Carrot Tails

[groovygeckos]

i understand 100 %

what i said originally was that everyone has their own opinion on CT (selectively bred CT ) also .....thank you for putting forth all of the effort ! it just boggles the mind ..... that almost all of what ron , and matt n susans red-stripe line produce , are 50% and up carrottail geckos , ..unlike the fake CT that are actually tangerines or crossed with %10 (i do know what that means) yet they are not carrot-tails ! sure dont think that, if I crossed hines to tangerines , and got %50 CT`s , i would be calling them tangerines because of some spotting i guess i had not known quite a few of these things , this CT to be one with the "genetic-hypo" was really news to me , i had heard alot about the dom. or co-dom hypo ! really did not know CT is somehow genetic also i dont think the red-stripes or this giant morph have any bit of hypo in them , but they all have over %50 to %75 very bright ORANGE tails ! seriously ? that much bright orange is not enough to call them carrottails ? i know ron calls them " carrothead "carrottail" tangerines " !

 

[KelliH]

Dan. I give up. You are obviously not getting what I am saying, and that's fine.

that much bright orange is not enough to call them carrottails ? i know ron calls them " carrothead "carrottail" tangerines " !

Yes, Ron calls some of his albinos carrot tail, but I GUARANTEE you he did NOT call them that before the Hine carrot tails were on the market. His albinos are selectively bred. They have no Hine carrot tail in them. Just like HQR says his do not either.

You can call your geckos whatever you want. All I am trying to explain is that there is a difference. One should not sell selectively bred HYPO TANGERINES as SUPER HYPO CARROT TAILS because there is a big difference: one is a co dominant gene and one is a selectively bred gene. Hopefully new hobbiests will do their research before buying.

In closing, there is another difference between a leopard gecko that has orange "carrotting" on the tail, and one that is a true "hypo carrot tail". The difference is in the bloodline. Maybe someday you will understand this but I am having serious doubts

 

[chondrokeeper]

just something a little interesting....

<center><img src="http://webpages.charter.net/geckos/tangerine/pics-0001-1.jpg">

This is the hypo in the above photo now...

<img src="http://home.comcast.net/~chondrokeeper/For-Sale-2004/RWAlbXCT-female3.jpg"></center>

The first photo is what I've gotten since 2002 when I cross my Rainwater male to a Hine line CT female I have from Albey. EACH and EVERY single clutch has hatched 50/50 like that, 1 hypo, 1 normal. The normal is reduced some in patterning. BTW, the first photo was taken while the geckos were found in their incubation box.

 

[Spydergotboost]

i have a queation

is TUG,s line from hine's line originally?

 

[Xelda]

One should not sell selectively bred HYPO TANGERINES as SUPER HYPO CARROT TAILS because there is a big difference: one is a co dominant gene and one is a selectively bred gene.

Kelli, do you have any comparison pics of a non-Hine hypo tang and a Hine super hypo carrot tail? This has all been pretty educational for me.

 

[KelliH]

is TUG,s line from hine's line originally?

Yes, their carrot tails originated from Ray Hine.

Kelli, do you have any comparison pics of a non-Hine hypo tang and a Hine super hypo carrot tail? This has all been pretty educational for me.

No problem at all

Here are some selectively bred hypo tangerines that have no Ray Hine blood in them at all.

Here is a pure Ray Hine line animal I used to have-

Here is what you can get by mixing these-

One pretty easy way to tell the difference is the lack of spotting on the head. That is where the "baldy" term came from. Ray Hine animals were the first we saw this trait in.

I am glad this is all helping at least one person ;-)

 

[chondrokeeper]

Kelli said:

I am glad this is all helping at least one person ;-)

<img src="http://webpages.charter.net/geckos/miscellaneous/hardlaugh.gif">

 

[KelliH]

i hope (just the way u seem to want it ) %#$@ -it they should just rename this one kelli hammocks inflated-ego forum !

Wow Dan, why don't you tell us how you really feel? LOL. If you would ever take the time to get to know me you would know that I am about the furthest away from having an inflated ego as you can get. I was only trying to help you and others understand the genetics behind some of these bloodlines, and try and help you understand why they are called what they are. I know this stuff not because I am a know it all or have an inflated ego. It's because I have years of experience with leopard geckos and because I have researched all this.

It saddens me that you think I am an egomaniac, simply because I am knowlegable about what I do and trying to pass that knowlege on to people on this forum.

 

[Blazin]

Classic Ray Hine carrot! Well sort of!

This guy came from a Ray Hine line animal. His mother is from a pair of Leopards directly from Ray Hine. The father of this gecko is from a male from Albey and a female that was the result of a Golden Gecko Tangerine x Ray Hine line Carrot tail. So this gecko has both two grandparents from Ray Hine and two from Tangerine lines. To me he looks like a classic Ray Hine line yellowish carrot tail but he does have tinges of orange throughout his body. I actually like this look and want to continue producing what I call the "classic Ray Hine carrot tail" But in all actuality I need a pure Ray Hine line male to use with my female which I don't have.

 

[KelliH]

That one does have that classic Ray Hine look. He's an awesome gecko Chad. Are you going to be holding him back?

 

[Blazin]

Think so.

The female that produced this male is like I said a pure Ray Hine line animal. No tang or anything else mixed in with her. She only produced one egg this season, it being her first. He looks a bit more clean than she does so I was thinking of holding him back to add some fresh blood to some crosses I am doing. But I don't know. I put some pairs and groups on paper the other day and I was having a hard time deciding who to breed to who. Here is an obvious Cross I got this year. I am thinking of breeding him into my tangerine line. Like yours my Tangs from Nitro have no Ray Hine in them. If I cross Fusion with this guy that will change everything. Then the animals I produce will in fact have a portion of Ray Hine blood in them. This guy is from a Hisss male and a USAgecko line female. Don't know where Rick obtained most of his animals so the lineage of the dam of this gecko is still a little bit in question.

 

[KelliH]

Chad that's a great looking guy as well. He's got fantastic color, should produce some screamers for you. Honestly I am not sure where Rick's line originated from either. I'll have to ask him that next time we talk. I'll let you know if I find out.

 

[groovygeckos]

look im sorry

just it is damn frustrating when someone doesnt get it ! and everytime i say something i get the same reaction , everyone thinks i mean something different , or when i say ok i understand but still have something to say , i get this "no im right yur wrong" , people arguing , (all for no reason), or im being teased in this public forum for being a slow-learner lol (because someone doesnt understand when i say "i got it allready " ) ! i absorb everything very quickly , am very smart ...its just that when bits of the story are missing im left to put 2 and 2 together (like anyone) i was never trying to argue against your point , i am not here to argue ...i would like to learn more ... but how can i if everyone wants to argue with me , or not even respond to me anymore with all of the daily- misundertandings

 

[robin d.]

ok let me break it on down a bittle easier not using geckos but another very well know group of animals


Boa Constrictor
-Boa Constrictor Imperetor
- hog island boas
- sonoran desert boos
- Tarahumara Mt boas
- cay caulker boas
- central american voas
- rotan local boas
- corn island boas

now while these are all condiered boa constrictor imperetor they have somepletely different looks, sizes ect. the reason they do is because of their broad geographic range. these are localities but each one has a very ditinct loo9k for one anyother. hogs islands and corn islands and the rotans have a naturaal hypomelanistic look to them while tarhumaras,central americans have a much darker look to them almost hypermelanistic. this is just ONE subspecies which contains many mini populations which have distinctive looks, varying from area to area.

now i could go on to the next sub species which would be boa constrictor constrictor but that gets a bit more in detail and also boa constrictor amarali

NOW while there are three (some say four) main subspecies of
Eublepharis Machlarius, which in each of the subspecies it is not a hard stretch to think their are isolated mini populations, which look different because of their geographical location, weather ect. Not to mention the four species of Eublepharius... that could add to the mix as well.

WC could be gotten up til a couple of years ago.

now Dan pop that inflated know it all ego, listen to what is being said and take into consideration what kelli and the others have been trying to tell you and the info i have provided to UNDERSTAND what the deal is..... ten plus years of keep/breed/researchings Vs. maybe one year of keeping... open your ears just a tad and listen and you might just learn something

 

[geckokreeper]

What line would you say this is? I was told a Hine Urban cross. Did Urbans stock originate from Hines as well?

 

[KelliH]

What line would you say this is? I was told a Hine Urban cross. Did Urbans stock originate from Hines as well?

That's a beautiful gecko Aaron! Definitely a Hine line animal. And yes, as far as I know some of Urban's stock originated from Ray Hine. They also had other non Hine line hypo tangerines as well. They basically did the same thing myself, Albey and a handful of others did, they crossed their Hine line carrot tails into tangs and hypo tangs.

 

[Xelda]

Kelli - Okay, I see the difference now. Thanks for putting those up! Those are Nieves tangs, right?

 

[Manhattan Herps]

that was me eho posted that Jeanne, i meant no disrespect, i was just clarifying,,

as for that crack about kelli having an inflated ego i say ROFL,

Dan, you where ignorant to the fact that she was just trying to help you and explain her opinion to you, just because you have a need to be right doesnt mean you can go off on other people..

i mean, c'mon..she's one of the nicest people on this forum and a very respected breeder..some people..

anyway, heres my old male that was produced from an albey to hine crossing, the picture sucks but its the best i could find of his whole body,

 

[USAGECKOS]

Ok, my next question....

Why do some "Baldy" geckos end up having spots on their head after a few years?

Like this one I got from Tundra Geckos, he is about 2 years old, never had spots on his head up until about 6 months ago, now he has a couple of spots.

And, is he still considered a "Baldy"?

Thanks!

 

[KelliH]

Dan,

I understand your frustration but I think you misunderstood my intentions. I can't speak for anyone else, but I was not ganging up on you. I was just trying to explain the facts and honestly it appeared as if you were the one not comprehending. It's perfectly fine for you to have an opinion about something and to disagree with me or anyone. Just like it's perfectly fine for me to have an opinion. If I see an opportunity to set some facts straight here, I am going to do that.

this is what i mean by inflated ego , someone that is arguing , just to argue , because they are so sure someone else is trying to challenge what they know

I was not arguing just to argue. I was trying to set the record straight, for you and others that may be reading.

If you got pissed off at that that's fine too, you have the right but saying that you think the forum should be renamed the "Kelli Hammock inflated ego forum" (it's spelled Hammack BTW ) is going a bit too far IMO. I don't think someone that has an inflated ego would spend half her days on the phone with people trying to teach them all she knows about leopard geckos. You can call me anytime Dan, if you ever have questions. Even though you have insulted me publically on this forum I would still help you out if I thought I could. That's the kind of person I am, and no matter what your opinion of me is, it's not going to change the way I am, just like it's not going to change the facts of this entire discussion. Take care.