Luis Taracena (herphobbiest) bad deal

[Griz]

Do anyone ever remember the day when a handshake was all we needed? I sure do......

Griz

 

[kmurphy]

Kevin if anyone were to ask Luis about about Rick, I don't think that after this he'll have anything good to say no matter if he gets Zero, One or half the litter.

That's probably true Randy, however, if he doesn't split the babies then statements regarding that aspect will be true.

If it were me, I would like to have a point in time when it was over with, then Luis can say what he wants and it will be seen for the pack of lies it is. I wouldn't want this dragging on for years to come.

Rick went above and beyond on this one. On that there is no question. Why not finish it and move on?

 

[varnyard]

Jim, to quote, judge Judy (Did you get it in writing?) If Richard would have been happy, he would have created a new contract. Or Luis should have requested that a new contract be put into place, to make the update with the changes to the first. But this did not happen. As to the legal standings. The contract would hold more value court than any verbal agreement. That said, I would wish Luis the best of luck in making a case.
One more QUOTE: judge Judy: (You should have got it in writing.)
Now I would agree with you 100% if there was no written contract at all. But that is not the case. The contract stands as proof of the agreement between both parties. The written agreement was binding to both parties, until Luis broke that agreement. So, IMO, I do not see that a judge would award Luis anything for breaking his side of the written agreement. That would just not be a legal binding, after the contract (agreement) was broken by Luis. IMO, Richard would have no problems getting this case thrown out of court, or at least winning his case with flying colors. In court papers mean everything. They override any verbal agreements, it would be he said, she said in the eyes of a judge. The written agreement would still stand as evidence, not the words.

 

[varnyard]

Do anyone ever remember the day when a handshake was all we needed? I sure do......

Griz

Bob, I agree, that was the good old days!! I still believe there are people that can be trusted to do this with.

 

[KelliH]

Rick,

I understand the frustration and anger you are dealing with. However, I strongly feel that if your female boa has any viable babies, half of them belong to Luis. It was his male boa that bred to your female, and it is the right thing to do to give him his share of the offspring. Yes, he did breed a different male to your female than was originally agreed upon, for whatever reason. If that was such a huge problem, then perhaps you should have immediately picked up your snake upon hearing of it. It's always better to take the high road, Rick. Half of that litter (if there is a viable one) belongs to the breeder (Luis in this case). Even if he is not the nicest, most honorable guy, you know it's the right thing to do.

 

[Chameleon Company]

Bobby, we're just going to have to disagree. While I do not know of all the written communications between them, Luis would only need show that for whatever reason, he bred a different male, and that there was an exchange between he and Rick about it. By his own words here, Rick does not have documentation at that revelation that he was claiming a default of the contract, because he was not. What he has acknowledged is (short version) "Luis said he had to make a change. Once informed, I said I was OK with it". It is in writing in this thread, possibly elsewhere, and it is completely admissible in court. The opinions I have forwarded are all in accordance with an opinion my attorney gave me, who also happens to be my brother, and as such I get the opinions for free (to an extent). Yes, a judge may rule entirely against Luis, but it is not to be expected. If he could afford it, and Luis had reason to pursue it, I am told that Luis has a good case by an officer of the court, and that a division of assets is to be expected. By contract, they were joint assets. I am not arguing your right to an opinion about what might happen. I am saying that it is not consistent with the current application of contract law in our courts, not even close. And you spoke to Judge Judy when?

 

[crotalusadamanteus]

Here is the IM conversation Luis and I had concerning this issue. (I knew that I saved it somewhere, just didn't plan it in an orderly fashion). the date was 11-8-05. I will find the one where he said ........"hey, did you see the pictures?" ..... I know it was at a little later date, just dont remember right now.........


albinorick: you there?
herphobbiest: ya
albinorick: What's going on?
albinorick: Messenger sucks for me
albinorick: doesn't like to sign in some times
albinorick: Hey, are there Axanthic boas out there?
Herphobbiest: Hey!!! its you
herphobbiest: lol
herphobbiest: I did not know it was you
herphobbiest: no Axantics... best we got is Anery
albinorick: the pic didn't give it away?
herphobbiest: I just saw the profile
herphobbiest: I was writing an email...
albinorick: yeah, my usual is giving me problems at the moment. I changed settings and was able to come on as my other name
herphobbiest:http://photos.yafro.com/pics3/i/20051107/13/b/9/2/b92efc572d7078bacddc12ad1823f357200511070_full.jpg
herphobbiest: new toy...
herphobbiest:
albinorick: have you got it yet?
herphobbiest: yes
herphobbiest: last tuesday
albinorick: like it?
herphobbiest: it is a load of fun
herphobbiest: Oh yeah
herphobbiest: it is easy on your back
albinorick: probably adjustable ride
herphobbiest: and should keep up with the croch rockets
herphobbiest: well it does not have the clip on handles of the Sports bikes
herphobbiest: but it has acctual handlebars
herphobbiest: so you are sitting up
albinorick: I see
herphobbiest: rather than leaning forard all the time
albinorick: Been ridin a lot?
herphobbiest: yes
herphobbiest: hey...
herphobbiest: I have an update... about Aurora...
herphobbiest: I place the male Salmon Hypo Het Sunglow with her
herphobbiest: and nothing
albinorick: how long?
herphobbiest: so I try to spice things up a bit and place my Albino male as well
herphobbiest: Well the Albino was very interested in breeding
herphobbiest: I remove the Albino... since What we want is sunglows
herphobbiest: but nothing
albinorick: you got a homo male? what albino?
herphobbiest: lol
herphobbiest: I do not know what is going on
albinorick: did you sex the male your self?
herphobbiest: but should we try and make Albinos?
albinorick: from the red coral? maybe, I just don't know yet!
herphobbiest: yes it prove 14 scales deep its a male
herphobbiest: no doubt
herphobbiest: yes the coral
albinorick: 14?
albinorick: that's deep
herphobbiest: I know
herphobbiest: both sides too
albinorick: my BP's are at 8
herphobbiest: I guess that there are some lazy breeders
albinorick: Aurora was at 6 when I did her a couple years ago
herphobbiest: My Albino Coral was trying to hump the male Hypo too
herphobbiest: but it was to show dominance only
herphobbiest: they are not quird... LOL
albinorick: Yeah my BP's did that too when I put them together for a day
albinorick: So when did you add the male?
albinorick: I meant to say, about that pic you sent last time. She looks really fat in her lower section.
you think it's pre obvulatory swell?
albinorick: When she gained before, she did not swell down below below
albinorick: just all over
herphobbiest: nov 3-4
herphobbiest: brb
herphobbiest: right
herphobbiest: that is why I ad the male
herphobbiest: it was not a huge swell
albinorick: I hope he does something. I guess the coral would do, But I really wanted a sunglow bad. That's what we agreed
herphobbiest: but I could defenetely notice there was something there
herphobbiest: and it was not food
herphobbiest: me too
herphobbiest: I have had this male since 2002
herphobbiest: I should have had Sunglows last year
albinorick: he hasn't produced yet??
herphobbiest: nope
albinorick: has he even ever tried? what about the sunglows?
herphobbiest: I do not know as my friend brian was the one trying to breed him
herphobbiest: but I got no babies
herphobbiest: I figure one more year and he would mature for sure
herphobbiest: I hope I did not just pay a lot of money for a pretty snake
herphobbiest: I am somewhat disappointed
herphobbiest: I want to sell his ass now...
albinorick: yeah, that would suck
herphobbiest: lol
herphobbiest: There is a guy offering me an Albino Retic
herphobbiest: 12 ft female
herphobbiest: a purple phase female
herphobbiest: But I do not know if I want to mess with retics
herphobbiest: anymore
herphobbiest: Hey Rick fammily is having dinner
albinorick: Hey, I like this font affect, its colorful
herphobbiest: looks nice now just make letters bold so you can see it better
herphobbiest: hey they are calling me....
herphobbiest: Got to go
herphobbiest: keep in touch
albinorick: see ya soon.


Rick

 

[crotalusadamanteus]

Rick,

I understand the frustration and anger you are dealing with. However, I strongly feel that if your female boa has any viable babies, half of them belong to Luis. It was his male boa that bred to your female, and it is the right thing to do to give him his share of the offspring. Yes, he did breed a different male to your female than was originally agreed upon, for whatever reason. If that was such a huge problem, then perhaps you should have immediately picked up your snake upon hearing of it. It's always better to take the high road, Rick. Half of that litter (if there is a viable one) belongs to the breeder (Luis in this case). Even if he is not the nicest, most honorable guy, you know it's the right thing to do.

This I am well aware of, and have made an effort to ignore his constant insinuations. But I can only be pushed so far befpre i start to fight back. I told him in front of the officer, I told the officer at the truck stop, I told everyone here, and I even told Luis as I was leaving I would call and let him know when they come. I fully intended to give his half of the litter. I keep My word. But if he wants to keep insinuating things, and taking jabs at My honesty and integrity by constantly saying crap like..........

Richard on the other hand. He waited and waited. He Waited until he figure he could come to my house and get his female full of babies. He needed an Excuse to do it, and my deal with Matt did it!

Honestly, I do not expect to hear anything from him ever again. I gave his snake a few Rats and had it here in my house for about 10 months. Big deal!!!

He took me with a half a litter of Albinos. Oh, Well... At least my Coral Albino had fun sXXXXg Aurora. hahhaahaaa.

I think it's funny How Richard thinks of me that I do this only for the money... When He said he already has sold his unborn babies. LOL

I am not Bitter... Live and learn.

Those are words of war where I come from. Am I just supposed to let the little....(almost Rich ) ...Him get away with this? You can read the IM, I did not actually agree. I COULD screw him legal like, and it would just be a lesson learned for Him. If you play with fire your gonna get burned eventually.

But as I said more than once. I do feel a moral obligation to give him half. This is regardless of whether people agree or disagree. And i have tried to just concentrate on getting Aurora better, and see how it goes, but He cant keep his big mouth shut!! He just wants to push and taunt, and now I feel like teaching a lesson. If he would just shut up, I would probably have a chance to calm down and of course I would do the right thing. As many here know that I would.

That being said, Perhaps Luis should concider the options laid before him. He is after all the one pushing the buttons.

Rick

 

[Neil Gubitz]

Rick.... I've got a MUCH better idea.... If Luis says one more unwanted word to you.... give ME half the litter.... that will show him!!.... please??.... lol

Neil

 

[Chameleon Company]

Neil, I like your logic !! LOL !!!

Rick, there's not a participant here who puts any credence in Luis' questioing of your integrity. I know it can boil your blood when he does it, but no one is listening to him. Both of you have been judged by your words and actions to this point, and as they say "you are way ahead on the scorecards". I think that your nature is to take the high road, at least once you've had a chance to cool off, just like the rest of us. BOI threads have a way of going well beyond their usefulness, and at times I wish the Mods would adopt a policy of looking at a thread and making the arbitrary decision to lock it down sooner. I understand their hands-off attitude, but in other venues, the idea of "time limits" to present your case is not new. As always, the biggest concern is that the snakes all recover. Most of the banter today was just looking at the legalities involved in what is very likely just a hypothetical possibility. Not a word in this thread dinged your integrity in the eyes of the beholders, and I believe you can sleep on that.

 

[Greg Riso]

A Deal's a Deal

Regardless of what Luis has said to Rick to piss him off they had a formal agreement to do a breeder loan. I realize the male was changed from a dh sunglow to an albino but it is apparent from the chat dialogue that Rick did not adamantly object to the idea of using another male or scrap the project altogether. If Matt had not brought this thread here I believe Rick would have simply left Aurora at Luis home until the litter dropped. The babies would have been split 50/50 and so on.
I was one of the first to say that Rick should get his female back but I don't condone his holding back all of the babies. Whether Luis was going to pull a fast one or do whatever, we'll never know. The bottom line is they still had a deal and in my mind Rick is now going to pull a Luis move lol.
BTW, I got my answer about the time frame concerning when Rick was told Luis was planning on getting rid of the dh sunglow. In the chat conversation the guy who wanted to trade a 12' purple phase retic for it was me.
When Luis suggested he wanted to get rid of the dh sunglow Rick didn't freak out. He did say he was disappointed because there would be no sunglows but that's about it. Obviously the deal was still on then.

 

[crotalusadamanteus]

Greg, I did not freak out out, and I did not adamantly protest. You are correct in that. In fact, I believe all along I have said, that though I did not agree, I accepted it as too late, and rolled with it. Or words to that affect.

How about a new time line? Something stunk about this, and I couldn't pin point it until I just happened to notice the dates, and put them together now that I have been back reading these IM's. It seems He was not even being truthful in the IM's to Me either. That one above was saved on 11-08-06. Luis said He put the coral in to try and spice things up, and pulled him out again because we wanted sunglows, which is what we agreed to in the contract, and on the phone, and in email/IM conversations.

Now look at the dates involved in His thread where He tried to make Me look bad........................

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=77777

Which happens to agree for the most part with the date he posted these to his Yafro account.................

http://snakemaster.yafro.com/photos/2005/11/5

How can He later on, give Me a breeding start date of 11-06 (and I'll find that one too BTW), when the pics were posted to His Yafro on 11-05, and in the IM on 11-08 state that he put the coral in, but pulled him right back out?
Starting to look to Me like He mentioned the coral on 11-08 AFTER the coral already started the deed.
There is a lot more to this than I can say right now, due to the fact that in between emails and IM conversations, We also had phone conversations. So I may very well have some of the facts in My mind a little bit out of order, but by him posting the dates on the other thread, it just sorta clicked, that He did this without Me knowing of it, and suggested that we were still going for the sunglows.

You guys figure it out. The dates are there for all to see.
I do not feel the need to justify Myself over this. I have tried to comply, and had every intention of still giving Him his half of the litter. No question about it IMHO. I keep My word. And would likely still give Him half if He would just quit trying to take jabs at Me. I am not very good at tucking My tail and running away from people who are trying to cause Me harm.

But apparantly, He was going to breed to the coral to Aurora regardless, because By his own time lines, it was already a done deed judging by the pictures that He Himself posted and dated in the other thread.

IMHO this is a blatant violation of what we agreed to. He already had them breeding when the above conversation took place. The dates say it all. And now that I am aware of this, I will start looking even closer at what I have saved.

Rick

 

[Greg Riso]

Something's Better Than Nothing

Rick, I don't doubt Luis threw in the albino (coral or "normal") before getting your official yeah or neh about doing so which was wrong on his part. In reality though, did you have another male animal available that you could have put with Aurora in November? I've had viable females sit the season out because of a nonperforming male and would rather have something than nothing.
I doubt if anyone here is going to fault you for keeping all of the babies, myself included. It's just not something I'd do. Maybe a split of 75/25 would be a compromise since, after all, you'd have no babies had it not been for Luis albino. There is a remote possibility the dh sunglow courted her without Luis ever having witnessed any copulation. I know I've had females go I never saw any activity with (things that go bump in the night lol). If you produce sunglows then what? Hopefully, Aurora will produce a nice healthy litter soon. I wish you good luck!

 

[crotalusadamanteus]

OK, I am done talking about this anyway. I have way too much other stuff on My mind. I have already made it clear that the ball is really in Luis's court.

Luis, if you are reading, all I can say is leave it alone. I don't like being called a thief. You have done so more than once since this started. You can plainly see the affect it is having in My reaction, and what seems to be a general agreement. I will let this rest, and I suggest you do the same where You and I are concerned. I don't really give a damn if you BELIEVE I am trying to gank you. The FACT is, I told you you would get half, and I meant it. Just let it be and You will find this out for yourself when the time comes. IF, there is a viable litter (as Kelli pointed out), than half are yours. I have said this repetedly, and you still call Me a thief. I will not stand for it as you can plainly see. Now just relax about it, and let Me concentrate on what I need to be concentrating on at the moment. (And believe Me, it is not this crap).

You think you can do that? I hope so, cuz like I said, I am done talking about it. It is all up to you now. I will take any further derogatory statements about Me or My character, as You saying You do not want your half. Fair enough?

Does that seem fair enough to the Board?

Rick

 

[Tsutton5]

agreed

It seems that all agree with you Rick. I would like to know how much longer the necroscopy is gonna take?

 

[mdc]

Luis,

Any news yet on the necropsy? Your post below said 7-10 days from March 30.

Matt Crabe



HerpHobbiest
Contributing Member



Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Arizona City, Arizona
Age: 28
Posts: 56
Name : Luis Taracena
Karma Power: 0

Trader Rating: (-1)


Warning Level: 4 Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis Hultman
There needs to be something about a reasonable timeframe added here.



7-10 days from March 30th.

Unless further test are requided for which I will get everything in paper and post it here. I doubt that would be the case.

Regards,
__________________
Luis Taracena - 520 466 9836
E-Mail - Herp Hobbiest Pictures

 

[HerpHobbiest]

Luis,

Any news yet on the necropsy? Your post below said 7-10 days from March 30.

Matt Crabe

Matt,

I spoke with the Pathologist, Dr. Johnson on Friday. in Refards of ID the male Albino for you.

She said for you to e-mail her a few pictures and that she would id the Snake.

You can contact her at [email protected]

Email Subject: "Attn: Dr. Johnson - Re: Specimen # 06-2003."

IMPORTANT: Tell her that you are Matt Crabe.

You can also contact her by phone at 1 (520) 621 2356 Extension 35 for the operator and just ask for Dr Johnson.

I also ask for any updates on the Necropsy and Dr. Johnson said that the snake had a severe case of Salmonela... Now, that is NOT the official result of the Necropsy. She said that there was a few more test to do.

As soon as I get paperwork from the University of Arizona I will post it here.

Regards,

 

[Junkyard]

Salmonella? In a snake?

 

[esoteric-lizard]

Salmonella? In a snake?

it could have got that from eating any kind of poultry. i have fed chicken to one of my snakes a long time ago... about 6 months after that in my microbiology class i did a biological analysis of her stool... one of the sensitivity tests came up positive for salmonilla... no big deal.

 

[crotalusadamanteus]

Actually Salmonella is a natural occuring part of a reptiles digestive tract, (if i recolect). They don't need to eat any poultry at all. Lizards Too.
Now how it managed to get "severe" seems kinda odd to Me.

http://aem.asm.org/cgi/content/full/70/1/613
http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5249a3.htm


Rick