Inquiry on Het Pieds from Ace Reptiles

[MikeCurtin]

Tony got that .1 Spider het O.Ghost from me. I picked her up in a trade deal from Allen along with a 1. BumbleBee het O.G and .2 Pastel het O.G. Allen took the 1. BumbleBee and the .2 Pastel's back from me in another trade deal and gave me full het value. If he had given me false hets in the first place I doubt if he woiuld have been interested in taking them back and reselling them.

I was simply pointing out that Alan does not have the best credibility when it comes to genetics from what I've heard. If Alan had misrepresented the animal(s), if he hadn't offered you full het price upon return just a few months later, he'd be looking pretty fishy. Maybe the animals are what he stated, maybe it was a CYA kinda thing.

 

[RJK890]

CYA kinda' thing... Is that another conspiracy theory of yours? I doubt that many breeders out here would give full market value(the same value he placed on them last season) on animals that they had sold. He could have said he was not interested in a trade or that he would give me wholesale prices without looking fishy. If it was a CYA kinda' thing I don't think he would have taken them back, and if he did why would he post them on KS again?

 

[MikeCurtin]

CYA kinda' thing... Is that another conspiracy theory of yours?

You're right, I'm the a@#$#@%. LOL. Just referencing a "het" that happened to have been through the hands of 2 known scammers (Tony and Allen). Sorry if I may have cast any doubt on 2 guys you had "positive experiences" with while at least one of them was selling fake hets. Ethics of neither Tony, nor Allen should have been called into question. My mistake

 

[RJK890]

Take it easy man, eat the blue pill.

Originally posted by Captnemo: You're right, I'm the a@#$#@%. LOL.

I never said that Mike. Not that I disagree with you, but I think it's profanity? I would have said something like, "You are an ." You are correct though, I did have positive experiences with both of them. Actually, two now with Allen but I am waiting until April before posting about the second one.

It is obvious from this thread that you were scammed by Tony on some false hets. I made a trade deal with him and posted that experience before Joe Compels post. There was no evidence of a scam then and several people, including me thought that you were jumping the gun by posting this thread at the time. I am still happy with the Albino that I got from Tony, but would obviously never purchase a het from him.

Allen has nothing to do with Tony though. I traded the Spider het O.G that I got from Allen to Tony. Again, that was before this thread had any substance to it. I am sorry that Allen's name has now been dragged into this thread and posted in an AceReptiles Ad because I traded one of his animals to Tony. It could have been anyones animal/name, even yours.

 

[Junkyard]

Allen has nothing to do with Tony though. I traded the Spider het O.G that I got from Allen to Tony. Again, that was before this thread had any substance to it. I am sorry that Allen's name has now been dragged into this thread and posted in an AceReptiles Ad because I traded one of his animals to Tony. It could have been anyones animal/name, even yours.

Coincidences stink, don't they?

 

[MikeCurtin]

Don't need pills.....

Allen has nothing to do with Tony though. I traded the Spider het O.G that I got from Allen to Tony. Again, that was before this thread had any substance to it. I am sorry that Allen's name has now been dragged into this thread and posted in an AceReptiles Ad because I traded one of his animals to Tony. It could have been anyones animal/name, even yours.

I wasn't getting excited over anything. I'm sorry you feel bad for Allen, but when one scammer uses another (or someone with questionable ethics at best) to verify a het, it's bound to raise some eyebrows.

 

[Cat_72]

Actually, two now with Allen but I am waiting until April before posting about the second one.

Curious....why wait until April to post about it if it was such a good experience? Not 100% sure it WAS a good deal, or....?

And did these deals take place before or after Allen sold animals that died from IBD?

You are 100% correct, Allen and Tony may have nothing to do with each other, but as has been said, when one known liar uses another known liar as a reference, you have to question why.

 

[RJK890]

Can we get the chat fixed already...lol

Junkyard, Yeah coincidences do stink.

Cat, I am very sure I had another good transaction with Allen. However, Because I know the response to my posting about it I am waiting until after 120 days of quarantine.

After. About 2-3 years after that other thread was posted(I believe.) As I said in the thread on Allen, I don't give much weight to that allegation. A single infected hatchling whose litter mates are thriving, sold at a show 2-3 years ago, the necro was for a 6mo. or 1 yr.old snake, and not one other person claims to have received an infected animal . The yellow business card does look bad but I don't consider that an epidemic.

Question what you will, I have already explained it. Maybe y'all are more interested in coincidences and conspiracy theories than the Fact's. Tony is not using Allen as a reference , he just said that Allen could confirm the genetics of the .! Spider het O.G that I got from Allen, and traded to Tony.

 

[Cat_72]

After. About 2-3 years after that other thread was posted(I believe.) As I said in the thread on Allen, I don't give much weight to that allegation. A single infected hatchling whose litter mates are thriving, sold at a show 2-3 years ago, the necro was for a 6mo. or 1 yr.old snake, and not one other person claims to have received an infected animal . The yellow business card does look bad but I don't consider that an epidemic.

What does the age on the necropsy have to do with anything? The hatchling in question was purchased from Allen in August of 2006, and was dead from IBD by October of 2006. What is there to refute?

Not another person claims to have gotten an infected animals? What about the Spider Ball purchased from Allen that died, also thought to have been from IBD?

Regardless of whether you believe the IBD "conspiracy" or not, Allen was proven to have LIED multiple times through the whole issue....leading to the conclusion that he is a LIAR.

Tony was proven to be lying about owning that pied male, and selling hets sired by "his" pied male. Therefore, I would conclude that he is a LIAR.

Which would also lead to the conclusion, that since Tony is referring people to Allen to verify the authenticity of these supposed hets, that a LIAR is using a LIAR as a reference. No coincidences or conspiracy theories needed.

 

[MikeCurtin]

Well, I came here because I had some bad feelings about Tony's ethics which were later found out to be warranted. I gave him ample time to respond, which he didn't do, and then we all found out why. IMO, this thread has done its job and there has now been at least a couple of folks that have re-thought potential dealings w/ him.

I guess I shouldn't have thrown my $.02 in about the other hets he's been selling, or the questionable source (Allen Belcher). I just didn't foresee anyone defending their honor w/ such vigor. I really don't see how anyone could go out of their way to defend people of such poor character.

 

[Cat_72]

Well, I came here because I had some bad feelings about Tony's ethics which were later found out to be warranted. I gave him ample time to respond, which he didn't do, and then we all found out why. IMO, this thread has done its job and there has now been at least a couple of folks that have re-thought potential dealings w/ him.

I guess I shouldn't have thrown my $.02 in about the other hets he's been selling, or the questionable source (Allen Belcher). I just didn't foresee anyone defending their honor w/ such vigor. I really don't see how anyone could go out of their way to defend people of such poor character.

Not only that....but I don't see why people still make purchases from such sources, when there are so many HONEST folks out there that you could be giving your hard-earned money to.

 

[jmartin104]

Not only that....but I don't see why people still make purchases from such sources, when there are so many HONEST folks out there that you could be giving your hard-earned money to.

Doesn't say much for the hobby does it.

 

[MikeCurtin]

Doesn't say much for the hobby does it.

Maybe not, but there's many people out there that we can all say good things about. It's just a question of who one wants to support. I'd rather play the odds a little more safely w/ my next purchase. Again, this has been my first taste of the BP Morph thing. I deal mainly w/ Aussie pythons. This has made me a bit wiser and more aware of the red flags that shot up when this thread started.

 

[big daddy's wholesal]

I have never met or had a phone conversation with Tony. He emailed me wanting to know if I did sell a spider het ghost to Rob. I emailed him back and said yes that I did. That was it. Since that conversation he has had several people call and email me concerning a spider het ghost and has given some of them wrong information.
On another note I would like for some of you (CAT) to start another thread asking about anyone who has received a het that did not prove from me. As I have stated before, you will not find one.
The reason for my policy on hets is that snakes can retain sperm, I have three employees and me or one of them could make a mistake, and I heard and then read about this policy from another large breeder and liked it and decided to adopt it to my own practice.
The spider necropsy stated no inclusions. I called the vet and said the snake had been force fed and he thought that the procedure had been preformed incorrectly. If I had IBD with as many snakes as I sell a year, the virus would be nationwide by now and I would be above Bin Laden as Americas #1.
I DON'T HAVE A DOG IN THIS FIGHT AND WOULD PREFER IT BE KEPT THAT WAY!

Allen Belcher 706-615-4772

 

[MikeCurtin]

Allen-
Regardless of merit, I feel it is safe to say that your reputation is not the best. This was the only reason I mentioned you as the source of Tony's het. Having said that, I'm glad you chimed in and stand by your animals. Whether or not I would deal with you, I respect that and I'll try to keep this thread on topic.
Mike

 

[MikeCurtin]

Funny how this thief no longer offers his own guarantee on his "hets"....sure someone else can verify them....IF this scammer sent the same animals that he actually received from the one(s) who produced them.

http://market.kingsnake.com/detail.php?cat=32&de=585100
http://market.kingsnake.com/detail.php?cat=32&de=585098

Hey Tony...send 'em to me and I can back 'em after they prove out.

 

[Joe C]

Hey Captnemo,

I know you are a Jersey guy. If you plan on going to the White Plains show this weekend, please shoot me an email. I'd like to catch up to see what else you can tell me about this guy (besides that he used my pictures to sell his "hets").

Thanks,
Joe

 

[MikeCurtin]

Hey Joe-

I doubt I'll make it this time. Schedule's been kinda hectic. I'll be at Hamburg, though. Are you going to be there?

Mike

 

[TheVipersHouse]

I was inquiring on Kingsnake with someone on a 100% het pied female they have for sale
and the snake has no Markers for being het for pied ..
so i emailed him asking where it came from and if it had no markers why was he selling it as 100% Het
i got an email from him stating they came from Ace Reptiles with 100% genetic guarantee .

i just informed the seller of this thread cause i just happened to come across it .. i feel bad for him cause he is selling something that aint what its supposed to be

 

[MikeCurtin]

Yeah, I doubt this will be the last we see. What sucks is that the seller probably has no recourse, unless he kept all e-mails and documented everything!