kenneth Yates of South Carolina

[elite]

kevin

what was the temp approx. outside whil you were taking the picture and doing this?

 

[elite]

by the way to everyone.
the BOI i belive was designed for everyone to look at issues like this a come to conclusions and examinations of the facts.
so this thred should not be closed
i am not hiding anything so i am learning alot from this good info

 

[elite]

trying to insert a pic of one of the green mamba before it left me

 

[oreganus]

I am not sure of the exact temps....

It was under 40F outside and about 75-80F indoors, and your point? The temps were similar to your area at the time. I watched the news that night to see what the tempratures were like. So what is the excuse now? Just curious, but I think I feel one more attempt at calling me a liar coming on, if not, I apologize for that statement.
Kevin Smith

 

[ElapsMan]

kevin. temps have very little part in getting rid of rigor mortis. It is an enzyme thing. So again I ask, Is that Ritchie Rich in the pic holding the snakes?

 

[ReticEd]

Page 1, Oreganus.

4 of the greens were extremely cold and dead, the black was also cold and dead(picture attatched).

Here are pictures that I have taken of the dead animals and how they were packed.

there were three of us here when the snakes were unpacked, the pictures were taken right after everything was unpacked and checked.

Page 76, Oreganus.

First, all of the snakes were unpacked and the ones that were alive were put in a warm room to help them recover.

They were all put in rubbermaids seperately and left in the warm room over night incase of a miracle that might occur. Up to this point only 2 out of the 7 greens have survived. The fifth green died later on.

I have pointed out some not so obvious signs in the picture and had to check several times to be sure on this, but I think we all overlooked something about the pic that is quite literally staring us in the face.

4 greens and the black, in O'anus words in his first post - extremely cold and dead.
Why then, if a picture was made of ALL the dead arrivals, are there only THREE green mambas in the picture?

It was stated by O'anus that the fifth green died later, yet we have NOT seen pictures of it nor the fourth dead green mamba.

If all of the animals were unpacked and unbagged hurriedly, to see what was dead or alive, then seperated into rubbermaids and placed in a warm room to recover..
Why do the rubbermaids have what appear to be bagged animals in them?

Page 77, ElapsMan.

kevin. temps have very little part in getting rid of rigor mortis. It is an enzyme thing.

Thank you for knowing this!
Rigor is an enzyme controlled process, of which temperatures in the 40s, wil slow the process down greatly and the snakes would still have been in full rigor for many hours after being unbagged and warmed.
If only the head and neck were stiff from rigor, then it would not have the shape of curvature that is shown. It would be all kinked from being in the bag in transit at the time of its' demise.

Look again at the picture on page 1.
Look again at the black mamba.
You can see that it is not rigored, nor partially rigored as the dead weight of what O'anus calls rigored, would be stiff, YET dangling form the first loose point in the flesh.

A few tell tail signs in the snake itself, the slight bend in its' back, is a slight twitch from coming down from the anesthetics and waking up.
Notice the belly scales, especially in the deep bend of the neck, all the way to the head.
The snake had just began to come out of the drug induced fog and had righted the front portion of its body (as all snakes will do first) yet at the instant the pic was taken, had not yet become completely awake and aware.

I am willing to bet, that if there is a next slide to that picture, it would be of quickly dropped snakes and a wet pair of jeans.

I ask again, Why, if there are four (4) dead green mambas, on arrival, AND after being stated that you took a picture of all the dead animals, is there only THREE (3) green mambas in the picture?

Why have we not seen pictures of the other TWO (2) dead green mambas?

 

[elite]

Re: I am not sure of the exact temps....

It was under 40F outside and about 75-80F indoors, and your point? The temps were similar to your area at the time. I watched the news that night to see what the tempratures were like. So what is the excuse now? Just curious, but I think I feel one more attempt at calling me a liar coming on, if not, I apologize for that statement.
Kevin Smith

just asking. noy going anywhere with it, i was curious. i am not after u, don't be so defensive

 

[oreganus]

Keep reaching Eddie.....

Why act like you are reading everything and being optomistic?? You obviously are convinced that there is some foul play and can't seem to get off of the venomoid thing. Sure, the snakes were gassed, Jimmy Hoffa came over and gassed them for us, which I would very much like to thank Mr. Presley for driving him over to do that for us so we could try and scam Kenneth. Get a life Ed, drop the whole venomoid thng, it had nothing to do with the situation, but that doesn't matter to you because if someone deals in venomoids, they must be shady. I tried my best to answer all the questions that were asked, which is noticed by some, but you for some reason, have your conclusions made up no matter what anyone says.
Kenneth,
Okay, I was just curious why you asked that particular question, which I did answer honestly.
Kevin Smith

 

[oreganus]

Oh yeah...

sorry, I forgot to answer about the other mamba, there was a heartbeat still present, so it was quickly put into a warm room to try and get it to come around. Sorry Ed, don't want you to have to jump to conclusions on that.
thanks
Kevin Smith

 

[oreganus]

Finally.......

I am done with this thread. I am sure there will be 12 more pages of hypothetical venomoid scenarios by Ed on here by the end of the day, but I really feel that the intelligent posts have faded away in this thread and I have decided to do my part to quit wasting anymore forum space on these pointless accusations. I have posted pictures,emails,and done my best to prove myself, so I am finished. Thanks to everyone who posted intelligently and optomisticly.
Bye,
kevin Smith

 

[ReticEd]

Sidestepping the questions seems to be a habit...

Once again -

Why then, if a picture was made of ALL the dead arrivals, are there only THREE green mambas in the picture?

Why do the rubbermaids have what appear to be bagged animals in them?

I ask again, Why, if there are four (4) dead green mambas, on arrival, AND after being stated that you took a picture of all the dead animals, is there only THREE (3) green mambas in the picture?

Why have we not seen pictures of the other TWO (2) dead green mambas?



I am very curious about the 4th and 5th dead green mamba, as I am sure that others, even KY (since you want a refund) are especially since there are five (5) claimed to be dead, yet only three (3) are pictured.

You show three green mambas and make a claim for five with no proof that the other two not shown, are in fact dead.

It would especially be to your favor to show pics of ALL the dead snakes, including close up shots of their heads and open mouths, just to prove that you or noone else DID in fact cause their deaths due to any alterations of the said animals.

 

[ReticEd]

sorry, I forgot to answer about the other mamba, there was a heartbeat still present,

That explains the FIFTH green mamba, yet you stated there were FOUR obviously cold and dead UPON ARRIVAL.

There are only THREE in the picture.

 

[Dragondad]

I dont want to get in the middle of ouiji board session here, but I have ideas.

Maybe the cold and stiff werent really rigor just frozen, since it was stated earlier that body mass has to do with the ability to withstand cold my guess is that the stiffness comes from a temp factor and true rigor hadnt set in.

Now then you open a box with frozen snakes, you realize that there may be a problem you rush to unpack the other boxes(keep in mind here you cant just reach in to each bag) you get the rest of the shipment unpacked and placed in warmth come back clean up the mess a little(I mean you cant save the mambas) take a pic. The snakes being cold and stiff have started to limber because they now have some heat surrounding them.

Oh no I am agreeing with Wes(no I wont have your baby). Now as Wes has stated, and as we all agree Ken Y basically insured the deaths of some of the snakes with the way he packed. Kens ability to tell the truth is in serious doubt, Ken also has been proven to be a rip off artist not only in his short lived reptile business but in any other business he has. I dont know Kevin but all the things that Kevin has stated can be plausable also maybe a little understood for not being clear on items because of the fact you just got ripped off.

When I asked a guestion about rigor I did so not to try to prove Kevin wrong but to gain information. My money here would be on one of two things 1)Ken with his lousy shipping is responsible for the mambas and should pay........ 2) Ken in an effort to try to rip off someone put a different black Mamba in then killed the greens with his lousy shipping(Wait thats basically the same as 1) So in summary Ken is responsible for the repayment of the Mambas and half the shipping.

 

[ReticEd]

Maybe the cold and stiff werent really rigor just frozen,

Mmm.. nope.

The majority of living organisms, mammals and including reptiles bodies are comprised of a high percentage of water (H2O)

The temps for the day(s) of transit has been stated to be in the 40s.
Another mentioned the carrier having heated rooms and heated cargo bays in their planes, just for live animals.

The freezing point of water is 32f.
The freezing point of flesh, is lower than 32f.
I do not see where they could have simply frozen solid during the shipping.

That still doers not tell us why, if four arrived dead, and a fifth died later, why there are only three green mambas in the picture and no other pictures showing that the other two green mambas claimed to be dead have been posted.

If pictures of the fourth and fifth green mambas can clearly show there was no alteration, nor attempt at alteration, then yes, KY does most likely owe O'anus a refund.

IF pictures are shown, of the fourth and fifth green mambas along with close ups of ALL the dead animals heads and open mouths, (which I highly doubt) and show ANY signs of alterations or attempted alterations, then no, the deaths were not due to shipping and KY owes nothing.

 

[Mustangrde1]

This thread is going no place in a hurry perhaps it is time to let it die as many questions asked are never going to get answered. If people wish to continue having a discussion on venomoids just go to an already started thread with good debate.

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=28819&perpage=5&pagenumber=20

Let the BOI serve its purpose for others now as this is pretty much a dead line thread.

Scott Bice

 

[GinoInDaBronx]

avoiding questions

Hey Kevin (not his real name),

I love watching how you selectively answer
the questions put to you. Ed has asked
you one thing repeatedly. Each time,
you have dodged it.

Is the man in the photo Ritchie Rich? I
know it is the jerk-off. Now admit to it!

Sincerely,

Gino 'In Da Bronx' Beniquez

 

[JuliusSqueezer]

Wow...I finally got to page 80 here today after chain smoking a full pack of cowboy killers...This is a mess isn't it. I feel that I can give a totally unbiased opinion on all this because I have absolutly ZERO respect for either party involved and if I were on a jury hearing this case would not accept anything either of them said without some pretty serious proof. As it stands, the burdon of proof is all on the accuser. Sure....it has been well documented that the snakes were poorly packaged for shipping. But we have all seen much worse survive. To actually prove this case, given the knowledge that the receiving party is a dealer in voids and in fact butchers them himself, it is probable that dead snakes are not hard to come by for a photo op. It is also my beleif that anyone who voids hots for any reason does not have a single moral and would lie cheat or steal as easily as not...hence the need for actual proof. Again...Neither of your word seems to be worth anything.

If I were on a jury hearing this case...or if I were a judge...this is what I would demand as proof

Necropsy from a reputable vet showing cause of death and time of death of any alleged dead animals

afterall...maybe they arrived alive and Mr. I don't really like mambas anyway got scared at the wiggly bags and smashed them with a hammer....who knows? Who knows how or even if they died. The photo proves nothing. Your word certainly means nothing.

Then because of the whole black mamba switcharoo thing backed to some degree by the ONLY credible wittness in this case (Mardi Snipes) ...ok...there is no proof either way...but there IS reasonable doubt that all or any of the snakes photographed were the snakes shipped.

What it comes down to...even bad people can be scammed and they still have the same rights as anyone else...but at the same time...even people who are known to screw people sometimes are in the right. It's like the OJ case...He did it. We all know he did it. But somehow it kinda looked like maybe some evidence was planted. So this made it hard to prove he did it. Even if the evidence WAS planted and maybe it was....does this prove he DID NOT do it? certainly not but evidently it left some reasonable doubt and got him off.

so in summery:

Prove the snakes are the snakes that were shipped and not out of your freezer from your failed hack job collection. Prove that they are dead and died when you say they died. And then prove that the cause of death was due to the poor packaging and not something you did once they got to you. None of this can be proven without necropsy...too late for that now though. Personally...I don't think you have a case to collect on right or not because I don't think you have enough proof. but thanks for pointing him out and I have never heard of you but have added you to the list of those who deal in voids so I know never to do any business with either of you guys.

 

[bud mierkey]

perfect greg

I need say no more you said it all

 

[bud mierkey]

I mean brett sorry

 

[ElapsMan]

Kevin,

I put to you a forth time....Is the man pictured Ritchie Rich?