Tony Cueto Bad Guy! (reptile shows)

[ScottsReptiles]

There's no proof to show Scott, Brian never claimed he took them all to the vet to be checked. What he said several times was

The vet is at the show, provided by Tony to check all animals and to prevent any found to be sick or otherwise displaying problems from being sold.

Sorry about.. misread it.. my bad!!

 

[Wilomn]

Let's see, where to begin.......

Tony, unless this is some sort of governement funded equal opportunity to all vendors welcome type of thing, you are 100% within your rights to let in anyone you want and to also keep out anyone you want. However, telling someone 3 days before the show that his paid for table is not going to be honored is not too cool.

I have given this some consideration and this seems a likely scenario- Tony runs these shows for money. At the end of the weekend he goes home with more money in his pocket than he had at the beginning of the weekend. This is good, this is The American Way. To keep doing this he must keep selling his tables to people who want to sell their animals. Therein lies the rub.

Suppose that 5 people get together and say to Tony that if Brian is allowed to sell at his show they will not be there. Unless things have changed dramatically since I was doing shows Tony is not making anything money wise other than the table fees ( yes I know he may be charging for electricity or other incidentals but they are rather insignifigant for now) and nothing off the amount each individual vendor makes, ie, he does not get a percentage off every sale made at his show. So, if these 5 guys say we are out, Tony loses somewhere between 500 and 750, I don't know what he charges for a table, which while not a lot is a fair amount. If he's a smart business man he knows that if 5 guys said they won't be back if Brian is there then chances are good there are 5 to 10 more who feel the same but won't say anything about it. That is a lot of money.

Brian has every right to sell his animals for ANYTHING he wants to whether he makes money on them or not. If they meet the standards set up by the show then there is no reason to bring up the quality of his animals. NONE AT ALL. It seems that he has been reasonable about being willing to lessen the crowding of some of his cages and about the origins of his animals. This is also good.

However, as this is a PRIVATELY run show (as far as I know and if it's not then none of what I have said pertains to this at all) then it is Tony's option to say to anyone for any reason that he does not want you there. Period. His show, his call. If he has enough people telling him they won't pay to play if Brian is there then it is only smart business to say " see ya" to Brian.

Any excuse other than the one about others not wanting to compete with him is nonesense. He's never had a problem, since he is no longer affiliated with jp, that was big enough to have him removed from a show, that I know of. So all this nonesense about his animals and how good or bad they are is just that, nonesense. If no one ever had a major problem with it until now, it must not have been a problem before.

It's too bad that it seems to have worked out this way, but that's life and also The American Way, the way of the dollar. If Brian is keeping Tony from getting as many dollars as he could without Brian then I see no problem with telling Brian "see ya". It's not nice, especially 3 days before the show, but it is well within Tony's rights.

It's not price fixing, it's saying your prices, meaning Brian in particular, are keeping me from making money at MY show so I am not going to let you in.

Now you Brian have to stop and consider whether or not you want to keep lowballing, and I don't mean that as an insult as I have never seen your animals and have no first hand knowledge of what you pay or charge, and have some promoters not want you or raise your prices a little and have those promoters let you back in. I say promoters because I have a feeling that this may not be an isolated incident. I would hope that it is but.......

And no, it still isn't price fixing because these are privately run shows and if the promoters don't like the way you do business whether it be how much you charge, how long your hair is, or how many oreos you where when you dance in the moonlight, it is reason enough to keep you out. By buying a table you are paying for the priviledge of selling at that show, it is not a RIGHT, it is a priviledge so no fixing involved.

At least that's how I see it.

Tony, whoever let Brian's fee and application slip through owes Brian an appology. Your timing is poor but, you are within your rights as promoter.

Wes Pollock

 

[bpc]

Wes, it's 2 weeks before, not three days. And I see your point. It is his show, and yes he has every right to tell me see ya. However, I think being that I have spent literally thousands of dollars with this man, I deserve a little more than, go take a flying leap!

Tony and I did discuss want he wanted to happen if I was going to start doing the shows myself. I thought I was doing it! I had NO complaints from anyone. Further, I was helping Tony promote his shows here in FL through my position w/ CFHS. Tony would often stop by my tables and see how things were going, we would discuss various things, and he would be on his way. NOT ONCE did he say, by the way, those balls look a little crowded, or, hey, I got a call from some guy about something you sold at the last show, or, hey the vet wants to take another look at....


NOTHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

As far as I knew, Tony was 100% happy. The last words Tony spoke to me in person were, "Thank you so much."

I'm a big boy, and I can take it when someone doesn't like me. I can't take it when I get blindsided by crap like this and then further get accussed of things I DID NOT DO! Like selling $4 balls.

Fair is fair, and this was not fair.

 

[Wilomn]

Hey Brian, sorry about the timeline thing, but still, two weeks is short notice. I do agree with you that it isn't fair. And I agree that if there was a problem Tony should have spoken with you about it. I also see no reason to NOT believe you when you say that you did not sell $4 ball pythons.

I was just trying to make sense of Tony's actions. I do not think you are in any way a bad guy, if you've read any of my prior posts you know I would have no problem saying so if I did, nor do I think Tony is a bad guy. It's a bad situation.

I hope you two can work something out so you can continue to do his shows and help him promote them.

Wes Pollock

 

[Python Dreams]

I know that when I attend a show, it bothers me to see cages that are crammed tightly with animals, or imports that are skinny and obviously sick... Nothing is worse than seeing cages so dirty that they smell... To have to be warned about the quality of your animals from JPets (dont know if that is the name) is even kinda weird. I personally could not stomach dealing with sickly animals in the masses to turn over quickly for cash as disposable pets. I'm not saying that is what you do, but that seems to be some of your past maybe, or just things I've seen at shows.
Why dont you tell Jovcham the location where you were setup so he can give his version and show photos if he has them? That would clear up any problems....
Thanks, Tom Baker

 

[bpc]

Opps sorry, I forgot about that question. I was in the West room, back against the North wall. I sell Reptariums, those screen cages perhaps that will help you locate me. Also, I believe I some vision cages stacked on the right side of my tables.

Tom, the warnings I did get, over a year ago were again mostly warnings about the prices being to low. I raised prices to be very close to other vendors, WHEN TALKING ABOUT THE SAME ANIMAL. I do not consider w.c. and c.b to be the same, perhaps thats where the problem lies. Quality of animals has never been a real issue. Tony has yet to give me ANY example of a complaint he's received about an animal I have sold. As I've said before, my business card w/ my name, address, email, and 2 phone numbers sits in the middle of my table at every show. If there are all these complaints why aren't I getting ANY?

 

[KNOBTAIL]

BRIAN, the fact of the matter is

that this issue has nothing to do with crowded cages or wild caught animals or other ridiculous reasons for not letting you in, it has to do with pressure that apparently has been put onto Tony , probably by other vendors. Let me just say this, if you followed the rules to the letter and raised your prices higher than the other vendors, you would still have trouble. So for whatever reason, Tony as well as some of these nameless immature, people have convinced him that or threatened him that they will walk if you remain in the show. Personally, as I indicated in my earlier post, if not you, then someone else will become the whipping boy. These fly by night vendors who cry all the time, even if they make money, will never stop complaining. Nothing is ever good enough for them, and everything is everyone elses fault. You may be better off in not participating in his shows. JERRY TRESSER

 

[bpc]

Jerry, you are probably correct. What really sucks is that I have so much time, money, and energy invested in doing and promoting Tony's shows, it's going to take a long time to recover. I will start doing the Repticon shows instead of Tony's and I guess I will have to go ahead and start selling online.

You know, this would never have been a problem if he would have just approached me and shown me what he had a problem with. But, now after seeing his reply, I really wonder how many other things he thinks I did, that I had nothing to do with.

 

[KNOBTAIL]

BRIAN, I dont know you, nor do I know Tony,

but I do know their are alot of pettyness, jealousies, and undercutting that goes on at these shows. Regardless of the size of the shows. Something that you and I will never be able to stop. Their are vendors who sell w.c. as c.b, in captive bred shows, their are vendors who get animals on consignment at shows, and their are those who steal to become vendors at shows. These are the things a promoter should concern himself with. That includes the vendors behavour, and how his table looks in general . But for whatever reason Tony has seen fit, to ban you, and after reading his post several times it became very clear that their may be some underlying problems that apparently go back aways in time. That should have been resolved had he had a problem with you at that time, and not now. I would have thought Tony would have had enough forsight in bringing to your attention any problem before banning you. Not much we can do , but take heart, their are other shows, and avenues as you know and it would be to your advantage, to take a hiatus from Tonys shows, regroup your self and come back even stronger. Best regards, JERRY TRESSER

 

[Darin Chappell]

Well, if I had to competing customers (Mr. A and Mr. B), and they were both long -time customers of mine, I could see myself getting into a pickle similar to Tony's if the situation arose in a certain fashion. What if Mr. A told me, "I'll buy all of your animals for a slightly better than average price, assuming you never sell anything to Mr. B again! If not, I'll stop buying anything from, and I'll go to YOUR competitor!"? On the face of it, I would be angry at Mr. A for trying to strongarm me, but I would also recognize that this is a part of the not-so-pleasant business world in which we herp enthusiasts operate. I would have to evaluate my relationship with Mr. B, the economic causes and effects, and then make a very difficult decision as to which customer I wanted to lose, because in the above scenario, I would DEFINITELY be losing a customer . . . the only question is "Which one?"

That may very well have been the position in which Tony found himself. He could allow Brian to continue to use his shows to sell animals at prices set by Brian (which he has every right to do), and risk losing several other competitor vendors, OR he could ban Brian, losing only one vendor, to keep the others happy (which he also has every right to do).

Which answer to the problem is the "correct" one? I don't know. If Tony and Brian really did have a conversation in which Brian promised that he would raise prices, then Tony may have made the right choice. If Brian and Tony never settled the w/c versus c/b issue, then Tony may very well have jumped the gun on this.

Regardless, just as Brian has every right to sell his animals at prices he deems fair, it is also well within Tony's rights to ban him from the shows for doing that very thing. It is not price fixing, it is keeping his other customers happy . . . something we normally encourage here on the BOI.

I suppose this could have been handled better by both parties, just because we could all say things better, given a second opportunity. However, I don't see a "bad guy" on either side of this disagreement.

 

[Mickey_TLK]

I used to do many of Tonys shows, and plan to do more in the future now that I am back in the business. I can say I am nothing but happy with the sevrive Tony and his staff provide the vendorrs. As a traveling vendor (most Tonys shows are 20 plus hours from me) Tony always went well out of his way to make us happpy, and help us when possible. The shows are great (atleast in my memory they are) and I would reccomend them to any vendor (yes risking more competition).

I would have to say to Brian, I understand your anger at being banned from the show. However it is Tonys show, and as others said its within his right to pick vendors as he chooses. If the stories of cage crowding and the like are true, he should have told you, but still its his right to protect his show.

Also I would agree that if I were the promoter, and I was going to loose 5 vendores (could be 10 tables even, depending on the vendors) if I didnt drop one, said as it is to say it, your dropped. Business is Business. Just as its your right to sell at whatever prices you want, its Tonys right to say whos at the show.

On another note, I wonder how much of this is caused by the bad economy, and number of shows in Florida. Its been my experience that when show attendance drops, or sales from attendace drops, usually its caused by saturation in the market. Ive seen it happen in soo many towns/states its not funny. Look at the number of shows in Florida this year. That had to have hurt sales at all the shows. Plus with the bad economy, sale are likely very slow this year in comparison to previous years. All of this combined to make a toxic mix and you got the bad end of the stick. Were it not you, it would have been another vendor. I personally will never complain to a promoter about my sales, atleast not blamming other vendors. If you are at a show to compete in an open market, compete. However I see it happen all the time, and I can understand why Tony did what he did.

But what do I know.....lol.

Hopefully Tampa will be a great show for all involved, I personally hope so.

Mickey Hinkle
The Lizard King Reptiles
402-934-9906

 

[KNOBTAIL]

DARIN, what right does Tony have

to regulate prices. The answer is simple, thats not his business. His business is getting those tables sold and filled with perspective buyers. As I indicated if Brian was abusive toward customers, or their were some serious issues with other vendors, thats one thing, but people in the trade sell their animals for a variety of reasons, and in many instances its not related to what the market price may be, nor is it based on what other vendors feel it should be !

If you stop and think about it, the Tampa show has over 250 vendors, selling everything. Its not Tonys job to regualte that. On Sundays these vendors are looking to sell off their stock. They lower their prices or cut deals, with other vendors, stores, people , etc. Should Tony regulate that as well?

Iam telling you Darin, theirs more to this than meets the eye. I know from good experience in the Daytona show, where their are over 500 vendors that Wayne Hill has his hands full of problems running a show that large, and most of it is related to just insuring that everything runs smoothly to everyones satisfaction.

Tonys first obligation is to insure that his vendors are happy, and they will come back to future shows.The money part is secondary as no one really knows what kind of traffic or sales will be generated. I dont buy this nonsense about Reptile Mag. or other vendors complaining. I dont know what the real problem is, but I do know you cant please all of the people all of the time, and eventually someone will always complain. JERRY TRESSER

 

[dwedeking]

Jerry,

I don't know any of the parties involved in this situation but this portion struck out at me.

The money part is secondary as no one really knows what kind of traffic or sales will be generated.

After talking with promoters at the various shows that we do, I feel there is a large percentage of vendors that do not understand what you are saying here. They immediately equate any sales that they do at their booth with the quality of job the promoter has done. If sales are low it is the promoter who didn't bring in the right people, or enough people. These are the same vendors who spend an hour talking to a buddy about their animals while 10 customer look at their booth and walk away without even a "hi".

The reality is, if Tony had 5 people threaten to leave because of Brian (a real or perceived threat to them), it is just the numbers game that Brian lost out on. A promoter needs to make as many of the vendors happy as possible and at times this is at the expense of one or two vendors.

 

[KNOBTAIL]

DANIEL, their may be some truth to

what you are saying, but even under the best of circumstances, with the best vendors, good weather, their are no guarantees. A perfect example is the now defunct Jacksonville show. Many of the vendors , out of loyalty went into that show, and it bombed! Money was not the motivating force, loyalty was. The premise being that if the show was even slightly favorable, those that stuck it out with Wayne would get the better booths, etc. in future Jacksonville shows. When I attend the Daytona show, I am their for a variety of reasons, and money is the least of them. My business is residual. I meet people, enjoy talking, and have a great time. I also have a very good booth. If I do business fine, if not, I try to cover my expenses. In most instances that never happens because I buy more than I sell. But I may be the odd ball in that situation.

I know for a fact that some other vendors even at the largest show in the world complain even before it begins! I never enterain the money factor. Its part of the business of being in these shows that you have to deal with. That may include people who can sell more reasonably than others. I dont know if that is the real reason Brian was banned, but I am disturbed about it. Its a drastic measure, that I think is really out of bounds. JERRY

 

[Jovcham]

show location

Ok first off. . . just an f.y.i. I'm a woman so "she" can try to clear things up.
OK let me make sure I have your location at the show correct. I am in the middle room of the show looking at the entrance. you would be on the left hand side, at the wall with alot of vendors, not the one with 4 vendors right? about midway down? I dont have any pictures of that vendor if that was you. Or are you the guy in that same wing on the side wall at the corner across from armstrong cricket? I have a picture of that row of vendors but it does not show any kind of detail.

sorry your details of north, south, east and west are a little hazy to me.

if you were either one of those I dont remember thinking anything bad about those vendors. No smell, animals were packed in the one by armstrong but not overcrouded. There were a few on the other side of the show that I was upset with that if anyone should have been the victum of this it should have been one of them. The one with the wild cat smelt bad! I dont see why they could compair anyones smell to that one! there was another that the animals looked like if they breathed in to heavy they'd squish each other.

This is just my oppionion. if you were not any of these vendors try to give me a little more. . . were you around any chameleon vendors? plant vendors? manzinita vendors?

 

[KNOBTAIL]

Just one other point, as indicated, I

know Tony nor do I know Brian, but I do know that the vendors who are SECURE IN THEIR OWN FOOTING, would never complain about anyone lowballing prices. They may complain to the vendor, but I firmly believe that if you complained to Tony that so and so was selling Ball Pythons cheaper , Tony should not have an investigation that results in a warning to the vendor, and then banishment , considering that this kind of bickering and price war scenereo happens at the best of shows. People can sell for whatever they want. If another vendor does not like it, change the item, sell something different, get better prices, but dont gang up with help from vendor friends and take it to the promoter. I would be curious to see what position Tony takes, when these same nameless vendors complain about someone else when Brian will NOT be their. JERRY TRESSER

 

[Darin Chappell]

Jerry, I don't believe I ever said that Tony had a right to regulate prices in his shows, so please don't associate my name with such a position. Furthermore, I elieve that Tony said in his post that it was not his desire to do that either. The price fixing issue is a bit of a red herring, in my opinion.

You wrote, "Tonys first obligation is to insure that his vendors are happy, and they will come back to future shows." I agree that this is the primary responsibility of the show promoter. But, Jerry, if that means Tony is to get rid of one vendor, for whatever reason, in order for a majority of the vendors to be "happy" so they "will come back to future shows," is he not fulfilling his primary responsibility by banning Brian?

I am not arguing that Brian should have been banned. I really don't have enough facts to make such an assessment. I was simply trying to point out that Tony may have been placed in a no-win situation wherein he had to choose between one vendor and several.

 

[KNOBTAIL]

DARIN, you could very well be right,

but If I were the promoter, I would not allow any vendor to apply that much pressure by threatning not to come back if so and so continues to get a booth. We cannot assume that , that was the situation because as you pointed out, this business about price difficulties could very well be a "red herring".

I just find it a bit unusual for one small reptile dealer to be banned for reasons that under normal circumstances could be easily resolved. I dont buy this business about the influence of other vendors being the imputus for banishment.

Nor do I accept the logic that it would be easier to ban 1 vendor so that 6 dont leave. If Tonys show are as good as he claims they are, and if theirs a waiting list to get into these shows, I even doubt this would be an issue.

I did not mean to associate you with accepting a price fixing position, and I also agree with you that Tony is not interested in insuring prices are similar for everyone who sells at his shows, but as I indicated if it is a price problem, this should be discussed between vendors and not arm twisting techniques to get rid of a vendor with Tony. Enough said , their apparently are some problems that we may not be privy to, but after reading Tonys post on the subject, in the end as others pointed out, its his show, his rules and he has the final word. JERRY

 

[bpc]

Guys, Tony is not a "bad guy" because he banned me. He's a bad guy because of HOW and WHY and WHEN he banned me.

If I had been warned about animals, prices, ugly shirts, smelly feet, whatever, I could have worked to fix it and make him happy. Tony NEVER, EVER mentioned a single word to me since the conversation a year ago about me doing the shows by myself. Never sent an email, never sent an employee over, nothing!!!! I even offered to have Tony do an extra final inspection himself before any show started, he never bothered. As I said before, the last words Tony spoke to me in person were, "Thank you so much." That doesn't sound like someone who is considering banning me.

Now, I find out he thinks I sold some kids $4 ball pythons and then didn't even bother to tell them how to take care of them. That IS NOT something I would ever do. I'm a teacher folks, teaching is what I do for a living. I spend more time talking people out of purchases and telling them what they really need to hear (like no, that cute little plastic bowl w/ the palm tree is NOT all you need to take care of that baby turtle) than anyone else at these shows. I quit selling UVB light blubs so that people would listen to me when I told them they really need them, because it sounds fishy when someone is selling the very thing that they say you have to have.

And then there's the whole matter of when. If he had all these problems at Orlando, why wait 3-4 months to do anything about it? I know if I was a show promoter and I walked pass stinking, overcrowded cages, full of sick, dying animals, with prices that were uncutting other vendors, I wouldn't wait 3 minutes to do something about it, much less 3 or 4 months. And I certainly wouldn't let that vendor do 2 more shows! That's why I know this is all a bunch of crap. Those things never happened.

I realize that pretty much no matter what, Tony comes out of this golden. He does a great job promoting his shows and they are well attended. Therefor, he will always have plenty of vendors. I also realize everyone will forget about me after this post drops off the front page. The best I can hope for is for Tony to really sit down and think about what is fair, he's smart enough to know this isn't. Maybe if enough of you contact him, or approach him at the show, he'll realize that if he continues to ignore me and keep me out, he is doing damage to his reputation. Because I won't drop this until we discuss it as rational adults. I'll pass out flyers at every show I do, sending people to this site, so that they can see exactly how he does business.

 

[veronica]

with reguards to the pricing issue. Someone once got really ticked at me for pricing my leo's and fat tails too low. She claimed I as under cutting the big breeders. My reply was simple. They are my animals to sell for what I want. I'm not a big breeder. This is my hobby and I dont have a large stock. If I want to sell an animal for 50 bucks and someone is selling something similar on kingsnake for 120 soooo what?
I just want to unload my off spring and dont have much space to hold them. I have eggs hatching and no where to put all these hatchlings. I keep the ones I really like and want to sell off the others quickly. If selling them for allot less than others gets them out of my house quicker than great!
Its no ones business what I charge for an animal.
Im not trying to under cut anyone. I"m just trying to get rid of some stock.
Don't like it? Tuff!