pure bone white, she doesnt have a single speckle on her sides. Which is just one of many things that makes her different. Your was a very light colored animal but it was just a normal animal.

Dumerils are a variable animal. IMO they are more so then most other species within one litter you can have extremely light colored animals to very dark animals. Lets say we are judging overall litter appearance by numbers on a 1-100 scale one being dark and ugly 100 being light and outstanding. Colombians are more consistent within their litters. lets say the Colombian parents are average and its an average litter and the babies range in the 65-80 range. Now lets say you are breeding some average dumerils, well within that litter you are going to have animals from the 35-90 range, the majority will be in the 65-80 range since mom and dad were average but youll have a wider range of looks within the dumerils litter as compared to the Colombians litter. The whole point I am getting at is your going to have some nice dumerils within that litter as well as some less favorable ones. But it doesnt give you the right to label the nice ones as something they are not. I was rather pissed when I read that, I have yrs of work into this project and heres someone with a normal animal and not only are the trying to sell it as something it is not but you were trying to use a label that thet animal didn’t deserve and one I have put years of work into. I am sure that if BHB or Kev from Nerd or any of the other big ball python people has seen your advertisements there not to happy with you. Here they get an animal, put alot of hard work into the project raising advertising etc, prove it to be genetic and you come along and try to sell your $5 animals with their labels that they have put years, money and countless hours of hard work into, its wrong.

They just jumped all over Bill Cagle for doing the same thing with the jungle boa name and right fully so. Bill was producing some animals that had a little goofiness to their patterns and tried to label them as jungles. They didn’t come from a proven jungle line just came from some boas he had that came from who knows where. Well first he labels them as jungles well everyone went nuts, because they were not and he had no right to label them as such so then he labeled them as "American jungles" well everyone was still pissed because once again they were not jungles. Well Bill claimed that he had the right to name them American jungles because the name distinguished them from the proven line. We everyone else said no you dont because the name is misleading and I agree with everyone else. I dont know what the heck he was thinking because I produce babies every year that look just like the ones he was posting pics of from one of my females. Some of them that have a little more of that goofiness to their pattern I may ask $125 out of as compared to $85 for the rest of them but I have never nor will I ever attach someone elses name to them that they have put yrs of blood sweat and tears into proving out. Thats exactly what you are doing with these "pastels" and "axantics" and "hypo dumerils" you are trying to sell.

If you have animals you think are better looking or totally different then others out there I see no problem with putting what ever price tag on them you want. I do that myself and so does everyone else, I currently have a really weird pattern boa for sale, I want $2500 for it, I think its worth every penny of that. Its a farmed baby from last year, shes just got an awesome pattern to her and its very different from anything I have ever seen in 15 + yrs and very consistent more so the any aberrant animal I have ever seen. Every saddle she has that "bat wing" look to it that the suris do but her saddles are extremely thick. Shes only 24 inches or so and most of her saddles are over an inch long, most boas her size have saddles less then 1/2 inch thick in the center. I truly believe it will turn out to be genetic, her pattern is extremely consistent. and I state that in my ads but I also state the facts as they are within the ad that shes a farmed baby and I will not guarantee her to be a genetic morph because she is not from a proven line. And I have never labeled her as a jungle or possible jungle or any crap like that because she is not. I wont even goes as far as saying "she apears to be a (insert proven morph name here)" because what ever name you thought to insert there is a name that someone else has put yrs of hard work and money into proving out, Advertising etc etc and for me to give my animal that name that has yrs of work behind it is simple wrong, dishonest, deceiving very rude to the people have the right to call there animals those names and total bullsh!t.


What you are doing is simple wrong. I dont think your a thief or one of the scum of our hobby but what you are doing is wrong Will and because of it I have lost respect for you. IMO you were once one of the good guys an outstanding person with this community, now IMO your just a car salesman, you wont steal from someone but youll use that play on words to deceive and get that money.

I dunno I am glad that the one guy posting here about the balls hes getting from you is happy with them I just ope you learn a lesson from this and knock the sh!T off.

 

[BriarpatchHerps]

You're a tad off Jason, that light dumerils I had listed was
"hypo? no clue" and didn't even have a price listed, it was a "what is it to you" ad.

If you think real hard I emailed you the animals photos to compare to your own and get your opinion of what the animal was as it looked oddball. We even had a discussion about it with me asking you characteristics of yous.

As for the axanthic, everyone has the same story.....including you.
The animal was discussed, photos were sent and it's complete history and background were explained.

Has your hypo dum been proven genetic? Because....if not....according to the guidlines outlined on this woderfully long and drawn out post Hypomelanistic Dumerils is a non existant animal.

Even if your animal hasn't been proven isn't it pretty stupid to NOT call that specific animal hypo when it quacks like a duck and looks like a duck?

I've said it ten times and I'll say it again, my animals have always been described and their origin has always been posted and explained along with an accurate up to date photo.

If this isn't good enough for you, well.........I guess you wont be buying from me will you?


What blinds me with brilliance about this whole thread is the amount of time, effort and business opportunities thrown away over reasonably priced animals showing traits of genetic potential being named and explained as Captive Hatched.

Brilliant...........simply brilliant.

 

[NEWReptiles]

HMMMMM, pastel ball ads gonna be put back up in the near future? Been over a week now.......

I can't help but think YOU HAVE NO PASTELS and that your helper story is a load of BS.

 

[Classic Dum's]

You're a tad off Jason, that light dumerils I had listed was
"hypo? no clue" and didn't even have a price listed, it was a "what is it to you" ad.

If you think real hard I emailed you the animals photos to compare to your own and get your opinion of what the animal was as it looked oddball. We even had a discussion about it with me asking you characteristics of yous.

Your wording of the ad was miss leading. Your the one who is a tad off, you emailed me pics AFTER a friend of mine made me aware of the ad and I emailed you first NOT prior to listing the ad. Your animal did not look nor quack like a duck. Through your car salesmen like wording you tried to attach a name that didnt belong.

The animal was discussed, photos were sent and it's complete history and background were explained.

as I stated your first email your represnted it as an axantic, no where in there was a complete history nor was there pics attached that all came with the second email after you had represnted it as an axantic. Your wrong. Your first email lead me to believe you had an actual axantic. You do it that way to get the people excited about it which makes it easier to pass it off on them.

Has your hypo dum been proven genetic? Because....if not....according to the guidlines outlined on this woderfully long and drawn out post Hypomelanistic Dumerils is a non existant animal.

Im pretty sure she is gravid now. For some reason I have had a diffucult time breeding her. Now before you jump up and down about how its not a proven trait let me explain something to you. When she was produced I wound up obtaining her and her father. A friend of mine got her mom and all her siblings. He bred a pair of those siblings, guess what he produced a hypo. So yes what she resembles is a proven trait through his breedings of the siblings that turned out to be hets. So yes, because of that I have every right in the world to represent her as a hypo or any other name I so chose that hasnt been taken and as a gentic trait.

What blinds me with brilliance about this whole thread is the amount of time, effort and business opportunities thrown away over reasonably priced animals showing traits of genetic potential being named and explained as Captive Hatched.

dude you just dont seem to get it thats not the case at all. Every animal you have had listed that we are disscussing is nothing but normal ball pythons. I had tons of them that loooked exactly like yours last year. I didnt get any this year as I have other priorities. But I had high yellows just like the "pastels" you were advertising. reduced patterns like the other one you were pawning off as something important and ones with goofy coloring no differant then your axantic. The high yellows you had adverrtised are abosulty nothing special. they will loose that color with age. There nothing wrong with asking a higher price for the nicer ones, the high yellows, the reduced patterns etc abosulty nothing wrong with it. Its the label you give them thats bullsh!t. Its obovious from your little deflections and excuses you are questioning whether or not what you are doing is right, well its not.


Oh and I have to ask, do you have pastel ball pythons from a proven pastel linenot some high yellow imports but actual pastels???? please make sure to answer that when you respond.

 

[Jerry Dorgan]

Briarpatch

I quote Briar:

"I've said it ten times and I'll say it again, my animals have always been described and their origin has always been posted and explained along with an accurate up to date photo."

REALLY...is this not the email you sent me first to get me interested in a trade????

mailto:[email protected]

This is the message:

Interested in trades of CH ball python varients and morphs?

There are some ads posted that I ran today with fresh photos, after checking
out the animal quality let me know what it is exactly you're after.

Greens, green granites, orange, yellow, pastels, labyrinths, reduced
patterns ect ect ect

Wm




Ken,
can you look at this and honestly say Wm is not mixing his words to make a fast and very profitable trade. I'm glad you are happy with Wm...you should be, sounds like you are getting what they really are,,,fresh import baby ball pythons...........but that is not how he represents them to other people.

Like I said before Briar, you mix your words as good as any politician out there.

 

[TimCoplan]

id betcha that briarcrap is doing the same thing hes doing with ball pythons as he is with the gtps. I still havnt seen any proof on their supposed "lineage" They looked like wc crap with stuck shed still from being imported.

Ken I really am hurt because you dont want to do business with me! I really do hope you have a good time with the 5 dollar ball pythons, they are a blast! The reason you are getting ball pythons from him, is because he cant sell them off for 2k morphs, so your really just getting the left-overs.