Mike Shoemaker, Rebel Dragons -- Great Guy!!

[Jim O]

Mike, I once again urge you not to respond. Certain persons only have an interest in destroying someone for their own pleasure and status among like-minded persons.

Sociopaths are persons that have no human feelings for other humans. A recent psychology study determined that sociopaths make the most successful lawyers and CEO's. So, keep in mind that these may be the kind of people you will be feeding. You owe them nothing whatsoever.

Bruce,

Despite your attempt to make diagnoses that you are not really qualified to make, there is a point here. Many of us have befriended Mike over the last six plus months, including myself, lending moral support and even buying from him (over others) at a time that he really needed to make some sales. As his friend, I am really aghast at what has happenned and at these accusations. I have nothing but the highest in respect for Dennis Hultman. As I said, he has no dog in the fight but has gone out on a limb to corroborate the accusation. If Mike does not answer he is guilty by overwhelming preponderance of evidence. As his friend I implore him to explain himself. A serious accusation has been made. If you, Bruce, feel that accusations made on the BOI are not worthwhile, perhaps it is you, Bruce, who should not be posting here. All you are doing is delegitimizing and disrupting the process.

Interesting that you still have Bill Leverton as a "Good Guy". What's that about? He is an admitted thief. Now you can answer that any way you like, or not at all. I only bring it up because you worship a twice convicted reptile smuggler and until recently had a note in your signature line demanding freedom for another admitted reptile smuggler. Your priorities and sense of "right and wrong" are the ones that I'd question, my friend.

 

[Dennis Hultman]

Mike, I once again urge you not to respond. Certain persons only have an interest in destroying someone for their own pleasure and status among like-minded persons.

Sociopaths are persons that have no human feelings for other humans. A recent psychology study determined that sociopaths make the most successful lawyers and CEO's. So, keep in mind that these may be the kind of people you will be feeding. You owe them nothing whatsoever.

You would make a good defense attorney.

You are forgetting Tere was the one having her business destroyed by "a" coward posting under an alias. I guess someone is lacking feelings for this human being.
I agree someone's brain is wired just a little differently here.

 

[bud mierkey]

post The ip data

Please stop the drama! post the IP data!
I still see no evidence?
Less drama more evidence.
Have the internet police been notified?
I hope its credible!

 

[Bill_Leverton]

From what I have read this is all a He/She said thing so far no real proof has even been presented as of yet. I too have talked to Mike and Ive heard his version of all of this, and I have read Tere/Pauls version and this is one of those with any documented writings this is going to go no where I'm not by any means taking sides in this But I have heard this story(2 weeks ) before it hit the BOI. Jim you did bring up a good point about people who still voted me a good guy, I often wonder why my GGC is still there But that is for another time

 

[critical bill]

You owe them nothing whatsoever.

I agree with you somewhat Bruce...I'm certainly not owed anything. I never asked for anything from Mike accept his forgiveness for giving him a hard time.

I didn't want to hear him refer to black people as the "N" word. Mike seemed very upset that black kids were a bad influence on his brothers and sisters. I didn't want to hear him tell me he killed baby dragons by freezing them to death because they were starving and he had no money. I didn't want to hear he and his siblings were eating dog food because they were starving to death. NO. I didn't want to hear those things at all. It bothered me a good deal. I'm a human being for chrissake. I didn't know whether to be upset with him for killing animals needlessly or send him a check so he could get some groceries in the house. I was torn. The best I decided was to let him get his act together with his new move to AZ and offer what support I could for him. I placed an order for some house geckos just so he could feel like he wasn't accepting any hand outs and earning his money like a man. I didn't want to rob him of his pride. I offered him double the price we agreed to! He said $1 a piece, and I agreed to pay what I pay any other supplier...$2. I tried to help him help himself. What a real bad guy I am...huh Bruce? I'd do the same for you in a heart beat.

All fooling around aside Bruce....you're following the wrong path on this one.

 

[Matt Haines]

At this point,
I am withdrawing my positive Good Guy Certification for Mike for an earlier deal.

Dennis Hultman, MatthewM, Rebel Dragons, Saladragon, PaulSage, Dennis1, Bar None Reptiles, Jim O, Dachiu, Clearwater_Reptiles, brucestephenson

Where did you get this list? I (Matt Haines) have a good guy vote for Mike but "Bar None Reptiles does not. I am not the whole of that company and therefore the vote is purely my own opinion and not that of Bar None Reptiles. This is the list I got for the good guy vote:
Corns4evr, Dachiu, dragonflyreptiles, Jim O, jmartin104, Living Art Reptiles, Manhattan Herps, Matt Haines, progeckos, South Dixie Dragons, TheHypoGecko.

Just clearing that up as I don't want my girlfriend's company to suffer for my opinion in case this goes sour. However, with that being said my vote shall remain until someone proves to me without a doubt of these accusations validity.

 

[critical bill]

with that being said my vote shall remain until someone proves to me without a doubt of these accusations validity.

Unfortunately, Matt, I cannot prove a thing. I have no need to lie and waste anyones time. I have nothing to loose or gain. I don't sell dragons or breed them, and I have never done business with either Paul or Tere. I only added to the thread to confirm for the others that this didn't seem to be an isolated incident. A pattern of behavior became apparent to me. Good people were victimized and it began with a phone call.....much like the very phone call I received.

 

[Dennis Hultman]

Matt,
I apologize.

To clarify that list. It was at the bottom of my post as people viewing the thread at the time I posted.

I was pointing out that Rebel Dragons was viewing thread at that time and refused to answer the question put to him.

It was suppose to be in a quote but I hit summit to fast. In no way did it mean anything else.

 

[Matt Haines]

I understand completely. I just don't want the business that she owns ill affected by a situation when she has never had any correspondance with the accused.

Chuck, I have my doubts as well and I am just waiting for his response to all of this before I make my final decision. I thought this to be an isolated situation. However, with the new information coming to the forefront I don't exactly know which direction to point to at the moment. I am crossing my fingers in hopes that my trust was not betrayed.

 

[Dennis Hultman]

Originally Posted by Rebel Dragons
I have not been contacted by reptibid in any way shape or form. Why? Because I did not bid on any of your auctions.

This is the only point, I will take issue with.

I have no axes to grind with anyone on this thread. I have never had a problem with Mike.
Mike you know that. I have enjoyed your posts and respected great many of them.

I am going to add the factual information that I already have.

With that, I am only going to make a brief statement and let one of the parties involved decide what he would like to do.

The facts are

I was asked to help in finding out whom the person was that used the User Name “bigmanjulio” on another site.

I was able to obtain that IP address for that particular User “bigmanjulio”. I did this without knowing or mentioning any of the other information that has been posted here.

This is very important, Mike’s name was never brought up in order to obtain this information.

I was given the details that it was suspected that a member of Fauna had done this and I was told they believed it was Mike Shoemaker.

I used the IP address I obtained for “bigmanjulio” to find out if anyone on Fauna was using the same.

I was able to obtain the knowledge that only one person has posted on Fauna using that IP address.

It so happens this IP address also belongs to the person that is suspected here. He first used that IP here on Fauna, on the fifth of October of this year.

His previous posts on Fauna had a different IP address up until 09/16.

He then took a sabbatical from posting on Fauna. During the time he was gone the fake user posted the phony feedback on the other site. When he returned his IP address matched that of that Bogus User.

Coincidence? Not likely.

I would hope that this little tidbit of information is enough for one of the parties involved to make this a short thread.

Bottom to Top- Response I received from Fauna

Feel free to post them.

Can I post our PM's on the BOI?

You can share the info.

Thank you very much Dennis.
The person whose auction and Feedback that was attacked was Tere and John Salazar
User Name = Saladragon

Can I share this information with her?

The IP does match Rebel Dragons. No one else has used that IP on Fauna. However, the first post of his I can find with that IP is on 10/05. The post prior to that one was on 09/16 and was a different IP.

Would it be to big of a coincidence if the person who is suspected just happens to be using the same IP address as the confirmed Alias of the Bad Guy?

If it helps, Rebel Dragons is the person suspected.

The IP of that Bad Guy post was 24.115.15.203 so if he made a post with the same IP would that be pretty clear that it is the same person.

Punch in the IP at this link. It will tell you what ISP it belongs to.

http://ws.arin.net/whois

That IP does match a member here. It is associated with a post that person made today. But keep in mind, depending on how old the auction was, it could very well be a coincidence as most IP addresses are dynamic. If you give me a date I can see if that person had that particular IP here on that date.

Hi Dennis,

A member of Fauna sent me a P.M. about a problem they are having over at another site.

Partial quoted PM from Saladragon sent to me and forwarded to Dthomas with permission.

I had an auction a few weeks back that was won by a non-existent person living at a non-existent address (all according to the Post Office and phone books for that area). I emailed the person twice to no avail, and ended up selling the same dragons to someone else. The nonexistent person left me negative feedback, and I left them negative feedback.
I have emailed all the information I had to the Webmaster several times, and have never received a response
Long story short...I have EVERY reason to believe that the nonexistent person is actually someone here on Fauna.

I left out the person they were accusing here on Fauna. To make a long story short, I was able to obtain the IP of the fake person posting on their auction on the other site. I have no idea how to trace it. The IP is 24.115.15.203. Is there anyway you could help?

 

[Serpwidgets]

Here is the WhoIs lookup on that IP:
OrgName: PenTeleData Inc. - Cable
OrgID: PENC
Address: 540 Delaware Ave.
City: Palmerton
StateProv: PA
PostalCode: 18071
Country: US
(This would be the info for a cable provider that owns the number.)

That IP Address was used by Rebel Dragons on Fauna, on 10/5/2005.

Also,

It is associated with a post that person made today.

What day was that day?

On what date was the IP address 24.115.15.203 used on reptibid by the fraudulent buyer?

 

[Dennis Hultman]

I was able to obtain the knowledge that only one person has posted on Fauna using that IP address.

It so happens this IP address also belongs to the person that is suspected here. He first used that IP here on Fauna, on the fifth of October of this year.

His previous posts on Fauna had a different IP address up until 09/16.

He then took a sabbatical from posting on Fauna. During the time he was gone the fake user posted the phony feedback on the other site. When he returned his IP address matched that of that Bogus User.
Coincidence? Not likely.

It is a two day difference from the auction and his return to posting on this forum.

 

[DThomas]

One thing to add. His posts to this thread are also from that IP.

 

[Serpwidgets]

Well that pretty much sums it up. You couldn't ask for a more obvious smoking gun. I don't think there's any point in trying to deny it.

 

[critical bill]

So it wasnt Jack Nicholson who ordered the code red...it was Mike Shoemaker? I knew it...I just knew it.

 

[Chris@TSE]

Wow......... I'm floored. How unfortunate, and to think I had thought he was a swell guy. Boy, was I wrong it appears.....

 

[Otter_23]

Sociopaths are persons that have no human feelings for other humans. A recent psychology study determined that sociopaths make the most successful lawyers and CEO's. So, keep in mind that these may be the kind of people you will be feeding. You owe them nothing whatsoever.

Very well put. In fact to continue to lie to so many people and cause problems for those trying to help you would in my opinion constitute as a sociopath. Oh wait were you saying Mike the sociopath? Having some experience in the mental health field and with people of this nature I would stay far away. For someone to methodically manipulate people in this manner and use excuses of that nature are in my opinion wrong and make for a very dangerous individual. Dangerous in the sense they don't care how their actions effect you as long as they can get what ever they want achieved. You can say I am jumping the gun without proof etc..., but this is the lowest of low and shows a person who will use any means to achieve their goals. This is someone I would never be able to afford giving a second chance too. I have no sympathy or remorse for what is surely waiting for him around the corner. He needs to be out of the business for good.
Mark Westberg

 

[Otter_23]

How awful when you can't even trust those deemed as good guys anymore.

 

[bud mierkey]

clear up a few things

ok we know the ip that was looked up was his.

but I have not seen any proof where the said ip came from.
it is said it was the offending ip but should we take somebodys word?
what i am getting at is that you could have got his ip anywhere and constructed this elaborate conviction.

also if you can prove where the ip came from and it all is true has he broken any laws?
or has he just gotten someone mad which is not a broken law as far as i know?

This said infraction did not happen here so what is the point of this a lot of the said good guys are bad guys and some bad guys good guys ect...

I see no real scam but a possible liar which could include many.

so you must include documents proving where the offenging ip was found.
sorry nobodys word is going to convict anyone except gods.

 

[Wilomn]

ok we know the ip that was looked up was his.

but I have not seen any proof where the said ip came from.
it is said it was the offending ip but should we take somebodys word?
what i am getting at is that you could have got his ip anywhere and constructed this elaborate conviction.

also if you can prove where the ip came from and it all is true has he broken any laws?
or has he just gotten someone mad which is not a broken law as far as i know?

This said infraction did not happen here so what is the point of this a lot of the said good guys are bad guys and some bad guys good guys ect...

I see no real scam but a possible liar which could include many.

so you must include documents proving where the offenging ip was found.
sorry nobodys word is going to convict anyone except gods.

merky, as a PILLAR of the HONEST community your input here is MOST welcome.

Afterall, some of us who are KNOWN to be good guys, unlike yourself who is known for the EXACT opposite, will now have one more reason to NOT believe what mike eventually says.

You see merky, a lot can be found out about a person by those who not only defend them and their actions but those who do not. It can be VERY telling as to personal character and personal honor. Have you, merky, figured what EITHER of those are yet? I ask only because I have NEVER seen any evidence of either coming from you.

There have been a couple of people who immediately came on saying things just like merky just did. In fact I believe the other is also a PILLAR of the Honest Community, one bruce stephenson. Oops, my mistake, he, like you merky, is also NOT respected and from all appearances is also a stranger to personal honor and honesty.

It looks REALLY bad for mike but the likes of his supporters are actually adding weight to the cement shoes he's already wearing. Whether he sinks or manages to tread water should be up to him, NOT the bottom of the barrel, so to speak so perhaps you two should just leave well enough alone until mike has had his say.

He said he'd be on today. Let's see what he has to say.

If he's honest and sincere now then he'll have a place to start over.

If he's not then he'll be caught up in a big swirly whoosh and away he'll go, down the crapper to the land murk and cowardice, lies and deciet, ego and just plain disgusting people.