HerpLuver
The Boogeyman!
Right now Chris is working and he will Reply to everything when he gets home from work.... Around 8:30 pm tonight.
-
Responding to email notices you receive.
**************************************************
In short, DON'T! Email notices are to ONLY alert you of a reply to your private message or your ad on this site. Replying to the email just wastes your time as it goes NOWHERE, and probably pisses off the person you thought you replied to when they think you just ignored them. So instead of complaining to me about your messages not being replied to from this site via email, please READ that email notice that plainly states what you need to do in order to reply to who you are trying to converse with.
Fraud Warning: Chris Altizer/christal Ganley
- Thread starter kenfosterpb
- Start date
animaladventure2000
New member
Ken I think you need to calm down little. Have you given him a chance to fix this that will be what the police will do and if it was a honest mistake then everything will be fine and if it wasn't then you already have him on here admitting he has your snake so what is a day or two give him a chance
Brian Layell
Brian Layell
Jungle Gems
Useful Idiot
Ken,
I can understand your frustration, but you are being a little too rash here. Give Chris a couple of days to make good on this. It's up on the BOI for everyone to see and if he does not come through then you can safely hack away at his reputation. For the time being, exhibit a little patience. I had a similar experience to Chris's few years ago... and PayPal not only attempted to pull the money out twice, but THREE times, which really put me in the hole and I incurred ridiculous overdraft fees for something I didn't even do. It took several days before the multiple charges were returned to my account (less the overdraft fees) and I was able to continue with the purchase. PayPal is a great tool but can also be a pain in the backside if given the wrong circumstances. I'm sure this will all sort out in your favor once this is all said and done, and you will get either your money or your snake. I don't believe Chris is devious enough to intentionally pull a stunt like this and I'm sure he'll be the one worse for the wear in the end. Bank/PayPal problems can really bite hard.
Jennifer Webb
Jungle Gems Exotics
www.JungleGemsExotics.com
I can understand your frustration, but you are being a little too rash here. Give Chris a couple of days to make good on this. It's up on the BOI for everyone to see and if he does not come through then you can safely hack away at his reputation. For the time being, exhibit a little patience. I had a similar experience to Chris's few years ago... and PayPal not only attempted to pull the money out twice, but THREE times, which really put me in the hole and I incurred ridiculous overdraft fees for something I didn't even do. It took several days before the multiple charges were returned to my account (less the overdraft fees) and I was able to continue with the purchase. PayPal is a great tool but can also be a pain in the backside if given the wrong circumstances. I'm sure this will all sort out in your favor once this is all said and done, and you will get either your money or your snake. I don't believe Chris is devious enough to intentionally pull a stunt like this and I'm sure he'll be the one worse for the wear in the end. Bank/PayPal problems can really bite hard.
Jennifer Webb
Jungle Gems Exotics
www.JungleGemsExotics.com
Reptile Basics
New member
I am having the same problem with Chris right now...
He/they bought some items from me on Jun 27 and on july 18 Paypal grabs hold of the money in my paypal account and tells me it is "on hold" pending investigation. Paypal conveniently waited until I had a balance from other payments received to inform me of this and grab the funds. Why do I take my $$ out of paypal as quick as I can? It was a "coincidence". uh huh.
Time frame was a bit too long for me to buy his story at face value but we will see. If it was ISF in the account then it would have kicked back much quicker in my opinion/experience.
Anyhow, emailed Chris and asked what he planned to do about this. Promptly replies with apology and asks for patience. Gained some points on the quick reply. Looks better than none. for sure. Will say I didnt hear a word till I went looking for an answer. Maybe I wouldnt notice the missing money? Must say I am skeptical but I can track them down just as easy in a week or a month or more, at a show or home as now so I will go with the patient route for now. Innocent until proven guilty and such. If he squares up, I will sing his praises here. I absolutely can see Kens point of view though, and share much of it. Often the only way to recover in a situation like this, which really looks pretty fishy from his end, is to hit hard and fast. Time and patience really isnt your friend, not to mention it hurts pretty good when you are out the product and the $$ on top of it. Seems to me Kim Felts pulled that caper on me awhile back but everyone who said they got ripped off by her caught a bunch of flack here early on. Be patient they said, let her fall off of the earth, she will make good. Heard from her lately? I haven't. I even got a prompt email response and heap of lies from her when I got the chargeback from her paypal account. Lots of crying and problems. Why would I be skeptical?
Ken hit it on the head in the beginning of the thread, Paypal basically sucks. It is very convenient especially for the smaller seller or the buyer but they dont even attempt to protect anyone but Paypal. Their terms of service basically tell you that you are screwed (buyer or seller) and then they pull that ambush crap on my account. Going to ditch them, tired of it. In 10+ years with a merchant account I have had less trouble than I have out of Paypal in 12 months. Gonna have to bite the bullet and set up online CC/Debit processing on the site in addition to my existing merchant account and be done with it. It actually works out cheaper to do in the long run anyhow. Even without factoring in PayPals B.S. If you factor that in it is no contest (for both sides) and better deal. Just my opinion of course.
Rich Goldzung
Reptile Basics Inc
www.reptilebasics.com
He/they bought some items from me on Jun 27 and on july 18 Paypal grabs hold of the money in my paypal account and tells me it is "on hold" pending investigation. Paypal conveniently waited until I had a balance from other payments received to inform me of this and grab the funds. Why do I take my $$ out of paypal as quick as I can? It was a "coincidence". uh huh.
Time frame was a bit too long for me to buy his story at face value but we will see. If it was ISF in the account then it would have kicked back much quicker in my opinion/experience.
Anyhow, emailed Chris and asked what he planned to do about this. Promptly replies with apology and asks for patience. Gained some points on the quick reply. Looks better than none. for sure. Will say I didnt hear a word till I went looking for an answer. Maybe I wouldnt notice the missing money? Must say I am skeptical but I can track them down just as easy in a week or a month or more, at a show or home as now so I will go with the patient route for now. Innocent until proven guilty and such. If he squares up, I will sing his praises here. I absolutely can see Kens point of view though, and share much of it. Often the only way to recover in a situation like this, which really looks pretty fishy from his end, is to hit hard and fast. Time and patience really isnt your friend, not to mention it hurts pretty good when you are out the product and the $$ on top of it. Seems to me Kim Felts pulled that caper on me awhile back but everyone who said they got ripped off by her caught a bunch of flack here early on. Be patient they said, let her fall off of the earth, she will make good. Heard from her lately? I haven't. I even got a prompt email response and heap of lies from her when I got the chargeback from her paypal account. Lots of crying and problems. Why would I be skeptical?
Ken hit it on the head in the beginning of the thread, Paypal basically sucks. It is very convenient especially for the smaller seller or the buyer but they dont even attempt to protect anyone but Paypal. Their terms of service basically tell you that you are screwed (buyer or seller) and then they pull that ambush crap on my account. Going to ditch them, tired of it. In 10+ years with a merchant account I have had less trouble than I have out of Paypal in 12 months. Gonna have to bite the bullet and set up online CC/Debit processing on the site in addition to my existing merchant account and be done with it. It actually works out cheaper to do in the long run anyhow. Even without factoring in PayPals B.S. If you factor that in it is no contest (for both sides) and better deal. Just my opinion of course.
Rich Goldzung
Reptile Basics Inc
www.reptilebasics.com
Crested Lady
New member
Is there no way to protect your PayPal account? No "clearing" period so that you know after a certain amount of time...you and your money are fine? I guess I've been lucky and haven't had any PayPal problems yet, except for the occasional scam e-mail. I'll have to go back to their site and completely re-read all of their Terms. It's been so long since I set up my account that I can barely remember!
Reptile Basics
New member
Seems to me
that 30 days is the "safe time". Before then just about anything can happen. Assuming Chris is telling us the straight scoop here, does it seem logical that it would take Paypal from 6/27 to 7/18 to decide the account wasnt funded? Well, according to Paypal, maybe?!. Funny thing is Paypal suggests in the "you've been had" email if you havent already sent the merchandise you might want to wait? I am going to wait a month for them to get their S#$@ together before sending you your merchandise? With a regular Merchant accont provider you pretty well know right then and there. The only trouble you typically have is a fraud/theft case. That comes up within a max of 60 days from the transaction (30 days from the statement date the transaction appears on) and it is investigated reasonably well before anybody has to pay anything on either side. It is a chance no matter what payment you accpet but atleast if you can show the purchase was processed correctly you have a good chance of seeing your money. They dont pull the "account ambush" that paypal seems so fond of.
Rich Goldzung
Reptile Basics Inc
www.reptilebasics.com
that 30 days is the "safe time". Before then just about anything can happen. Assuming Chris is telling us the straight scoop here, does it seem logical that it would take Paypal from 6/27 to 7/18 to decide the account wasnt funded? Well, according to Paypal, maybe?!. Funny thing is Paypal suggests in the "you've been had" email if you havent already sent the merchandise you might want to wait? I am going to wait a month for them to get their S#$@ together before sending you your merchandise? With a regular Merchant accont provider you pretty well know right then and there. The only trouble you typically have is a fraud/theft case. That comes up within a max of 60 days from the transaction (30 days from the statement date the transaction appears on) and it is investigated reasonably well before anybody has to pay anything on either side. It is a chance no matter what payment you accpet but atleast if you can show the purchase was processed correctly you have a good chance of seeing your money. They dont pull the "account ambush" that paypal seems so fond of.
Rich Goldzung
Reptile Basics Inc
www.reptilebasics.com
Gecko_Den
New member
Hmmm, Chris was here, profile said he was typing a reply, guess he changed his mind. I for one would be interested in hearing his explanation now that another person has come forward with such a similar complaint. Makes you wonder if there are others we don't yet know about.......
HerpLuver
The Boogeyman!
Ok i will answer everyone's questions in order
Let me go about this in an orderly fashion.
I'll post a quote from myself answering this question.
Next,
Excuses are something you make up to get your butt out of trouble you put yourself into. REASONS are something that has happened to create a situation, whether controlled or uncontrollable.
Whether its worth more or not, a female will take me 2 1/2 to 3 years to breed, a male will only take me 9 mo's or so.
True but i have friends there that i figured would be able to tell me in all honesty what they were looking at. I posted in chat rooms first, then on forums.
They are people i have known to be very knowledgable in reptiles. Whom have helped me sex animals before since im not that great at doing it myself. Im still a bit on the itchy side of doing it myself since i dont want to hurt the animal and from what i hear you can rupture a male if your not careful, do i want that on my hands NO. Why not someone with alot more experience do it for me.
Thats what im trying to do.
As to him attempting to contact me, I received a phone call on my cell phone at approximately 4:22pm est from Ken's phone number, message lasted 14 seconds and stated this "Chris, Ken Foster, 561-***-****, give me a call and i think you know what im calling about"
I also received an email that hit my email box at 5:15 pm, not sure if i should post that though.
I would like to know when the reversal happened also, here's a copy/paste of my paypal history, what does it say next to Ken Foster's name
All Activity - Simple View from Jun. 20, 2005 to Jul. 20, 2005
Date Type To/From Name/Email Status Details Action Amount
Jul. 4, 2005 Payment To Ken Foster Completed Details -$600.00 USD
Jul. 4, 2005 Payment To [email protected] (wrong email) Cancelled Details $600.00 USD
My balance, why is paypal charging us BOTH for this?
Balance: -$1,016.24 USD
Restore your balance
View Limits
I am willing to take the whole brunt but not letting paypal get away with getting 1200 for a 600 dollar transaction. For your info, more than just ken's transactions bounced due to this problem so im dealing with not just him, but 2 other people including Rich from Reptile Basics.
I had NO idea that there was a problem with Ken's account. I figured since it was MY account that bounced, it would be MY repercussions, not Ken's also. When you use a debit card to buy stuff from wal-mart, and something happens, does wal-mart get deducted for it? No, the person with the DC does.
Again, Rich im sorry, but like i've said i didnt realize you and Ken would have had problems because of this. I was trying to figure it out on my own since i thought the problem was only MINE to bear.
These emails originated on July 4th at around 2 pm EST. I sent the first email from Kingsnake i believe. That is where the original ad appeared.
Also, These emails are in reverse order as they were sent to me, this is a reply, bounced back and forth. Also i contacted Ken at approximately 3 pm i believe and we spoke on the phone, where he stated that his daughter Victoria was actually the one selling the animal but she was a minor and that me and him (Ken) should do the business end of things.
Date: Tue, 5 Jul 2005 18:04:48 -0400
From: [email protected] Add to Address Book
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Message about: 1.0 Beautiful Pastel - 4th Special $600. Shippe
Chris,
Your male pastel is on his way. Your federal express tracking number
is 850871611667. You should be able to track it by 8:00pm est. He was
picked up at 5:30pm. Please allow him a couple of days to adjust before
handling too much.
He should be offered a pinkie this weekend. Please let me know if you
have any problems or questions. I have attached a photo of his father
for your records.
Thanks for the business.
Best Regards,
Ken and Victoria Foster
---- Christopher Altizer <[email protected]> wrote:
Victoria and Ken,
Thank you for your timely response. What are your gaurantee's on your
animals? Sex, Health, Feeding, etc...? Plus is there a phone number i
can contact you at for my records?
Thank you for your time. I will be sending payment shortly if all goes
well.
Money is sent (This is because before i finished typing the email i paypal'd the money to Ken, which was actually the wrong email addy at first but i fixed it while talking on the phone to Ken)
Shipping address is
Chris Altizer
126 W. Inca St
Aberdeen, MD 21001
Phone# 443-307-6845
Chris Altizer
[email protected] wrote:
Chris,
This male is being sold at this price for today only. He is a beautiful
VPI pastel born in mid-June. He has shed and is eating live pinkies. He
is really a nice looking animal. I am accepting paypal payments only at
[email protected]. I ship Monday thru Thursday's via Federal
Express. He was hatched out of my own private collection. I just took a larger
jpg so you can his beautiful colors. You are the first of several
emails so you get the first chance at him.
Thanks for the interest.
Victoria and Ken
---- [email protected] wrote:
Im interested in your BP, please contact me asap. Thank you.
END OF EMAILS (besides the one's regarding the "fraud" i supposedly committed
If there are any questions i missed or more questions to be asked, Please ask them and i'll answer immediately.
Now, My point of veiw of this entire mess.
My paypal account is in the negative for this transaction, If i send money to Ken, and then pay my paypal up to date, I will have dished out 1200 dollars. If ken goes about me having to pay for the snake and the money he paid paypal, which in an email to me is 582 dollars, That will be 1182 dollars. Do i want to make this right? Yes! Can i aquire 600 dollars by tomorrow around noon? Impossible, I have 300 right now, will that satiate Ken for me to get the rest? I doubt it. Do I have a better chance of allowing the law to step in and hear both side's of the story where-as i may be able to prove my case that this was not fraud or intended, and turn this around on PAYPAL for fraudulent activities? (in my opinion that is what it is, Asking for 2 people to pay for the same transaction) Again to sound like a broken record, I should be the only one having to pay paypal for this.
Im just voicing my thoughts and opinions.
Did i make some stupid choices as to the validity of the animal's morph and sex? Yes. I cannot apologize enough for that..
Still no idea on how to handle this, either way im out 1200 dollars.
Let me go about this in an orderly fashion.
I'll post a quote from myself answering this question.
Next,
Excuses are something you make up to get your butt out of trouble you put yourself into. REASONS are something that has happened to create a situation, whether controlled or uncontrollable.
Whether its worth more or not, a female will take me 2 1/2 to 3 years to breed, a male will only take me 9 mo's or so.
True but i have friends there that i figured would be able to tell me in all honesty what they were looking at. I posted in chat rooms first, then on forums.
They are people i have known to be very knowledgable in reptiles. Whom have helped me sex animals before since im not that great at doing it myself. Im still a bit on the itchy side of doing it myself since i dont want to hurt the animal and from what i hear you can rupture a male if your not careful, do i want that on my hands NO. Why not someone with alot more experience do it for me.
Thats what im trying to do.
As to him attempting to contact me, I received a phone call on my cell phone at approximately 4:22pm est from Ken's phone number, message lasted 14 seconds and stated this "Chris, Ken Foster, 561-***-****, give me a call and i think you know what im calling about"
I also received an email that hit my email box at 5:15 pm, not sure if i should post that though.
I would like to know when the reversal happened also, here's a copy/paste of my paypal history, what does it say next to Ken Foster's name
All Activity - Simple View from Jun. 20, 2005 to Jul. 20, 2005
Date Type To/From Name/Email Status Details Action Amount
Jul. 4, 2005 Payment To Ken Foster Completed Details -$600.00 USD
Jul. 4, 2005 Payment To [email protected] (wrong email) Cancelled Details $600.00 USD
My balance, why is paypal charging us BOTH for this?
Balance: -$1,016.24 USD
Restore your balance
View Limits
I am willing to take the whole brunt but not letting paypal get away with getting 1200 for a 600 dollar transaction. For your info, more than just ken's transactions bounced due to this problem so im dealing with not just him, but 2 other people including Rich from Reptile Basics.
I had NO idea that there was a problem with Ken's account. I figured since it was MY account that bounced, it would be MY repercussions, not Ken's also. When you use a debit card to buy stuff from wal-mart, and something happens, does wal-mart get deducted for it? No, the person with the DC does.
Again, Rich im sorry, but like i've said i didnt realize you and Ken would have had problems because of this. I was trying to figure it out on my own since i thought the problem was only MINE to bear.
These emails originated on July 4th at around 2 pm EST. I sent the first email from Kingsnake i believe. That is where the original ad appeared.
Also, These emails are in reverse order as they were sent to me, this is a reply, bounced back and forth. Also i contacted Ken at approximately 3 pm i believe and we spoke on the phone, where he stated that his daughter Victoria was actually the one selling the animal but she was a minor and that me and him (Ken) should do the business end of things.
Date: Tue, 5 Jul 2005 18:04:48 -0400
From: [email protected] Add to Address Book
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Message about: 1.0 Beautiful Pastel - 4th Special $600. Shippe
Chris,
Your male pastel is on his way. Your federal express tracking number
is 850871611667. You should be able to track it by 8:00pm est. He was
picked up at 5:30pm. Please allow him a couple of days to adjust before
handling too much.
He should be offered a pinkie this weekend. Please let me know if you
have any problems or questions. I have attached a photo of his father
for your records.
Thanks for the business.
Best Regards,
Ken and Victoria Foster
---- Christopher Altizer <[email protected]> wrote:
Victoria and Ken,
Thank you for your timely response. What are your gaurantee's on your
animals? Sex, Health, Feeding, etc...? Plus is there a phone number i
can contact you at for my records?
Thank you for your time. I will be sending payment shortly if all goes
well.
Money is sent (This is because before i finished typing the email i paypal'd the money to Ken, which was actually the wrong email addy at first but i fixed it while talking on the phone to Ken)
Shipping address is
Chris Altizer
126 W. Inca St
Aberdeen, MD 21001
Phone# 443-307-6845
Chris Altizer
[email protected] wrote:
Chris,
This male is being sold at this price for today only. He is a beautiful
VPI pastel born in mid-June. He has shed and is eating live pinkies. He
is really a nice looking animal. I am accepting paypal payments only at
[email protected]. I ship Monday thru Thursday's via Federal
Express. He was hatched out of my own private collection. I just took a larger
jpg so you can his beautiful colors. You are the first of several
emails so you get the first chance at him.
Thanks for the interest.
Victoria and Ken
---- [email protected] wrote:
Im interested in your BP, please contact me asap. Thank you.
END OF EMAILS (besides the one's regarding the "fraud" i supposedly committed
If there are any questions i missed or more questions to be asked, Please ask them and i'll answer immediately.
Now, My point of veiw of this entire mess.
My paypal account is in the negative for this transaction, If i send money to Ken, and then pay my paypal up to date, I will have dished out 1200 dollars. If ken goes about me having to pay for the snake and the money he paid paypal, which in an email to me is 582 dollars, That will be 1182 dollars. Do i want to make this right? Yes! Can i aquire 600 dollars by tomorrow around noon? Impossible, I have 300 right now, will that satiate Ken for me to get the rest? I doubt it. Do I have a better chance of allowing the law to step in and hear both side's of the story where-as i may be able to prove my case that this was not fraud or intended, and turn this around on PAYPAL for fraudulent activities? (in my opinion that is what it is, Asking for 2 people to pay for the same transaction) Again to sound like a broken record, I should be the only one having to pay paypal for this.
Im just voicing my thoughts and opinions.
Did i make some stupid choices as to the validity of the animal's morph and sex? Yes. I cannot apologize enough for that..
Still no idea on how to handle this, either way im out 1200 dollars.
Gecko_Den
New member
You wan't to know the right way to handle this?
First you send Ken his snake back plus any fees that he may have incurred as a result of the pay pal reversal.
Second, you do what ever you have to do to pay back what ever amount you owe to Rich. Borrow the money , sell something, whatever it takes to satisfy him.
Third you deal with YOUR Pay Pal problems. Because in all reality they are YOUR problems, not Ken or Rich's problem.
That's how you take care of the situation.
First you send Ken his snake back plus any fees that he may have incurred as a result of the pay pal reversal.
Second, you do what ever you have to do to pay back what ever amount you owe to Rich. Borrow the money , sell something, whatever it takes to satisfy him.
Third you deal with YOUR Pay Pal problems. Because in all reality they are YOUR problems, not Ken or Rich's problem.
That's how you take care of the situation.
critical bill
New member
- Joined
- Sep 13, 2004
- Messages
- 5,157
- Reaction score
- 177
- Points
- 0
- Age
- 60
- Location
- Kissimmee, Florida USA
Gecko_Den said:
I think any transaction during the time of his banking problem would end with the same result. Bounced. So of course there will be others. I'll bet some that are not even reptile related purchases that we may never see here. Regardless of how many he owes he is here and trying to make them right. Lets give the guy a chance before assuming he is running some sort of scam.
I don't think Jim O is a poor judge of character (he's great at auction sniping too). If he says Chris is on the level thats OK for me to hold off harassing and badgering him. Its like a professional courtesy.
Reptile Basics
New member
Well I have followed Chris reply
And at face value I would have to agree with his assesment that 1200 or so is a bit hard to swallow to fix the mistake. Sounds to me like Ken needs to get his snake back yesterday. That is about the only logical way out. Dont know if he (Ken) likes that solution but it would seem the best out for most everyone. I will take payment or merchandise returned outside of paypal because it would seem ludicrous to pay off 1200 to paypal to pay me less than 200. Problem more or less solved?
And at face value I would have to agree with his assesment that 1200 or so is a bit hard to swallow to fix the mistake. Sounds to me like Ken needs to get his snake back yesterday. That is about the only logical way out. Dont know if he (Ken) likes that solution but it would seem the best out for most everyone. I will take payment or merchandise returned outside of paypal because it would seem ludicrous to pay off 1200 to paypal to pay me less than 200. Problem more or less solved?
HerpLuver
The Boogeyman!
Well, as a short reply before i head to work.
I spoke to paypal last night, and had a lengthy discussion with them. It's NOT considered fraud since they know people have problems in life sometimes. I called them in order to see if i could get them to return the funds to Ken and Rich. They explained to me, They removed the funds from there accounts because when they originally sent the money it was a "good faith" transaction. When my bank declined the transfers they decided to get there money back. The reason my account is in the negative? Because once i pay the $1,016 they immediately send the money to the accounts i had paid. I cannot cancel the payments, so here's a HUGE dilemma. If i pay cash to Ken and RIch, Then i pay my paypal, Ken and Rich will get paid AGAIN. If i send the snake back to Ken, and either cash or items back to Rich, Then i pay my paypal back, They will get paid and have the items in there possession. I have MORE questions to ask myself.
Do i think Rich will pay me the money back if i pay him now, and when paypal pays him the 2nd time? I trust he will.
Do i think Ken will pay me the money back if i pay him or send the snake back, and when paypal pays him the 2nd time? NO!
Did i trust Ken to be Professional with me and act business like? Yes, but instead he acted like a child (in my opinion) and ran to these boards without so much as a "Maybe i should give him time to call me back" He then defamed my character, slandered my name, Labeled me a Scammer and a Fraud, And drug the company i work for into this. They have nothing to do with it, and have NO association with ANY of my reptile related transactions.
I dont care that everyone know's my address and phone number, By all means, But my WORK? On a public forum that get's thousands of hit's per day..... I'll be contacting Capt Trabert for the 3rd time, to speak with him regarding all of this.
I spoke to paypal last night, and had a lengthy discussion with them. It's NOT considered fraud since they know people have problems in life sometimes. I called them in order to see if i could get them to return the funds to Ken and Rich. They explained to me, They removed the funds from there accounts because when they originally sent the money it was a "good faith" transaction. When my bank declined the transfers they decided to get there money back. The reason my account is in the negative? Because once i pay the $1,016 they immediately send the money to the accounts i had paid. I cannot cancel the payments, so here's a HUGE dilemma. If i pay cash to Ken and RIch, Then i pay my paypal, Ken and Rich will get paid AGAIN. If i send the snake back to Ken, and either cash or items back to Rich, Then i pay my paypal back, They will get paid and have the items in there possession. I have MORE questions to ask myself.
Do i think Rich will pay me the money back if i pay him now, and when paypal pays him the 2nd time? I trust he will.
Do i think Ken will pay me the money back if i pay him or send the snake back, and when paypal pays him the 2nd time? NO!
Did i trust Ken to be Professional with me and act business like? Yes, but instead he acted like a child (in my opinion) and ran to these boards without so much as a "Maybe i should give him time to call me back" He then defamed my character, slandered my name, Labeled me a Scammer and a Fraud, And drug the company i work for into this. They have nothing to do with it, and have NO association with ANY of my reptile related transactions.
I dont care that everyone know's my address and phone number, By all means, But my WORK? On a public forum that get's thousands of hit's per day..... I'll be contacting Capt Trabert for the 3rd time, to speak with him regarding all of this.
Reptile Basics
New member
Well that is a spot you're in.
Well it would seem I will have to go back to Paypal sucks. They should never have done this transaction or any other on "good faith". If they hadnt none of this ever would have come up, be it a scam, honest mistake or otherwise. Just like a CC or debit card. If the money aint there the transaction is dead to start with. Not some cluster to be hashed out later. Bye Bye paypal. Let me know what you decide to do and we will figure out a way to make it work out.
Rich Goldzung
Reptile Basics Inc
www.reptilebasics.com
Well it would seem I will have to go back to Paypal sucks. They should never have done this transaction or any other on "good faith". If they hadnt none of this ever would have come up, be it a scam, honest mistake or otherwise. Just like a CC or debit card. If the money aint there the transaction is dead to start with. Not some cluster to be hashed out later. Bye Bye paypal. Let me know what you decide to do and we will figure out a way to make it work out.
Rich Goldzung
Reptile Basics Inc
www.reptilebasics.com
Jim O
Careful with that axe...
Sorry to have missed all of this. My cable company decided to crap the bed for 24 hours and I am just getting back online.
Ken, how's this? I will guarantee you your money. Look at my feedback and my good guy here. And see that it has been posted in a public forum. We can do it one of several ways:
Rich, you and I have met in person and done business online. Not to embarrass you, but once you sent me the wrong product. Did I run here to report it without giving you a chance to make it right? Of course not. I e-mailed and you fixed it. Done deal, very professionally handled. As I recall, I then paid you for the product that you originally shipped even though I hadn't ordered it because I knew I would use it. You never asked for payment or for a return. Professionally handled on your part, and some might say honorably on my part. I'll offer you the same deal as Ken just got offered. You know I am good for it.
Now let's point out that Chris has not ducked this thread. Chris has been upfront. Because of his carelessness combined with a bank error he has $1100 in "bounce" fees because PayPal tried to charge his account multiple times. So did some other merchants. At $75 a pop (I'm just guessing) you can imagine how that easily can happen.
So how about it guys? I'm going out on a limb here? Anyone think I'm stupid enough to throw $800 away on a bad bet?
[email protected]
757-650-9897
Ken, how's this? I will guarantee you your money. Look at my feedback and my good guy here. And see that it has been posted in a public forum. We can do it one of several ways:
- you can give Chris 10 business days to satisfy you through PayPal and if he has not I will pay you myself
- Chris can send back the snake
- if you are that impatient I will pay you NOW and settle up later when Chris has paid PayPal
- under any of these scenarios, Chris will still have to pay PayPal and you will get paid. If I pay you and then PayPal pays you again, you agree to forward the money back to me and if you do not then you will be reported here to the BOI
- if Chris returns the snake and then pays PayPal, you agree to immediately refund any payment received from them back to Chris or face the same reporting back here to the BOI
Rich, you and I have met in person and done business online. Not to embarrass you, but once you sent me the wrong product. Did I run here to report it without giving you a chance to make it right? Of course not. I e-mailed and you fixed it. Done deal, very professionally handled. As I recall, I then paid you for the product that you originally shipped even though I hadn't ordered it because I knew I would use it. You never asked for payment or for a return. Professionally handled on your part, and some might say honorably on my part. I'll offer you the same deal as Ken just got offered. You know I am good for it.
Now let's point out that Chris has not ducked this thread. Chris has been upfront. Because of his carelessness combined with a bank error he has $1100 in "bounce" fees because PayPal tried to charge his account multiple times. So did some other merchants. At $75 a pop (I'm just guessing) you can imagine how that easily can happen.
So how about it guys? I'm going out on a limb here? Anyone think I'm stupid enough to throw $800 away on a bad bet?
[email protected]
757-650-9897
Gecko_Den
New member
HerpLuver said:
Are you kidding me? So now this is Ken's fault and he is being unprofessional and acting like a child?
Be a friggin man and accept some responsibility. Jim posted in his thread on page 2 that he had talked to you and the reason these "problems" started was due to you not being able to balance your checkbook.
You had the snake for nearly 2 weeks prior to Ken posting here. In that time YOU determined it was not a pastel and was not properly sexed. Did you address these concerns with Ken? No instead you decided to pass the snake off to someone else as a pastel and in your own words "might be able to make a couple bucks on it and still purchase a male from someone." You think you handled that professionally? Looks pretty shady to me. Now Ken not only sees you re-selling the snake but the money gets yanked out of his account. How does that look to him, I know how it looks to me. He attempted to contact you, and in the mean time brought his concerns to the BOI, in an attempt to warn others that may potentially be getting scammed by you.
You then come here with a boat load of excuses, and regardless of you calling them "reasons" they are excuses. Then you try and play it off like you are some kind of a victim here when it was your own irresponsible bookkeeping, followed up by some extremely dumb re-selling actions that got you into this mess in the first place. Then to put the icing on the cake you insult Ken because he doesn't want to handle the situation the way you want it handled?
You are a piece of work. I have the highest regard for Jim O., and if he want's to go out on a limb for you with Ken that just shows how much of a good guy he really is, but Chris I wouldn't sell you a bag of ice.
As I said in an earlier post, be a man, pay back the people you owe, then worry about your problems with Pay Pal. If Ken gets paid twice and wont return funds, a scenario I hardly see happening, then do the same thing he did and go after him using proper legal channels. It may inconvenience you a bit, but no more than you have inconvenienced the other players in your little drama.
Dennis Hultman
New member
Chris, I can understand and sympathize with your situation until this post.
Ken has done absolutely no wrong. You have his snake and you have not paid for it. Plain and simple. The problems are on your side of the transaction not his.
You mean like you have his snake and he has not received a dime. Instead he has been charged for your problems.
Does it matter? After all he did trust that he was being paid when he shipped out.
If it were my character that was being questioned, I would try and do the right thing regardless. The fact remains you have his snake and have not paid for it. Send it back on good faith, if it wants it.
Well, that is what it is here for. If your not scamming anyone, which I do not think you are, it all comes out so people will know what kind of business person you are. Honestly, If you were to send out an animal and had the payment for the animal reversed due to insufficient funds would you not seek resolution and post wherever you can to bring it to light.
The worst thing you can do is start changing the focus to Ken. It is your problem not his. An honest person with good character would not have second thoughts about sending that snake back immediately, if had not paid for it yet. If/when you get your Paypal caught-up you can deal with the situation then.
Ken has done absolutely no wrong. You have his snake and you have not paid for it. Plain and simple. The problems are on your side of the transaction not his.
HerpLuver said:
You mean like you have his snake and he has not received a dime. Instead he has been charged for your problems.
HerpLuver said:
Does it matter? After all he did trust that he was being paid when he shipped out.
If it were my character that was being questioned, I would try and do the right thing regardless. The fact remains you have his snake and have not paid for it. Send it back on good faith, if it wants it.
HerpLuver said:
Well, that is what it is here for. If your not scamming anyone, which I do not think you are, it all comes out so people will know what kind of business person you are. Honestly, If you were to send out an animal and had the payment for the animal reversed due to insufficient funds would you not seek resolution and post wherever you can to bring it to light.
The worst thing you can do is start changing the focus to Ken. It is your problem not his. An honest person with good character would not have second thoughts about sending that snake back immediately, if had not paid for it yet. If/when you get your Paypal caught-up you can deal with the situation then.
Dennis Hultman
New member
Jim, I did not see your post before hand. Nice of you to step-up to the plate to help someone out but there is still absolutely no reason for Chris to try and make Ken out to be a Bad Guy here with his post.
Shortcut:
If you feel strongly enough that this will all workout just Paypal it to Chris and Ken will be automatically paid then Chris just owes you.
Shortcut:
If you feel strongly enough that this will all workout just Paypal it to Chris and Ken will be automatically paid then Chris just owes you.
Jim O said:
Jim O
Careful with that axe...
I don't think that Ken is being a bad guy here, but he hardly gave Chris any time at all before he posted here (hours) and gave until the beginning of the next business day to straighten it out when it was already long after business hours.
Also, his argument that he has been "double charged" is "doublespeak". He is not out the snake and the money. He is out the snake. And he will either get the snake or the money back, not both. It's like a bounced check. You aren't out money if you never really had it, now are you? Ken should have one, but not both. He is out one, not both.
It is Ken's choice to try to press charges. I doubt it will get far. This sounds like multiple errors, but not malicious intent. Heck, I've already put my money where my mouth is. The ball is in these other guy's court.
Sam, given Ken's inflexibility, do you really blame Chris for not wanting to do anything put proceed through PayPal directly? Really?
Also, his argument that he has been "double charged" is "doublespeak". He is not out the snake and the money. He is out the snake. And he will either get the snake or the money back, not both. It's like a bounced check. You aren't out money if you never really had it, now are you? Ken should have one, but not both. He is out one, not both.
It is Ken's choice to try to press charges. I doubt it will get far. This sounds like multiple errors, but not malicious intent. Heck, I've already put my money where my mouth is. The ball is in these other guy's court.
Sam, given Ken's inflexibility, do you really blame Chris for not wanting to do anything put proceed through PayPal directly? Really?
Gecko_Den
New member
Jim O said:
Absolutly. Chris gave up any right to complain about Ken being inflexable when he tried to re-sell that snake with out addressing his alleged non-pastel /mis-sexed claims with Ken.
Based on Chris' actions and excuses, even before he attempted to turn things around on Ken and accuse him of being unprofessional and childish, he hasn't given Ken any reason to "cut him any slack", or frankly to believe anything that Chris has said from the beginning.
Let me ask you Jim, had Chris been upfront and honest and contacted Ken as soon as he received the snake and discussed his concerns with him, do you think Ken maybe would have been more inclined to work with Chris on a resolution?
He can sugar coat the facts any way he likes, bottom line is Chris brought this upon himself, it is his responsibility to get himself out of it. So far he hasn't even accepted that it was his fault, he is still blaming Pay Pal, the bank, Ken, whatever, "woe is me I'm the victim of the bank wanting to me to have enough money in my account to cover my debit card purchases."
Jim O
Careful with that axe...
Sam I have no argument that this could have been handled better. But I would say that he has accepted his responsibility and offered an explanation as follows:
Now suppose he had expressed these concerns and shipped the snake back, and then Ken refunded the money. Two weeks later, PayPal comes along and takes it again from Ken except now Ken would have the snake and be out the $600 cash and we would be in the same place. Chris would owe Ken the $600. So in essence how he handled the other issues are moot. Yes, he handled them wrong, but had he done it right we would still be exactly where we are.HerpLuver said: