Jeff Gee -Captive Bred wildlife foundation- Bad Businessman

[DaveyFig]

Jeff was still selling het for hypos last year at the Tinley show. I thought then and I still think he may have had his time, but excuse me for being frank, he is a joke. How can anyone sell het for hypos as late as 2006.., let alone F5 hypos for 5k (those snakes have been online for at least 3 years now).....unbelievable.

Bob McPhee

Bob, was he selling het for hypos that were visually normal? Or was he selling hypos that were not supers as het hypos?
If I just saw a sign that said "Het Hypos" in passing, I doubt that I would have taken the time to even stop and look at them, but really, all of the hypos in a litter that aren't supers would be het hypos right?
I am just trying to figure out how someone like Gee could still be offereing het for hypos. In a hypo to hypo breeding though, there are normals, heterozygous but visual hypos, and homozygous hypos.
Maybe the Het hypos were f1s that he knew for a fact weren't supers, and he was selling f4s as homozygous given the high likelyhood that they would be homozygous?

 

[Rockford]

Glad you noticed.
The radiated tortoise thing is a little disheartening.
But what can ya do? All i can do is ask for my money back.
He has offered me some ivory sulcatas. He does seem like he wants to make it right with animals, but does not want to come off the money.
Thats the way it goes sometimes. I will just hope for the best.

Thanks all
Mike

So is Jeff going to offer some F5 Hypos for trade on those Radiated Tortoises???

That's just not right.......Mike you seem like a really nice guy but I think you are being too nice. Have you contacted him regarding this? Jeff needs to make this right only with cash....Ivory Giant Tortoises are nice but come on....did you trade him 8K worth of Geckos for those DH's???

I have been trying not to stick my nose into these threads lately but your deal just struck a nerve with me.....

 

[Martino Reptiles]

In a hypo to hypo breeding though, there are normals, heterozygous but visual hypos, and homozygous hypos. Maybe the Het hypos were f1s that he knew for a fact weren't supers, and he was selling f4s as homozygous given the high likelyhood that they would be homozygous?

When he was selling them in '94 as hets. they were 100% normal animals. Considering he was at the forefront of the Hypos, one would think by now that he would know the difference. If he doesn't....

 

[Combs69]

Brett, I did talk to jeff about the radiated tort thing, he says he is just doing that for someone else.
Jeff is trying to make it right with animals.
I may go that route or not.
I do hope we can bring this to a close soon. Im sure he wants with every fiber of his being to do the right thing.
He looks to have some really nice torts.


Mike

 

[Martino Reptiles]

Also, how is someone with "no money" to give a refund going to buy 15 top quality Radiated Tortoises? Don't they go for a couple grand each?

http://market.kingsnake.com/detail.php?cat=43&de=506454

Good catch Jon!

 

[MRC31]

Response from Jeff Gee

I have been in email correspondence with Jeff. Not in regards to this matter. I have been asking him questions about one of my favorite herping spots in Arizona. It happens to be down where he lives in the Portal area. I made mention that his "bad guy" post was growing. He obviously read it and asked me if I would post his response. I have never dealt with or met Jeff. He seems like a very nice guy. I am only doing what was asked of me.

Jeff's email to me.
I have never hinted to Mike that I would not do everything I can to stand behind our deal and try to make it right. However no one will be replacing the pair of boas I kept with anything. I have been ripped off by 1 or both Europeans and they are nowhere to be found these days. Of course I want to make it right with my customers, if I had the cash I would refund it. I offered both these guys super nice "keeper" Hypos because they are both BOA COLLECTORS that's what they keep BOAS! and last year & this year we have produced some of our very best 5th generation Hypos. I have also offered some other nice reptiles. I am happy to send over and above the value of the origional deal to try to make up for their time & trouble. I bought 3.3 DBL HET Albino Leopard Boas in good faith from a German that I had done other business with & his trusted friend. I ended up selling 2.2 of those boas to generate funds for other projects.
Once I knew I was scammed I set out to try to settle up with my 2 customers.

Some of the posts on the BOI are fair and accurate, but many are simply untrue, some left out serious facts and there are a few outright lies. I see people jumping on a band wagon, talk of law suits, Lynch mobs, putting someone in a wheelchair, etc. What is with that?

This will be my 2nd reply ( 1st is # 5 ) it will also be my last. I have no interest in being involved in the BOI. Again it's too bad because it could have been a usefull tool if used properly.

reply to post # 8 from xrayeric, who says " they are just hypos" Well Eric, You may or may not know that the Hypo gene has led to " Ghost Boas" " Sun-Glo Boas" " Sun-Set Boas" as well as many others. Is a $7 Ball Python lacking various pigments really worth $50,000 or $70,000? I say yes if there is only 1 in the world at the time, or if those genetics can go on to produce something else. The "market" prices are set by simple supply & demand. A $9,000 Hypo Boa is still a $50 Boa, A $25,000
T+ CA albino boa is still a $50 boa. The prices are set by what the seller will accecpt and the buyer is willing to pay. My first pair of albino Corn Snake babies cost me $2,500 that was a lot of cash in the 70s but to "get in early" there were risks and prices to be paid. Now they are $3 each at a Sunday afternoon reptile swap meet.

reply to post # 18 bigvic, Who knows nothing about the Hypo line if he "has seen amazing looking F1s" big vic, F1 is the first generation of captive bred babies from the wild adults. We had F1 Hypos in 1989 they didn't look too hot, in fact they had reduced black & we kept the best looking babies, once we produced F2s we knew we had something interesting and continued on. We are now at F5 , 5 generations of selective breeding for color & pattern, they really loog nice. bigvic claims that I was unfair in a deal at a show 14 years ago, I would never do that. I have always tried to be very fair and honest with all my customers. It's not a "good deal" unless it's fair for both people involved. Good deals lead to more good deals! bigvic goes on about some lie about a lawsuit for Aldabras & shipping & $25,000 in the 90s. Never happened! Must have me cunfused with someone else in his past memory.
I never shipped any Aldabras to a Calif customer or any other customer that arrived DOA. I was not sued for $25K, never happened. If bigvic knows so much about things legal I suggest he research "slander".

reply to post #20 dberes correctly points out that back in the early 90s we were all still learning the Hypo Genitics. I will add some FACTS at this point. A few "self claimed experts" are miss informed on Hypos. When we first started working with these boas we kept 2.2 normal babies from a "Orange-Tail"
(early name for hypo boas) litter. About 1993 one of the normal pair produced their first litter, 5 normals & 2 Orange Tails! At the time we simply thought these were a recessive pair (hets for hypo). We had up until then been selling all the normals to area pet shops in Tucson & Phoenix for $50 (pet shop boas) After that litter in 93 we sold the normals for I think $100? In the years since I have had a few people tell me it can't happen, I always ask if they even tried? Same answer, no. Well this spring 2007 we bred a pair of totally normal looking siblings we held back from a litter of DBL HET Sun Glows, April 07 they produced 7 normals & 2 dead fully formed normals, about 5 egg slugs and a fully developed but dead very nice Hypo! So this again proves there are some recessive Hypo traits along with the commonly known "co-dominate Hypo trait". My "theory" is along with the Hypos in the same litter there are also some normals that can be hets. To add to this, over the years I have had people call, email & send photos of some very hypo ( and other traits) babies they have produced from breeding "normals" from our Hypo litters. They are what they are.

reply to post #22 kenbad. Ken you failed to post the fact that I did all I could to convince you to let me ship Delta Air. You said you "get lots of snakes in by UPS & you would assume all risks". I reminded you they offer no insurance & we only had UPS service at a supermarket service counter. You insisted in UPS, I took the box the 130 miles , I paid about $30 for "next day air" service, I watched the store clerk put "next day " stickers all over the box, I received a recipt for "next day service" ( which I later mailed to you) yet the box went by ground & arrived dead over a week later. I did tell you I was sorry, mostly because a nice snake was now dead. You then began crying like a baby, I told you then that because I had tried so hard to ship Delta ( I even informed you that the airport is 370 miles trip for me to ship) but you had insisted that you would risk it ( you didn't have a car, Delta is more $, etc?) I said I would absolutly not replace your dead snake. If it was sent as I wanted it would never have arrived dead & Delta has insurance. Ken, you go on in your post to make another crazy statement? you say that I offered to settle up the (non event) of a $25,000 tortoise shippment mentioned in bigvics lie with F5 Hypos. Well if there was such a case ( there was not) but even if so...we produced our first F5 Hypos in 2005! not the mid 90s as you may imply. Why would you make that up? Ken, you also may want to get with bigvic and study "slander". FYI, that was the last snake I shipped UPS (13 years ago).

As I said in my first post. I am happy to talk about anything related or unrelated to this event as long as it stays friendly & factual. I have no interest in visiting the BOI again as long as it is a forum for slander.

I must say that Mike, Who is one of the most polite and remained very close to the actual facts and I are still trying to solve the problem with direct emails. Most of you probably have dry water bowls or cages in need of cleaning. I know I do & my time is better spent taking care of my animals & customers. Not reading this rag. thanks, Jeff

Captive Bred Wildlife Foundation
Jeff & Kim Gee
P.O. Box 16515
Portal, AZ 85632
Phone: (520) 558-2458
Fax: (520) 558-2411
www.cbwf.com

 

[reagorfu]

Brett, I did talk to jeff about the radiated tort thing, he says he is just doing that for someone else.
Jeff is trying to make it right with animals.
I may go that route or not.
I do hope we can bring this to a close soon. Im sure he wants with every fiber of his being to do the right thing.
He looks to have some really nice torts.


Mike

I'm glad that he is going to make it right for you. it is nice to hear that buying 100% hets for something that don't prove out does not always mean that you have been taken. hope that both of you can sort this out soon.

 

[crotalusadamanteus]

Micah, I know you are trying to help Jeff out and all, but...If he has the ability to email you back and forth, he has the ability to come here himself and create an account, and post for himself. It would do a whole lot more for him to speak for himself, and leaves you out of the line of fire should things take a wrong turn.


Rick

 

[Gecko_Den]

Jeff's email to me.

This will be my 2nd reply ( 1st is # 5 ) it will also be my last. I have no interest in being involved in the BOI. Again it's too bad because it could have been a usefull tool if used properly.


As I said in my first post. I am happy to talk about anything related or unrelated to this event as long as it stays friendly & factual. I have no interest in visiting the BOI again as long as it is a forum for slander.

my time is better spent taking care of my animals & customers. Not reading this rag. thanks, Jeff

Captive Bred Wildlife Foundation
Jeff & Kim Gee
P.O. Box 16515
Portal, AZ 85632
Phone: (520) 558-2458
Fax: (520) 558-2411
www.cbwf.com

Funny how the BOI is usually only considered "a rag" , "waste of time", etc.. by the people on the wrong side of a BOI bad guy thread. I guess his next statement will be how much his sales have increased since this bad guy thread was started. And if Jeff is reading this, next time you are throwing the "slander angle" around maybe you should be the one to look up the definition; check libel too while you are at it and see if you can figure out which you really want to use.

 

[Martino Reptiles]

reply to post # 18 bigvic, Who knows nothing about the Hypo line if he "has seen amazing looking F1s" big vic, F1 is the first generation of captive bred babies from the wild adults. We had F1 Hypos in 1989 they didn't look too hot, in fact they had reduced black & we kept the best looking babies, once we produced F2s we knew we had something interesting and continued on. We are now at F5 , 5 generations of selective breeding for color & pattern, they really loog nice. bigvic claims that I was unfair in a deal at a show 14 years ago, I would never do that. I have always tried to be very fair and honest with all my customers. It's not a "good deal" unless it's fair for both people involved. Good deals lead to more good deals! bigvic goes on about some lie about a lawsuit for Aldabras & shipping & $25,000 in the 90s. Never happened! Must have me cunfused with someone else in his past memory. I never shipped any Aldabras to a Calif customer or any other customer that arrived DOA. I was not sued for $25K, never happened. If bigvic knows so much about things legal I suggest he research "slander".

I suggest Jeff research the words INTEGRITY and possibily "HONESTY" if he is felling "giddy" enough. Sadly Jeff's memory isn't as keen as mine, hence why I even mentioned this experience on the BOI. If he doesn't remember, it's not because I have some "hidden agenda" or choose to make a post about a random story, it's because I actually had this happen to me. How convenient for him to forget.....



The word SLANDER means nothing if the truth is told, and lucky for me, my witnesses for the event (my dear friend who was there, and MY FATHER) will testify in my defense. I mentioned nothing but the truth, and if he cannot remember the events which occured, then ultimately it's my word against his. It's amazing how quick people throw up the magic words "LAWSUIT", "SLANDER", "LEGAL", etc. to make all their business practices magically "go away" through unsubstantiated threats.

Anyone remember MG Reptiles on here? I sure do. Threw the same threats out there because of me telling it how it was and how his business practices went down. Lucky for me his track record on the BOI speaks for itself.

I like the comment about me now knowing anything about the "F1 Generation." I suppose now he's going to tell me that I don't own any designer boas and that I never had any snakes.



Regardles of what his definition of an F1, F14, F33 is or whatever the hell he is trying to sell, he failed to follow through with a deal, and in my book tells me everything about this man's character. Hence why a "deal" never went down, hence why i'm not the man's "customer."

Jeff can make up stories and obviously deny whatever he wants. But all I can say, it that I will NEVER do business with him.

- Vic

 

[Laura Fopiano]

Micah, I know you are trying to help Jeff out and all, but...If he has the ability to email you back and forth, he has the ability to come here himself and create an account, and post for himself. It would do a whole lot more for him to speak for himself, and leaves you out of the line of fire should things take a wrong turn.
Rick

That was the first thing that came to my mind as I read that email. If Jeff can read here, he can post here in his own defense, not hide behind another herper. Sorry, that's just the way that i see it.

Another good one is "my lawyer has asked me to refrain from posting" I could swear that I read something very like that in another so called "big breeder" thread on the BOI.....still unresolved to date.

As much as I will agree that some hypo's are better than others, that line breeding can lead to much cleaner, brighter animals I have not seen one yet that I would spend 5000 dollars for.

I also take great issue that the so called elite of another site will not sully their little fingers by posting here. We here at fauna are also elite with in our peer groups. I buy and sell and other sites, I trade and barter on this site and some others, I attend the same reptile shows, share tables next to and share laughs in the bar after the day is over.

And at the end of it all, I smile, I smile big knowing that I did my best, loved every birth that I was blessed enough to witness, shared stories, entertained kids with photo's holding snakes, educating other herpers, and then I go home with my partner, my love and my integrity.

 

[Kenbad1]

Jeff,
You didn't tell me anything about a supermarket shipping counter otherwise I would have said forget it. You didn't tell me it was 130 miles to Package.net which it was called you told me it was 30 miles and that the airport was closer safer and you could insure the package. I told you I could not pick them up at the airport because of shipping problems they recently had that I had to be a known shipper that an the fact that I didn't have a car to get to the airport. I told you I worked for a big reptile dealer and we ship UPS all the time so I was confident my shipment would arive on time and in great condition that's one thing wrong here is another I did state in the post I would take full responsibility if you sent it UPS but you didn't again you sent it throught Package.net (who the hell is package.net) that is not UPS you didn't mail me the receipts you faxed them to me and no where on the receipt did it say Overnight shipping like any UPS recipts would have stated.
Ok the fact that I posted that you were selling F5 hypo hets was missunderstood I meant to say just het hypos I am sorry for that but it still remains that you were selling hypo sibs then as definate het hypos and it was two animals that I ordered not one and when I complained to you over the phone about the shipment you went off like a raving lunatic I guess the small guy doesn't mean squat to you because he isn't about to go through all the trouble of proving you wrong and not many out there even care. Oh I am not sure about the price you charged me for the boas I'm not as young as I used to be so I am taking a guess here $300.00 or was it $500.00 for those boas it was one or the other. I don't like the BOI too much myself but I think people should know about how you twist words around yea I guess you will be saying that about me too after you read this if you read this. As far as anthing else you stated it's just a bunch a crying dribble to me.
Ken,

 

[Kenbad1]

Hey Jeff,

I forgot to mention the box arived with not one next day sticker on it. However it did have a ground sticker on it and the faxed receipt you sent me Via fax said around $13 or $16 dollars I can't remember which but it was one or the other maybe you still have the Original receipt around to prove me wrong? it was so long ago. Another thing is I wasn't stating the 25,000 lawsuit was fact I was stating I heard about it and believe it.

 

[Combs69]

Nothing has been resolved yet. I talked to him @ Daytona, and it looks like im just gonna have to take a loss.
Ive talked to several attorneys, and its really not worth thier time.
I could 100% sure get a judgment, but all that would do is put a bad mark on his credit report for life.
Im beyond words at this point.
I really doubt i will ever see any monies refunded, but time will tell.

Mike

 

[monkeywrench133]

Nothing has been resolved yet. I talked to him @ Daytona, and it looks like im just gonna have to take a loss.
Ive talked to several attorneys, and its really not worth thier time.
I could 100% sure get a judgment, but all that would do is put a bad mark on his credit report for life.
Im beyond words at this point.
I really doubt i will ever see any monies refunded, but time will tell.

Mike

A judgement on your credit is a big deal. It can make things like buying or renting homes or cars almost impossible. I deal with that stuff all day long in the course of leasing properties. Even if you've got an 800+ credit score, that one judgement will disqualify you from renting one of our properties.

And if you did have a judgement, you could potentially sell the debt to a collection agency. You'd only get a fraction of what you were owed, but that collection agency can/will hound him to the end of earth. And then if they don't get their money, they can sell the debt to another agency at the end of their seven year run with it, to start the process all over again. That can go on for the rest of the guy's life. Or until he pays them.

You can also, as was mentioned previously, put liens on his property, but if he never sells it, you don't get your money, and you have to renew the lien every seven years or its voided.

 

[Combs69]

Well one more litter of normals.
They are some pretty babies, but not what I paid 8k for .
I sent him notice and he still refuses to refund my money.
He has offered more snakes, but at this point he doesnt have any snakes that can make up for the loss of initial investment, keeping and feeding plus the potential of the offspring that should have been.
Time spent on these etc.
I would avoid dealing with this guy like the plaugue.
When you sell something as guranteed 100% DH's...you should stand by it!
I must say, anyone considering doing business with CBWF should think twice, be it boas or torts.
Thanks
Mike

 

[Amelanistic Orca]

Wow!!!!!!!!

 

[Martino Reptiles]

Well one more litter of normals.
They are some pretty babies, but not what I paid 8k for .
I sent him notice and he still refuses to refund my money.
He has offered more snakes, but at this point he doesnt have any snakes that can make up for the loss of initial investment, keeping and feeding plus the potential of the offspring that should have been.
Time spent on these etc.
I would avoid dealing with this guy like the plaugue.
When you sell something as guranteed 100% DH's...you should stand by it!
I must say, anyone considering doing business with CBWF should think twice, be it boas or torts.
Thanks
Mike

Wow....

I'm very sorry to hear this Mike, and the message is very clear to those of us in this community regarding this incident. If you are going to Daytona this year, let me know. You are deserving of a dinner with some beers, that's for sure.

- Vic

 

[Combs69]

Thanks

Well thank you kindly !
It hurt, but I know too many good folk in the business to let one Jeff Gee get me down.
I hope to be in Daytona this year...Im not too far from there.

Thanks again.

Mike

 

[Martino Reptiles]

Well thank you kindly !
It hurt, but I know too many good folk in the business to let one Jeff Gee get me down.
I hope to be in Daytona this year...Im not too far from there.

Thanks again.

Mike

Sounds good Mike. All the best.

- Vic