Selective Breeding - Pastels

[deborahbroadus]

I find the way that he is quite acceptable. Where did you get that I didn't? I never said I didn't find him acceptable. I chose that particular breeder after seeing his male and researching his standing in the reptile community. I stated simply he would be even better if he was bred to the female I sent. What part of that didn't you get?

Is there a wide spread lack of reading comprehension?

For me, right now, YEP! I admitted it. I need to get off this computer and get some sleep. I have been organizing, cooking, cleaning snakes and rat racks all day (took off work to do this).

 

[Cat_72]

your post shows that you are not up on the morphs...spiders do the spinning if you havent seen it you can on youtube. as far as the albinos they can be born without an eye and tend to have feeding problems. I didnt say I cared about it. Just thought it was funny how people will bitch about breeding to soon, but have no problem breeding neuro problems or deformities. I would like to know if you have have been to africa. Was wondering how you know just how much the wild snakes are eating, and at what age they are breeding at. Do you follow them around to make sure they dont breed before age 3. I think NOT. You are just another hypocrite

That explains a LOT if you are doing your research on Youtube, lol.

I'm not sure who you are addressing here....no one said that some spiders do not "spin" or "wobble" as far as I can see, although there are some who do not. But, we ARE talking about Ball Pythons here, right? Albino Ball Pythons are NOT known for kinks, nor do they tend to have missing eyes (that has been an issue in some albino BOAS)...nor do they have "feeding problems". My albinos are some of the best feeders I have.

I'm honestly curious as to who is feeding you this misinformation.

As for Ball Pythons in the wild....again, try doing some real research, or at the very least apply some common sense. If you've ever seen some of the wild-caught animals that come in, you'd know that many of them are not what the average person would call healthy.

Honestly....before spouting off things you think are facts, even if you believe them, try actually researching them first. You may have been mislead somewhere along the way, and by educating yourself before spouting off oddball things, you'd save yourself some embarrassment.

Most of us here are only trying to look out for the welfare of the animals, they are much more to us than "moneymakers", they are living, breathing animals that WE took out of the wild and manipulate to our liking. At the very least, we owe it to them to make sure that they are as healthy as we can possibly keep them. If we can do that, and still produce beautiful animals by selectively breeding, not just breeding to produce mass quantities.....that's when we are doing the animals justice.

 

[rabernet]

Wow, I really opened up a pandora's box, I see! But it's a great discussion.

Because I have a relatively small collection (about 40 if you count the hatchlings and those coming in soon - like the Enchi in my avatar), I was very selective in the animals that I brought in. I was just as selective about who I chose to support (I wanted people who I felt took the time to produce the quality that I one day hoped to produce - quality begets quality, I felt).

I know that I was naive and new to the ball python world three years ago, but I'm pretty darn proud of the collection of the animals that I've built. All of them have names (not that that means anything other than that they are all cherished members of my collection).

At no time did it ever occur to me to take shortcuts. I LOVED the time I spent raising my girls - I love all of them, and if I ever had to reduce my collection, I don't know how I'd choose who to keep and who to sell.

I've got a girl I've been anticipating breeding that was 1500 grams last winter, an '06. But I felt that maturity was just as important as weight, so I chose NOT to breed her last year. This is Mackenzie (I did post another picture of her on the first page)

I guess I don't understand the mentality that wants to rush things. I enjoy KEEPING these animals as much as I do breeding them. I believe that selective breeding is the future of ball pythons. I hope to see the value of QUALITY animals (like pastels) go up. And if no one wants to pay what I think my animals are worth, I'll keep them and raise them up. When someone wants a breedable weight quality pastel that I wasn't able to sell as a baby - then she's worth even more as an adult. No skin off my teeth to keep a nice animal around!

I'm not in this to make a quick buck - I'm in this to enjoy my animals. Would I like to see a little profit? Who wouldn't - but I won't take shortcuts to do that.

Here's another girl who I can't wait to grow up to breeding weight - I imagine in two years she'll be up to weight. When she's ready, she's ready - but I get to enjoy her in the meantime!

This is Pickle:

Albey Scholl is someone who I hope to mimic in the quality of the animals that I produce. I know that he also believes that selective breeding is the future of ball pythons, and I believe his pewters are the best there are out there!

OK - I'll get off my soap box (or wrapper! LOL)

But I've found this discussion to be interesting and I'm looking forward to this season and seeing what some of us produce, especially those of us who are working towards selective breeding quality animals and not just pumping out animals for the sake of numbers.

 

[Cat_72]

Great post, Robin....and those are some gorgeous girls!!

Can I ask what you're planning on breeding Mackenzie to? She's got some wonderful color, as well as a very cool pattern.

 

[rabernet]

Great post, Robin....and those are some gorgeous girls!!

Can I ask what you're planning on breeding Mackenzie to? She's got some wonderful color, as well as a very cool pattern.

Thanks Cathy! I'm thinking of breeding her to Winston, my lemon pastel, but I've also entertained breeding her to Murphy, my mojave. But THEN, there's also Zaphod, my Jolliff Tiger male who I think would make some amazing reduced pattern animals with her.

Today - I'm leaning towards Winston, I'd like to see if they'd inherit her blushing and reduced pattern. She's starting to get a yellow wash up her sides now too, which I think would compliment any pastels produced by them.

I plan to start pairing in mid November. I've got six girls I hope to breed this season, but I haven't worked out all the pairings yet - I want to make sure I've got the right pairings to enhance what I want to produce this year.

The only firm pairing so far is my het clown male to normal female that I bred last year and hope I get more females (was 3.1 last year). The babies were HOT little babies, and I still have all the boys, because I'm so attached to them all. I need to find some homes for them as I don't need additional males, but it's so darned hard to let them go! LOL.

 

[Cat_72]

Hmmm....I don't think I'd go with the mojave, I think I'd lean toward Winston myself....but then, I don't think I've seen pics of Zaphod yet either, lol.

 

[rabernet]

Hmmm....I don't think I'd go with the mojave, I think I'd lean toward Winston myself....but then, I don't think I've seen pics of Zaphod yet either, lol.

The thought process for the mojave was that I was thinking maybe she could pass on her extreme blushing to the mojaves. But I do think that Winston may be the better choice.

Here's Zaphod - he's one of my favorite boys! He's actually a bit lighter than these pictures. He's just a cool cat!

And "just because" I want to show off my spiders that are coming home soon. They are from a breeder loan and my girl is staying another season with my friend to breed to my Enchi's brother (we got our Enchi's from the same breeder).

Here's mom during her glow - she gave us 11 eggs and 8 spiders:

And my 2.2

Girl 1

Girl 2

Boy 1 - who I'm going to keep and name Tonka

And Boy 2 who is going to a friend in a trade for a cinnamon male from this season - I get first pick!

 

[rabernet]

Here's the primary reason that I picked up Zaphod. I would LOVE to produce Pastel Tigers one day!

http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/showthread.php?t=56126

 

[Cat_72]

Zaphod is a very cool lookin guy too....but I think I'd love to see what her color and blushing combined with the pastel will look like, they should be some awesome bright kids!

That mama to your spiders is very pretty too, she's gonna make some beautiful babies paired with an Enchi.

 

[rabernet]

Zaphod is a very cool lookin guy too....but I think I'd love to see what her color and blushing combined with the pastel will look like, they should be some awesome bright kids!

That mama to your spiders is very pretty too, she's gonna make some beautiful babies paired with an Enchi.

Well, I think I will stick with Winston for Mackenzie and keep folks posted on the results! I appreciate your feedback!

Hannah (the mom to the spiders) is an awesome girl - I really miss her, but I know she's being well cared for. She's my biggest girl at 3200 grams. She was a actually a pet store pick up, I got her the day after someone brought her in and dropped her off - QT'd her and she's just an awesome animal! I love her personality. I can't wait for her to come home after this season. She'll get a year off after the Enchi clutch.

 

[jasballs]

I have to agree. I am just getting started myself. I chose 2 nice het pieds, the female was a hatchling when I baught her. When she turned a year and a half and only 1100grams I bred her. She gave me 9 perfect eggs out of which were 2 med to high white pieds that were evenly marked beautiful animals.

Nice sized clutch! I normally get 6-8 out of my Yearling females.. The ones that Do breed with out any problems.

 

[deborahbroadus]

WOW!!! That is a gorgeous girl, Robin...just gorgeous!!! Whatever you pair her with is sure to improve that line and if you find a male as handsome as she is beautiful, you have sure winners in the looks department.

It appears that I do not have any talent in projecting that I am joking...Harald can catch me more often than not..but no one else. I had said in earlier posts that I considered ALL Bps beautiful, and later at another time, referred to where I got my BPs and how much they cost. Please don't take my joking about substandard too seriously. I am also interested in having beautiful babies and I purchase the most beautiful animals I can find. But often I am also fascinated by other aspects other than color alone, so my animals may not meet some expectations..but they meet my own just fine.

Here's just a few of the substandard animals that hatched out this year;

The Albino that I am/was talking about that refused her Albino pairing >>:

hatched out the Albino hatchling pictured above this is from her (dam) Het Albino breeding (The sire is handsome too)

She's being paired with a "substandard" (called so, because that's not what I chose for her) high white spider and the same het albino again.

THIS girl...I do not have a pastel that does her justice except for my Gaz and my Super

IMO, my super is AWESOME:

I think what I am actually trying to say is: While I do try to breed the most beautiful animals that I can, I OWN all the animals that I breed, substandard or not. They will all be sold under my name or kept, because I take responsiblity for my "hits" and "misses." This means that I may be selling "pet" quality bps..but it will be me selling them. My friend Nick said he could find me the number of a wholeseller..but I am starting to think that's selling that way is hyprocritical..because they are still being put out there, and people that can't afford the "excellent" pricy ones: See Bryon's List: will still be buying them... so since ...I bred them, I'll sell them...I won't try to pretend that I am anything other than what I am..a woman that loves BPs and loves to breed them because they have so much PROTENTIAL!

I have had a lot of experience with "new/old Christians" trying to force their standards of living on others, while "sinning" themselves. I believe in "LIVE and LET LIVE." I am no looking for "approval" nor do I put anyone elses "standards" on myself...I won't be trying to explain myself again. I have already learned that explanations can come across as "defenses."

p.s. I am not saying the EVERYBODY should be out there breeding...nope, that's NOT what I am saying. I am talking about me and me only.

 

[LakesideBoas]

I knew what you meant, Deb!

I don't see anything you posted that is "substandard"...except perhaps the two Leucys...they would look much better over here...!

 

[deborahbroadus]

I knew what you meant, Deb!

I don't see anything you posted that is "substandard"...except perhaps the two Leucys...they would look much better over here...!

I know that!!

Unfortunately, the ball gods decreed that I keep them else they would curse me for all eternity!

They are ugly!! Butt ugly!! they have this orangish-yellow stripe down their backs (unbroken) and dark eyes with a red stripe down the middle...and they are a creamy white instead of pure white!!!

Let's hope that my Mojave x Mojave pairing does better!!

 

[LakesideBoas]

STOP! You're making me drool!

 

[BryonsBoas]

I posted a list? God may be laughing his ass off if I'm being compared to christians , I don't even believe in organized religion.

Debating is all well & good but when thou cast potshots , expect them back.

Robin , Mackenzie is a screaming hottie.

 

[BryonsBoas]

I posted a list? God may be laughing his ass off if I'm being compared to christians , I don't even believe in organized religion.

Debating is all well & good but when thou cast potshots , expect them back.

Robin , Mackenzie is a screaming hottie.

Was supposed to be...

Debating is all well & good but when thou cast potshots , expect them back.

 

[deborahbroadus]

I posted a list? God may be laughing his ass off if I'm being compared to christians , I don't even believe in organized religion.

Debating is all well & good but when thou cast potshots , expect them back.

Robin , Mackenzie is a screaming hottie.

Byron, in post 29, here's the "list" I am referring to (I was too lazy to quote it the first time...sorry):

If Joe Blow bred his $70 freezer bait ugly pastel and produced more of the same, his primary customer base will be folks who ...

1) Don't know any better.
2) Cheap asses that don't care as long its a good deal.
3) Noobs that have no clue how the pastel gene really works , know what to look for or have no idea what selective breeding is.

On the Christianity tip...Damn.., I agree that my comparisions are sometimes skewed *have a oblique direction* (even Harald has a hard time following them). But there is logic in there, I promise.

 

[arcticsnowfx]

Nice sized clutch! I normally get 6-8 out of my Yearling females.. The ones that Do breed with out any problems.

wow! those are great amounts also. Mine went without a single problem. I would like to hear some stories about the ones that have had problems though.

 

[BryonsBoas]

Oh , that list.