Top Shelf Exotics (Inquiry)

[Lucille]

There's been a lot of focus on the sick snakes, with people posting stuff and calling vets and so on; there's no question in my mind that the snakes are sick. We even have pictures. Everyone thought it was important to prove up the snakes malaises.

This thread is pretty long but I don't recollect seeing any proof that Chris is ill. Is he? Now that he seems to have abandoned his customers, what's up with him?

I've heard various innuendos and 'I've heards' and so on. But looking back at Fauna history, there are lots of people who claim illness and don't do their deals.

This last post by Chris is beginning to sound like the old Chris who would get in fine form and go off on people and say things that perhaps the rest of us would not say. He doesn't sound like a severely ill person in that last post. Severely ill people keep to themselves, and rarely have the energy to say the kinds of things I'm hearing now.

Is this theater, or real?
He is entitled to his privacy if he is genuinely ill, but.......

 

[Chameleon Company]

Hey Nick,
Just got in and got caught up. When I saw that you felt the need to contact Bob's vet, I thought it really weak. When I saw your excuse, I thought it weaker. You just wanted "the facts", but could have gotten them from 1,000 other places (as pointed out by others) without causing the concern between Bob and his vet, and frankly, who the frick are you to stick your foot in there, provide all this info about what Bob did with the results that he owns because he paid for them which is now an added detail between Bob and his vet that you had no business shoving your nose into? The next time Bob goes to his vet, is she going to say "and no emails from the goofball police, OK?" Your excuse throughout the thread has been "the pursuit of the truth", ...... how tedious and pathetic it has become.
And after reading the last series of communications from Chris, I again express my hopes that he gets well soon. But being sick is no excuse for being lame.

 

[Ian S.]

QUOTE] I would not wish my recent ailments on anyone, not even you few folks who decided that threats or rude behavior may be a means to an end.

and then....... QUOTE]

Hearing what has been said breifly from a few I have spoken with I only wish I could take this situation and dump it on some of your laps. I would take extrordinary pleasure in watching some particular individuals eat every last word spoken here

.
LMAO!!! pschytsophrenia!! Thats whats wrong with this guy he's pschytso pfff... Hey and has any one seen nicholai I can't tell where he is with his head so far up Chris'.........well thats just gross..... Chris man up! Till next time

 

[nicolai]

First Off..I wasnt the one that put her name on a national forum, without her permission or knowledge!!!!!!!!!! I was the one that let her know her name was up in lights!!!!!!!!! I am not even saying Robert was wrong in doing it or anything.
So Jim, Let me ask you this since you are more interested in me then the deal between tse and Robert and others, and would rather question my motives and ethics rather then helping find a resilution to the situation that might benefit the people who are in a situation where they might loose thier money,when your kids are sick and get diagnosed with something, do you call the doctor to get all the facts about thier illness, meds and future outlook or do you go to someone elses doctor who never saw them to get the answers or search it out on the Web. Get real. Quit trying to make me look like i am taking sides. I said this before and will say it for the last time. I only wanted the facts. I guess since Chris wont answer your questions you need to take your fustrations out on somebody, And since I am here you figured I was ripe for the picking.
Here is something for you... Go back and reread this entire thread and find one post I made that said 1) robert was lying 2) the snakes werent sick 3) Robert was a bad guy 4) I knew anything about TSE' situation 5) the hets are really 100% hets 6) I know the condition of the snakes 7) I was taking TSE' side over Roberts

Any 1 of the above will do. Since your so adamant about me defending chris you should be able to copy paste something here that would prove that.

 

[nicolai]

Ian, please put me on "shindlers list" as i dont want anything to do with the likes of you. You are only here to antogonize people and call people names for the enjoyment of it. Once again I say "you look like your trolling"!!!

 

[Cat_72]

Help to find a resolution?? Nicholas, Chris has made it perfectly clear that the only resolution to be had will come about if and when he feels like it.......there's not much ANY of us can do.

And yes, when MY kids are sick, I talk to their doctor. I don't expect someone who has never met either me or my children to call the doctor to find out. THe diagnosis was there in black and white, it would not have been written down if she was not certain of it. It was not necessary to go to that doctor to find out what causes belly rot.

That being said...........none of this arguing is helping anyone.

 

[nicolai]

Yes but if your kids were going to school the next day would it be wrong of the other parents to find out if what your daughter had was contagious and what the effects of the illness could be due to the fact that a lot of other people are affected as well?

 

[Rebel Dragons]

Yes but if your kids were going to school the next day would it be wrong of the other parents to find out if what your daughter had was contagious and what the effects of the illness could be due to the fact that a lot of other people are affected as well?

That's where the responsibility of the parent comes into play. If the child is contagious they don't get sent to school. It's none of the others parents business to call the child's doctor to check up on why they are sick. Any Dr worth their salt would refuse to give that information anyway as it's no one else's business.

But Bob in essence did what a responsible "parent" would do. He let the other "parents" know of a potential problem and even included a Dr's note. You were out of line and went overboard by doing what you did, IMO.

 

[Rebel Dragons]

That's where the responsibility of the parent comes into play. If the child is contagious they don't get sent to school. It's none of the others parents business to call the child's doctor to check up on why they are sick. Any Dr worth their salt would refuse to give that information anyway as it's no one else's business.

But Bob in essence did what a responsible "parent" would do. He let the other "parents" know of a potential problem and even included a Dr's note. You were out of line and went overboard by doing what you did, IMO.

I forgot one part. If the child was indeed contagious the parent would notify the school and they would pass the information on to other parents. I don't know of any parent that grills their children everynight on who was out sick so they can call that childs DR and get the scoop.

You have to take some things at face value.

 

[TripleMoonsExotic]

Can anyone get onto the TSE website anymore?

 

[TripleMoonsExotic]

Nevermind, I was quick on the draw I guess...It's working again...

 

[BocaReptiles]

Wake up people....this is not about our children here, this thread is about TSE and Mr. Chris screwing people over here. Let's try and stay on the subject...... Isn't that right Chris, the one with the big mouth before, and now what....the cat has your tounge???? ANSWER some of the questions that they are asking you....tough GUY!!!!


Best wishes, your friend Sal

 

[Ian S.]

Ian, please put me on "shindlers list" as i dont want anything to do with the likes of you. You are only here to antogonize people and call people names for the enjoyment of it. Once again I say "you look like your trolling"!!!

Heh... Bro you were on my list "at hello" Further more you indiscreetly pursued me when you cautiously deemed me a liar pal. Even after I shut up & put up!

 

[ravensgait]

Get real Nick ""Quit trying to make me look like i am taking sides. I said this before and will say it for the last time. I only wanted the facts."" We all knew who's side you were on since your first post. What gets me and many others here is your constant denial. gee everyone here just wants to get you Nicholas?? No they wanted to point out to someone they respected that he was way left of center on this one.

Calling the Vet ?? and when have you gone this far before in a thread here?? Does never sound about right. And yet you wonder why your getting heat for your comments here. And Clinton said "I never had sex with that woman" You can deny it all you want but what your doing here has been obvious from the beginning IE defending a friend. you should have taken Chris's advice but I bet he knew you couldn't do that.

Cathy I'd get on the phone and call who ever you need to, to get the ball rolling on getting your money back. Do what you need to do before it is to late and there's nothing to recover.

Sitting here waiting on news in this thread will not get your money back folks time to do what you need to if you want to get it back.Randy

 

[BocaReptiles]

Hey Chris,

Just to let you know, you are my idol.....upstate exotics has 104 pages and you are catching up REAL fast..... HOW DOES IT FEEL BROTHER!!!!!

Best wishes AGAIN, your friend Sal

Gotta LOVE fauna!!!

 

[varnyard]

The right thing!!

I have kept up with this thread from the start. At first I too felt compassion for Chris. But, I will ask this of the board. Does a sickness make you free from doing the right thing? If Chris is in FACT sick, then who cashes the checks, and collects the Paypal payments?
Who is placing the adds on kingsnake as well as deleting them. So, someone is running the show.
Something in Chris's comment still bothers me. If he is going to have a major medical procedure. Then how is he going to be up and running the show in a week or two? There are to many points about his last statement that is less than admirable here. Sickness or not. He has lost a lot of clout here IMO.

Tell me this, what is so different with this case than any other proven BOI bad guy? We have his own words here to tell us his thoughts on this. IMHO, it is no where close to the right thing to do. How can we call ourselves good guys, if we cannot do the right thing? WE CAN'T! Bottom line, right is right, and wrong is wrong. I have dealt with Bob, as well as Cathy, I must say it was a real pleasure! That said, Chris has no right to hold any paid goods from these great buyers. He needs to explain why he does not honor his TOS. Bob is entitled to a prompt refund including vet bills, as well as the return shipping. I am sick of the the excuses made here. Chris, these people paid you in the trust that you would provide what they paid for. So far you have not done anything but collect their money and ship some sick snakes. Cathy, does not want your sick snakes either. The right thing to do is give a prompt refund to all of your customers now!!! Stop wasting time, and do the right thing!!! Until the time you make this right, you will be referred to as a scammer. I am sorry Chris, but anything else would be a lie. You brought this upon yourself.
Chris, what if the shoe was on the other foot? IMO, you are not at all right about one part of your side of this. Your costumers paid you in good faith. YOU need to give them a prompt refund in the same good faith!!

 

[Paperkid]

I guess I'm going to Hell too.

I guess I am on the Chris blacklist I mean, for requesting a refund? Below are the e-mails that went back and forth for nearly six months. Sucks big time! I hate acting as a collection agent for myself and it seems that every year I find myself having to do it more and more! I don't know which is worse getting nothing or getting a pair of severely sick Ball Pythons. I already received, through a purchase, my share of sick Ball Pythons for this year and I do not want to do that again. Doesn't New York State have one of the toughest animal police departments in the US? And, can not the FBI internet fraud department help a little in situations like these? Funny thing is that I ordered five Ball Pythons this winter from two different states around New York while the weather was in the 30's and I received them without a single problem, including any health problems. I also talked with several people upstate who breed Ball Pythons for a living and they said they ship during winter as well with no problems. Another thing that is odd is that anyone I have talked to that say they know Chris, have said that they were not aware that TSE breeds their own Ball Pythons, and as far as they knew TSE buys wholesale only, not breed their own.


----- Original Message -----
From: Top Shelf Exotics
To: [email protected]
Sent: Monday, November 14, 2005 5:03 PM
Subject: RE: Item #hapair - Notification of Payment Received from Larry Willis ([email protected])


Thank you for your order, your payment has been confirmed. You will be contacted shortly to confirm order details in preparation for your shipment. Thanks again!

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----- Original Message -----

From: Top Shelf Exotics

To: [email protected]

Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2005 11:06 AM

Subject: Please Confirm



Automated Order Confirmation, you MUST reply to this message!



Before shipping your order we must confirm a few details. Please answer ALL SIX of the questions below.



1. Brief outline of your order, date of final payment.



2. Shipping Address



3. Will someone be on hand to personally sign and accept this package?



Signature Releases

Signature releases allow carriers to leave parcels unsigned at your door step, these releases prevent us from guaranteeing live delivery! If you are not sure if one has been placed on your residence we suggest calling FedEx to check. Many customers have this and are totally unaware of it, it is always best to check prior to accepting live deliveries. We recommend all individuals accepting live deliveries do this to make certain if such a waiver exists it is removed prior to delivery. A signature waiver will result in forfeiture of live arrival guarantee since we are unable to receive proof of signature or personal acceptance of package(s). There are no exceptions to this policy whatsoever. It is always better to be safe, than sorry. We cannot stress this issue enough. Check and remove!



4. Have you read and fully understand the information above regarding signature releases?



5. What is the expected overnight low temperature (F) for your location on the evening of delivery. (If delivery is taking place more than three days from receipt of this message you may skip this question.)



6. What days will someone be on location to accept this delivery?

(Wednesday through Friday. We do not ship over the weekend.)



Once this information has been received and confirmed a shipping tag will be printed for your order and a confirmation email from FedEx will be sent to you. This email will contain the date of your expected shipment which will arrive the following morning, it will also contain your tracking number. Please note that this tracking number will not be active until after 7PM Eastern Standard Time on the evening of your orders departure.



Thank you, a response is required to this message before we continue processing your order.





Sales Department


Email: [email protected]



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----- Original Message -----

From: David Gaithe

To: Top Shelf Exotics

Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2005 10:31 AM

Subject: Re: Please Confirm



1. I am expecting a 1.1 ball pythons that are both 100% Het. for high contrast albino. Date of final payment was on November the 14th of 2005.



2. Please ship to:

2368 Lakeside Ave.

Springdale, AR. 72764-7115



3. YES.



4. YES.



5. 37 Degrees.



6. Wednesday, Thursday, and Friday.

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From: Larry Willis [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2006 10:20 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: 1.1 pair of baby ball pythons



Hi,



I placed a order with you on November the 14th 2005 for a 1.1 pair of baby ball pythons that are 100 percent Het. for high contrast albino. I received the automated order confirmation and I did answer all the questions and sent it back as requested. I also read all the TOS on the Top Shelf Exotics website so I am fully aware about the weather notice. I understand that weather is a great concern in shipping live animals and I would rather wait until weather permits. So, this is not a issue to me. However, I do have a couple of questions that I would like answered that I can not find on the website. This is my third time at contacting TSE sales department. This time I used a different e-mail address.



1. What temperatures are expectable for baby ball pythons to be shipped? Our Low for Wednesday, January 18th 2006, is suppose to be 50 degrees.



2. If I placed an order with you for a 1.1 pair of baby ball pythons back in November 2005 are those the same 1.1 2005 baby ball pythons that will be shipped to me sometime this year?



Below is the TSE order conformation attached to the paypal receipt, and below that is my second e-mail

response/answers attached to the TSE automated order confirmation.



Thank you very much,

Larry Willis

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----- Original Message -----
From: Larry Willis
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sunday, April 30, 2006 2:04 PM
Subject: Fw: 1.1 pair of baby ball pythons



----- Original Message -----
From: Sales@TSE
To: 'Larry Willis'
Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 3:57 PM
Subject: RE: 1.1 pair of baby ball pythons


We try not to ship under 35, our lows have been ranging from 18-22 lately. You ordered a pair of 05 animals and you will receive 05 animals just as purchased.



Take care





Sales Department

TopShelfExotics.com / LeoMorphs.com

Email: [email protected]

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From: Larry Willis [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 10:29 AM
To: Sales@TSE
Subject: Re: 1.1 pair of baby ball pythons



Hi,



not trying to press the issue but are your lows above 35 yet? If you are located in Buffalo, NY. the weather is predicted to be around 46 for the low tonight and ours is expected to around 38 as the low. You are located in Buffalo, NY. - right?



Thank you,

Larry Willis

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

----- Original Message -----
From: TSE
To: 'Larry Willis'
Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 5:05 PM
Subject: RE: 1.1 pair of baby ball pythons


Our weather has finally begun to improve and we should be resuming shipments this coming week and orders will be shipped in the order received, we thank you for your patience and as you have been told previously you will be contacted in order to confirm shipping details such as your correct address and to confirm someone will be present to sign for said delivery. A response to this contact will be required. Thank you again for your patience.



Sales Department

TopShelfExotics.com / LeoMorphs.com

Email: [email protected]



VISIT THE NEW TSE FORUMS!

http://forums.topshelfexotic.com

MESSAGE BOARDS, CLASSIFIEDS, LIVE REPTILE CHAT, PHOTO GALLERIES, AND MORE!

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From: [email protected] [mailto[email protected]]
Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2006 10:33 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject:



Hello,



it has been five months and counting now since I placed my order of a 2005 1.1 pair of ball pythons that are both 100 pecent het for high contrast albino. Our lows are in the 40's and 50's everyday this week and will most likely be next weeks lows too. I have noticed that your lows are not that bad either this week too and are in fact perfect shipping weather. Also, the form I was expected to fill out that was sent to me by you after I made this purchase in 11/14/2005 was sent to you filled out twice since. I have received five ball pythons last month from people in two different states who are located close to New York State without any problems. Do you feel that this week might be the week that I will receive my purchase? If not, please give me an estimated date of when I should expect to receive my ball pythons. If you are finding a date to ship my purchase to me a harder than usual task for you then please send me back a refund and I will make arrangements to purchase a pair of albinos, or 100 percent het for albino, from another merchant. All important information is located below.



Sincerely,

Larry Willis

David Gaithe

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----- Original Message -----
From: Top Shelf Exotics
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2006 9:40 AM
Subject: RE:


Excuse the delay, we’ve been running around like chickens with our heads cut off trying to get caught up since weather recently improved and we’re trying to get as many orders shipped as we can each day in the order in which they were received. We certainly do not want you to think we have forgotten you. We apologize for the delay and we shall be talking with you soon to arrange shipment. Notices are sent prior to shipment which require a response. No shipments are sent without prior approval. Thank you so very much for your patience!



Sales Department


Email: [email protected]

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----- Original Message -----
From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2006 9:33 AM


Hello,

it has been five months and counting now since I placed my order of a 2005 1.1 pair of ball pythons that are both 100 pecent het for high contrast albino. Our lows are in the 40's and 50's everyday this week and will most likely be next weeks lows too. I have noticed that your lows are not that bad either this week too and are in fact perfect shipping weather. Also, the form I was expected to fill out that was sent to me by you after I made this purchase in 11/14/2005 was sent to you filled out twice since. I have received five ball pythons last month from people in two different states who are located close to New York State without any problems. Do you feel that this week might be the week that I will receive my purchase? If not, please give me an estimated date of when I should expect to receive my ball pythons. If you are finding a date to ship my purchase to me a harder than usual task for you then please send me back a refund and I will make arrangements to purchase a pair of albinos, or 100 percent het for albino, from another merchant. All important information is located below.

Sincerely,
Larry Willis
David Gaithe

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

----- Original Message -----
From: Top Shelf Exotics
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2006 9:40 AM
Subject: RE:


Excuse the delay, we’ve been running around like chickens with our heads cut off trying to get caught up since weather recently improved and we’re trying to get as many orders shipped as we can each day in the order in which they were received. We certainly do not want you to think we have forgotten you. We apologize for the delay and we shall be talking with you soon to arrange shipment. Notices are sent prior to shipment which require a response. No shipments are sent without prior approval. Thank you so very much for your patience!



Sales Department


Email: [email protected]

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----- Original Message -----
From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Sent: Friday, April 28, 2006 10:27 PM
Subject: Item #hapair - Notification of Payment Received from Larry Willis ([email protected])


Hello,

I understand the feeling of always being rushed with orders that are backlogged. I also understand that you have no choice but to ship in the order in which the orders were placed. So, if you will, please answer a few questions for me while I wait for my purchase.

1) what is the number of packages being shipped out per week?

2) what number am I in your backlogged list of customer shipments that can be shipped?

3) is my order of the 100 percent 1.1 albino hets guaranteed as being just that - 100% het for albino?

4) are my 1.1 guaranteed to be a 1.1 male to female ratio?

5) are my snakes cb where poss. one parent is a wild caught female breed to a cd or cbb albino male or visa versa, or other explanation?

6) Or, are they cbb where maybe they are from two cb parents, or one parent that is cb and the other cbb, or both parents are cbb?

7) will there be a 100 percent guarantee that they are either cb or cbb?

8) will both of my snakes be guaranteed 100 percent healthy and feeding on frozen thawed?

9) Will you thoroughly inspect my snakes before they leave the facility for any imperfections such as an infections and etc.?

10) under what circumstances will a refund be issued back to a customer of yours?

11) who was it that took my order and will be filling it? First and last name please. I thought that it was Chris that took mine and all of the orders but from what I understand Chris has not been there since my order was placed back in November.

I understand that these might seem like a lot of questions under the already mounting pressures you are experiencing but please do find time to answer them for me. I really would appreciate it very much and it would seriously ease my nerves after reading all that I have on the BOI today, but then again my nerves were on edge before that thread was started. I would imagine that yours are too and for that I am sorry. However, some of the things that are now being brought up on that thread has me really on edge, so rather than asking my questions there and only get speculation on them I decided to ask you, after all, you would be the one to know. Hope everything is alright and that I get my snakes soon, but then again you could hold them for me until they are of breeding weight and have produced their first baby albino for me. LOL!

Thank you very much!
Larry Willis
David Gaithe


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----- Original Message -----
From: [email protected]
To: Top Shelf Exotics
Sent: Monday, May 01, 2006 4:21 PM
Subject: 1.1 pair of baby ball pythons


Hello,

I have yet received any response from you. I sent you an e-mail Friday asking you some questions for reassurance and I felt that surly I would hear from you today. Well, I am tired of waiting now so please send me a full refund. I can easily find a merchant that will not only address my concerns in a timely manner but will not have the hang-ups or problems with shipping that you are apparently experiencing right now. Nearly six months is way too long to wait for something that I did not specially order from you or plan on. The fact of the matter is that if I had known at the time of my order that there would be this much time passing, and still no purchase shipped to me, I would of never made that purchase from you - honestly. Your ad at that time did not mention that I should read your TOS before making my purchase, nor did it make any suggestions or hints to read the TOS for any reason, and in fact, the guarantees were in the ad, Plus I was buying based on reputation too, so I did not feel that I needed to read the TOS. It was not until It was nearly a week after the purchase that I read your TOS on your website and I read about the winter weather notice. So, I was more than agreeable to wait until weather conditions improved (in spite that I know of a reptile and Ball Python breeder in Wisconsin that shipped all through this winter with no problems) and when the weather did improve for you and me, I was again more than agreeable to wait some more while you caught up on your backorders. However, enough is enough and I am simply too tired now of waiting so please consider this e-mail my formal request for a full refund of the money I send to you almost six months ago. Withholding my refund, in spite of what is said in your TOS about refunds, in fact, goes against not only your own TOS, but it also goes against the TOS of Paypal when you signed up with them as a merchant. I am very sorry that my patients are no longer as thick or forgiving as they were in the beginning of this and I hope you understand my decision and that you will not hold any prejudice against me. I do wish you all well and I hope that you and Chris get through your problems and that you will be up and running smoothly again very soon. Thank you for having me as one of your potential customers. Below you will find all the important info that you will need to send me back my refund to my Paypal account. Take care and be well!

Sincerely,
Larry Willis
David Gaithe
RazorbackExotics

 

[varnyard]

We have yet another that got sick snakes from you Chris. And yet again you have not honered your TOS. Whats the deal Chris?

 

[Scott Ashton]

We have yet another that got sick snakes from you Chris. And yet again you have not honered your TOS. Whats the deal Chris?

Bobby:

If you're referring to the last post, he said he had received his share of sick animals, but they weren't from TSE.

His issue is that he hasn't received any animals from TSE, nor has he had answers to many of his questions it would seem.

 

[varnyard]

Yea, Scott, I reread it. I took it wrong the first time. But we do have one more that is getting the run around by Chris's TSE. It just is not close to being right. He has waited way too long to get his snakes as well. There is no way they are shipping all of these packages. I would also say. he was not asking for instant pudding. He waited more than enough time to receive his snakes.