Ed Clark,don't buy frogs from him!

[K412]

Kelly,
I have not had any dealings with Ed myself at this time, but he is not on my "No Deal" list either. It appears to me that he has handled this transaction as good, or better then what should have been expected of a "good guy." Many others here who do not like Ed, and have him on their "No Sale/Purchase List" have said the same thing.
The first frog was not signed for, and was left on your doorstep. That usually voids the live arrival guarantee on any animal. Ed still sent you a free Whites Tree Frog as a replacement animal for free, and paid the shipping fee's. So basically he went above and beyond his TOS, and honored his live arrival guarantee even though the animal was left on your doorstep.
I am sorry for the direction of my previous post's. I was thinking the pics of the live and dead frog looked like different animals. I also thought that the fact that you said that you changed the soaking wet paper towels, but they were still wet in the pic of the dead frog looked like a lie. When others were posting the same things that had caught my attention, I thought maybe you were pulling a fast one, or two on Ed. Maybe I was wrong?
It appears that you are upset about taking a financial loss, and trying to clear your conscious by blaming Ed for the death of these two frogs. At this point I think it is time to take a break from this thread and at least wait until you get the vet reports. Ed really does not owe you anything more here, and that includes pictures of his breeding facility.
You should have asked to see pics of it before your transaction. Then if he refused, and it was that important to you you could have passed on the deal. Now it just appears that you have an axe to grind with Ed even though he has handled this transaction well. It probably doesn't matter to you, but I already would probably not deal with you.
I am not telling you not to post anymore. You can do what ever you want just like everybody else. I am just saying you may want to wait until you get the report back or some Zoo comes on here saying Ed wiped out their collection. (Sorry Ed, I am sure that won't happen, I was just saying...)

Sir, do you keep frogs? If so have your frogs been treated?
I am asking that out of curiosity. I do not sell animals so there is no need for anyone to "deal" with me.
Ed owes me answers to my questions. He has chosen who to respond to but will not anser the many questions that I have asked of him in reference to this matter.
If I had done research on Ed instead of the frog I would have seen he has a really high bad karma rating and known about his level of professional standards and never done business with him in the first place. My "axe" is that he has refused to respond to me and sold me a sick frog.
The financial loss isn't that big of a deal for me. What is, is that he has misrepresented himself and has come here and on another forum and claims that I am to blame for the death of this frog.
I never signed anything for either frog, the driver just handed me the box and hopped back into the truck both times. This is from Ed in reference to that;
From: ed clark
To: k412
Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 7:46 pm
Subject: Re: Are we good to go?
will be there before 10:30 am, they never knock so be sitting near your front door.

I sent it to the address I sent to last time.

Why, if he actually thought that I killed the first one would he have replaced the first frog?
Because I started pm'ing him early in the morning and was anxious for the arrival. Why would I wait 2 months for the weather to be right?

 

[K412]

I know, its really nit picking at this point.

She paid for the shipping on the frog she cooked and I paid for the shipping on the replacement frog.

I acknowledge your "cooked" term Ed and I will not stoop to your level on this at all.
Are you going to continue to dodge my questions?

 

[MiIguanaLvr]

Kelly,

I have read this whole thread and watched things go back and forth in it. I can tell you that it looks to me like you truly care for your animals are are geniunely sorry about the frogs death. I can't say that I get the same feeling from the other party involved.

I think that no matter what the final pathology report states though, you won't be getting any money from Ed. I think that the legality of it is that he followed his TOS. Morally you may feel he owes you but legally I think you don't stand a chance.

I think that you can talk to him until you are blue in the face and it won't make a bit of difference in the final outcome. Some people are still going to think Ed is a creep and some people are going to think you are trying to get something for free.

I think you are upsetting youself by keeping this thread going and its all for nothing. Maybe its time you just admit that you are out your money, and take from it a lesson that from now on you will research all sellers on the BOI before dealing with them. That way you do not have to be on the defence again and again over something that you cannot possibly win anyway.
JMHO

Good luck to you

 

[LakesideBoas]

Not to be a stinker, but:

"Left at front door. Package delivered to recipient address - release authorized".


I get this on every package I receive even if I have to pry it from the driver's hot little hand after I sign for it. (my driver knows what's usually in any package I get and he likes to be there when I open them )

I didn't even sign a waiver, so how that got in the system is a complete mystery and try getting off the system--I've tried many many times. They seem to like it there as it never leaves!

Kelly, just chalk this up to a bad investment, learning experience or what-have-you as I do not see you getting any type of resolution at this point.

Let's face it. Frogs are delicate creatures and they do go T/U for no reason that is readily apparent. The frog looked fine to me in the original pictures, then again, I'm not a frog person per/se. I keep a couple ornates just because I think they are "cool" (and I love to watch them eat!). I lost two of them during QT that looked perfectly healthy even after they were dead! Went to feed them and poof, they were gone, and I feed or clean every other day. Didn't even realise one was dead until I went to move the little monster. It was just sitting there, like always.

Ed, if you would have just said, "Gee, Kelly, I'm sorry that happened, although I can't refund as live arrival is my only guarantee. Perhaps you can get another one in the future.", she may have been perfectly happy.

Communication seems to be one of your downfalls, Ed (not picking on you just an observation), maybe that's something to look into.

 

[shrap]

Our Fedex man always puts that message in the system, even when I have took the package out of his hands. It's rather frustrating but doesn't necessarily mean it was left on the porch.

That is why as a customer you INSIST that you sign for the package AND explain to the driver that the WARRANTY on the package is voided if it says "left on porch".

 

[jayefbe]

Ed basically did say that in the initial conversations after the frog died. Then Kelly started accusing him of knowingly sending her a sick frog, something that is pure speculation on her part.

I know what the necropsy has said, but the reliability of it is very questionable. The facts are, the frog appeared to be in perfect health when it arrived. And Kelly seemed to be unclear of how to properly care for the animal (feeding worms with tongs, unclear on how many crickets, the ever present wet paper towels, worrying about a fall, etc). Frogs do die for what seems to be no apparent reason. I've personally had it happen to me, it's frustrating and disheartening, but it does happen. Sometimes there's nothing you can do about it, and sometimes you can never be quite sure what happened. Trying to blame Ed for this situation is pretty unreasonable.

 

[LakesideBoas]

Ed basically did say that in the initial conversations after the frog died. Then Kelly started accusing him of knowingly sending her a sick frog, something that is pure speculation on her part.

I know what the necropsy has said, but the reliability of it is very questionable. The facts are, the frog appeared to be in perfect health when it arrived. And Kelly seemed to be unclear of how to properly care for the animal (feeding worms with tongs, unclear on how many crickets, the ever present wet paper towels, worrying about a fall, etc). Frogs do die for what seems to be no apparent reason. I've personally had it happen to me, it's frustrating and disheartening, but it does happen. Sometimes there's nothing you can do about it, and sometimes you can never be quite sure what happened. Trying to blame Ed for this situation is pretty unreasonable.

Without going back and specifically looking I will concede he may have said that. I do know that most people complaining about Ed say it is due to lack of communication, so I mentioned it.

Okay, last time I stuck my neck out like this I got it bit, but I have to mention that there is no better place for bacteria to flourish than a warm, humid dead body overnight (I am thinking this animal died overnight?). Put that same bacterium in a petri dish in that environment overnight and see what you wind up with in the morning...

If the animal does not exhibit signs of CF, then I don't know what else to tell you, Kelly, except to say I will not vilify you. The frog could have met it's demise due to shipping stress and there's nothing you or Ed could have done about it.

 

[hhmoore]

Anybody else remember that comment by one of the young frog huggers last year? roflmao

 

[K412]

Ed basically did say that in the initial conversations after the frog died. Then Kelly started accusing him of knowingly sending her a sick frog, something that is pure speculation on her part.

I know what the necropsy has said, but the reliability of it is very questionable. The facts are, the frog appeared to be in perfect health when it arrived. And Kelly seemed to be unclear of how to properly care for the animal (feeding worms with tongs, unclear on how many crickets, the ever present wet paper towels, worrying about a fall, etc). Frogs do die for what seems to be no apparent reason. I've personally had it happen to me, it's frustrating and disheartening, but it does happen. Sometimes there's nothing you can do about it, and sometimes you can never be quite sure what happened. Trying to blame Ed for this situation is pretty unreasonable.

I never said that he knew the frog was sick, just that it was.
The "facts" of the frogs health were explained on fatfrogs.
I posted the pictures of the report. I explained the time frame of it as well.
I know how to care for them or I wouldn't have gotten one.
I have explained the crickets and "falling" ad nauseum already.
The "ever present" paper towels is because the pictures were all taken within the same time period.
I never said I blamed him I said that his business practices are less than savory and his level of courtesy in this matter proves it.
I did not get the animal that I was told I would recieve on 8/13.
Blaming me is very unreasonable and unprofessional.

 

[Bill Stonegate]

Thank goodness sanity prevails in this lengthy thread. I don't know Ed personally, but I have seen him get a bad rap around here, for being guilty of nothing more than bad communication skills.

That said, he has left a lot of questions unanswered.

I believe there is a certain group of people who would just as soon hang his nuts out to dry as look at him, but something about this whole thread smells like tuna.

You bought a frog from Ed. It died. Now he is the devil incarnate. Grow up.

 

[jayefbe]

I'm not trying to blame you. I doubt your husbandry practices, even if not ideal, contributed to the death of the frog. I just don't think you should keep blaming Ed. If it comes back as positive for chytrid that may be a different story, but at this point everything is speculation.

 

[K412]

With all due respect Ms or Mrs. Burroughs I do not need anyone to vilify me.
No she did not die overnight, I have explained the timeline already. I found her remains within 30-45 minutes of her passing and put her in the refrigerator.
The signs and symptoms of Chytrid are varied and are induced by stress.
The animal remains asymptomatic until it's triggered and by the time it is obvious it is often too late.

 

[K412]

Thank goodness sanity prevails in this lengthy thread. I don't know Ed personally, but I have seen him get a bad rap around here, for being guilty of nothing more than bad communication skills.

That said, he has left a lot of questions unanswered.

I believe there is a certain group of people who would just as soon hang his nuts out to dry as look at him, but something about this whole thread smells like tuna.

You bought a frog from Ed. It died. Now he is the devil incarnate. Grow up.

Sir, I have remained adult about this situation although it has been difficult at times and care enough about animals to speak for them.

 

[crazyfroglady]

Why would you say that?

The whites was sent to her no charge and I paid for the fedex priority shipping.

I'm talking about refunds Ed not replacements.

Just out of curiosity did you ever replace, refund, or even admit that you sent the wrong crested gecko to that one girl? Or did you basically tell her to F*** off by ignoring her? How come you haven't mentioned again since this all came about that all of your frogs are treated for Chytrid like you did on fatfrogs? Could it be because you also think this frog died of Chytrid fungus?

 

[Ed Clark]

This will be known as a Kelly Brown classic.

She confesses to killing the frog, then changes her story to suit the circumstances! whata liar [OUOTE]


Fat Frogs Forums Forum Index
Inbox :: Message
From: k412
To: ed clark
Posted: 2 Aug 14, 2008 10:17 pm
Subject: I'm sorry Ed. I'm a shitty keeper.


I went to check on him after I put the crickets in and he was behind the rock thing dead in the corner. I had totally left him alone but I guess I stressed the shit out of him the first day. There was a milky fluid between his body and what looked like a shed. The yellow tinges weren't visible I only saw them in the pictures.
I'm not going to keep frogs anymore I PROMISE. I can't tell you how sorry I am that I killed your pretty frog. I am sorry that I wasted his life and your time. Rest assured it won't happen again, I probably won't even keep the ones I have. I'm not meant to keep them I guess.
I'm not gonna be on this forum anymore either. I'm too embarrassed and there are a few members here who would think it was funny. Please don't be angry with me but if you are I totally understand.

_________________[/QUOTE]

 

[Ed Clark]

Just out of curiosity did you ever replace, refund, or even admit that you sent the wrong crested gecko to that one girl? Or did you basically tell her to F*** off by ignoring her?

I offered her a free red morph baby and told her I would pay the shipping.

She said she did not want anything from me.

She also posted that the female I sent her laid a set of healthy fertile eggs.

 

[Bill Stonegate]

Sir, I have remained adult about this situation although it has been difficult at times and care enough about animals to speak for them.

No, actually, you have not. You have made a bunch of wild claims, but failed to deliver any verifiable proof.

You can argue it is Ed's responsibility to come here and defend himself, but you are "prosecuting the case", so either present your evidence, or shut up. You don't seem to be able to do either.

YOU made the accusation. YOU prove it. It's gonna take something more than "my frog looked lethargic, and it's eyes were bloodshot".

Just because you talk (write) a lot does not necessarily mean you have anything to say .

FWIT, I have no allegiance to either party. Ed sent you a replacement animal, which he was not required to do, under the TOS. And you're still bitching? Get a life.

 

[crazyfroglady]

This will be known as a Kelly Brown classic.

She confesses to killing the frog, then changes her story to suit the circumstances! whata liar [OUOTE]


Fat Frogs Forums Forum Index
Inbox :: Message
From: k412
To: ed clark
Posted: 2 Aug 14, 2008 10:17 pm
Subject: I'm sorry Ed. I'm a shitty keeper.


I went to check on him after I put the crickets in and he was behind the rock thing dead in the corner. I had totally left him alone but I guess I stressed the shit out of him the first day. There was a milky fluid between his body and what looked like a shed. The yellow tinges weren't visible I only saw them in the pictures.
I'm not going to keep frogs anymore I PROMISE. I can't tell you how sorry I am that I killed your pretty frog. I am sorry that I wasted his life and your time. Rest assured it won't happen again, I probably won't even keep the ones I have. I'm not meant to keep them I guess.
I'm not gonna be on this forum anymore either. I'm too embarrassed and there are a few members here who would think it was funny. Please don't be angry with me but if you are I totally understand.

_________________

[/QUOTE]

Notice the part where she said she left it alone? I did everytime you posted it. This is how people sometimes feel when something dies in their care. That is clearly just the words of a woman who was upset and has a deep love for animals.

 

[Mckenzie_river_reptiles]

Oiy! let's keep it under control.

This has gone way too far, way too long!

IMHO Ed is tired of sending this girl frogs and having them die....Be it her fault or the time of year they are being sent.(not a frogman)
Just let it go.

The plain fact that you told him you did not want anything else is enough. Yes, you were all emotionally "whacked", but that's no excuse, especially in the business world.

By telling Mr. Clark you did not want anything else ended it. Right there, so why are we still talking.

Let's drop the drama and move on.

 

[Mckenzie_river_reptiles]

The fact that she loves animals changes nothing...

Maybe if you look at the fact that it is just an animal, that will help with your emotional attachment to the frog(s).