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Bad Guy SCAMMER!!! Jay Mcnight / Jason Ciconne/ Franklin Chams Chams/SCAMMER

And also tell me why we now have to wait until Monday.
Maybe they need to wait until the vet's office opens on Monday so they can get the correct stationery to create their own report?
At this point, if they produce a document saying MBD, to me, it is suspect. If they had it, it would have been produced by now.
And since ordinarily a vet's office will not disclose actual records or even whether the critters were seen without written permission from their client, manufactured evidence can be a way to sway public opinion.
 
One thing I missed and I have no clue how I did. In the initial phone the day he received them he said he was a herpotologist and his roommate is a vet.

Actually you didn't miss it - it's been posted; though it looked a little different before....he said his partner is a vet, and he is a biologist. Biologist is not the same as herpetologist; and partner is not necessarily the same as roommate. Could it make the "vet report" suspect? Absolutely...but, it doesn't automatically mean it should be dismissed, either.
 
Or they could have been talking about the vet report, which they made it seem like they already had it, and rushing the chams to the vet tomorrow to get the report they need. Doesn't necessarily make it suspect. Especially if it's a real vets office unlike the Parrots one from another case where they're just a bird seller. Lucille I believe saying that could possibly open a door for sellers to send sick animals then claim the report is fake because they don't want to admit they sent sick animals. If it's a legit vets office we can't just assume its fake because they said they would post it 2 days ago

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Lucille I believe saying that could possibly open a door for sellers to send sick animals then claim the report is fake because they don't want to admit they sent sick animals. If it's a legit vets office we can't just assume its fake because they said they would post it 2 days ago
An honest seller would simply fax in the written permission to the vet, so suspecting documentation is a valid thought, when like in the present case it was promised but not posted.
 
An honest seller would simply fax in the written permission to the vet, so suspecting documentation is a valid thought, when like in the present case it was promised but not posted.
Yes an honest seller would, but we've all seen how some are not so honest. But again if it's a legit vet, we can't just assume. They could have also been saying they'd post the report and waiting on an appointment? I had to wait a week to get my one snake in when she was given to me with a messed up nose. It took a couple days for me to get in with Tyson the retic I rescued even though he had a horrific injury to his mouth from previous owners.

But then again, they should have said this, (were waiting on an appointment will post the paper work when we get them in) instead of insinuating they already had it. And none of our questions to them are being answered, are they BOTH banned?

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Yes an honest seller would, but we've all seen how some are not so honest. But again if it's a legit vet, we can't just assume. They could have also been saying they'd post the report and waiting on an appointment? I had to wait a week to get my one snake in when she was given to me with a messed up nose. It took a couple days for me to get in with Tyson the retic I rescued even though he had a horrific injury to his mouth from previous owners.

But then again, they should have said this, (were waiting on an appointment will post the paper work when we get them in) instead of insinuating they already had it. And none of our questions to them are being answered, are they BOTH banned?

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Elexis, you are not making a clear point and seem to be arguing with yourself.
MY point is that calling out a party who has promised documentation but not ponied up, can make the documentation seem suspect. It is rebuttable, but it is always good to make sure proof is genuine.
 
I'm not arguing with myself, I thought it was pretty clear. Just because it was promised and not immediately posted does not make it suspect, however, why didn't they just say they didn't get them in yet? That would have made them look at least a little better about not having posted it. This took place in june or July right? They should have had the animals to the vet LONG before now and could be rushing them in to get a report they promised. But if that's the case, how do we know they didn't LET them grt mbd just for the vet report? If they are really scamming and trying to keep $950 then with the vet report dated Monday or Tuesday being that it's 2 months later I would say THAT would be suspect but not the actual validity of the report itself

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Brandi. I here ya loud and clear. And you make some really good points in your post. This whole situation has be very flustered. I am handling this the best way I can.

I don't doubt that you're flustered with the whole thing. But only you control you. All I'm suggesting is that you don't respond when you're so flustered. It makes things seem like you're explosive as well.

Flip the table and put you in my shoes. Just imagine this exact thing is happening to you. I promise you will be flustered too and you might handle yourself a little differently than you think you would.

No, actually I wouldn't. For one simple reason. I walk away and don't say anything until I have a better grip on my emotions/thoughts. We sell on ebay all the time and have people that try to pull crap on us, we just have to control ourselves and get it resolved the best that we can.

Have you ever been in a bad relationship where all your friends are saying just leave him. But you just can't because of whatever. Then you see one of your friends in the same situation and you say the same thing to her. It's easy for an outside party to say settle down but when your in the hot seat things are a bit different.

You cannot liken a business transaction to a relationship. But to answer your question; yes. Been there; done that on both accounts. It's something I've been through with relationships many a time. As I said though, you cannot liken business transactions to relationships. Emotions play different parts in different situations, and you cannot tell me that you were "in love" with the animals or Jay to make this into such a mind altering situation. There are/were emotions involved but they are not on a chemical level. I am not arguing with you, just giving different perspectives.

I am doing my best I promise you. So to all my customers and potential customers I hope this doesn't effect new business. I am a man of my word. If nothing else comes from this atleast you guys know I stand 10 foot tall behind what I sell. If there is a problem I always fix it. No matter if even the customer is at fault in my eyes. Doesn't matter. If you buy from me it's a no loose type of situation. Is say 95% of my sales are perfect and if I screw up I'll always always fix it. And I'll admit my fault and oppologize. I even opologize if it's not my fault.

This is great to hear. Just take heed in how you're portraying yourself to potential customers and you'll do fine.
 
I'm not arguing with myself, I thought it was pretty clear. Just because it was promised and not immediately posted does not make it suspect, however, why didn't they just say they didn't get them in yet? That would have made them look at least a little better about not having posted it. This took place in june or July right? They should have had the animals to the vet LONG before now and could be rushing them in to get a report they promised. But if that's the case, how do we know they didn't LET them grt mbd just for the vet report? If they are really scamming and trying to keep $950 then with the vet report dated Monday or Tuesday being that it's 2 months later I would say THAT would be suspect but not the actual validity of the report itself

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I shipped them out the first week of July.
 
I don't doubt that you're flustered with the whole thing. But only you control you. All I'm suggesting is that you don't respond when you're so flustered. It makes things seem like you're explosive as well.



No, actually I wouldn't. For one simple reason. I walk away and don't say anything until I have a better grip on my emotions/thoughts. We sell on ebay all the time and have people that try to pull crap on us, we just have to control ourselves and get it resolved the best that we can.



You cannot liken a business transaction to a relationship. But to answer your question; yes. Been there; done that on both accounts. It's something I've been through with relationships many a time. As I said though, you cannot liken business transactions to relationships. Emotions play different parts in different situations, and you cannot tell me that you were "in love" with the animals or Jay to make this into such a mind altering situation. There are/were emotions involved but they are not on a chemical level. I am not arguing with you, just giving different perspectives.



This is great to hear. Just take heed in how you're portraying yourself to potential customers and you'll do fine.

I certainly understand what your saying. It does make perfect since. And I'm not offended by the initial post because I understand what your saying 100%.
$950 is a lot of money to be stolen from me. I 100% fully support my family on my own. My wife just recently went back to college and I have a lot on my plate. But I can handle the load. I'm not complaining 1 bit about that. But when someone steals $950 from me it kinda throws a huge monkey wrench into everything. Like always I'm doing fine and even now I'm ok and everything has a way of working itself out but I feel like Jay is stealing food out of my children's mouths and shoveling it into his own mouth.
Am I a bit emotional about this and is it showing? God yes!! But overall I'm handling myself pretty good I think.
 
While we're on the subject of a vet. report's credibility, I thought I'd post Jay's take on the subject:
lucile the vet is not a designer i am and i assure you her opinion on how the magnet got in the cage will favor vincent cause he just spent however much supposed unneeded money with her.
Pretty convenient that he'd let the simple act of paying for a service be his justification for why a vet. would lack objectivity. Let's factor into the current scenario the fact that his "partner" is a vet. - presumably to be the one officially making the report? If we can't trust the word of an unrelated professional who's been paid to render a service, how can we possibly trust the word of someone with whom there's a direct business relationship?

Frankly, I think Ciccone has long since shot all his credibility all to hell and back. Without uninterrupted video documentation showing the actual animals in question being received by a licensed vet. who doesn't happen to be his partner, I'm not sure there's really any way I could see the subsequent report as being anything other than highly suspect. I think that the time elapsed since their receipt and the vet. visit also works to create serious doubt. How long would it take for seemingly healthy animals to be cared for poorly enough to start manifesting their supposed symptoms?

As a bit of an aside, around the 6:35 mark of the second video, Jason Ciccone references the situation that I pulled the above quote from - hilariously misrepresenting exactly how that situation played out. Homeboy's word is simply worthless, in my book.
 
A video of the suspected chams walking on a branch, stick or whatever would really help in regards to the mbd claim.
 
I received a phone call today from Craig, wanting me to hear a recorded conversation between him & Jay.

It started with, and ended with, Craig asking Jay about his comment about the 8 ambilobi chameleons, he erupted with "I DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT", again, and again, Craig asked 3 or 4 times about the 8 chameleons, and why would he make that up? again, Jay responded with, "I DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT, I NEVER SAID THAT", Jay repeated that the 3 or 4 times he was asked.

The recording is, what it is, Craig asking Jay about the imaginary 8 chameleons, and Jay responding I don't know what you're talking about, and I never said that.

Again Craig, I hope this all works out for you, and you get what you're owed!

Lynn Peterson
Big Time Reptiles

Thanks, Lynn, for verifying what is on the recording.
Your word, and the fact that Craig is willing to allow the membership to elect a second person to hear & verify what is on the recording, is enough, for me anyway, to believe what Craig claimed is on the recording.

....
 
Jay, I know you are reading this … your interpretation of the wire tapping law is incorrect, sort of … it also includes phone conversations.

Julia is either in on the scam or you are correct and Jay made her phone oriel today.

Geez, was supposed to say her account …

------

Oh "Julia" where are you?
 
Yes if they're not give the proper supplements
So if the original report says tomorrow or Tuesdays date, I will believe they received healthy chams and let them develop that disease to further their scam. Unless the vet actually says it's very severe and could not have progressed that much in that short amount of time, but somehow I doubt that will happen. We've all asked them several questions left unanswered.

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