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Top Shelf Exotics (Inquiry)

Randy,

If those individuals are so interested in share their experiences maybe they won’t mind having you post their contact information in here (e-mails). Ask them first of course. They may want to be contacted by some of the people willing to take legal recourse against TSE.

Regards
 
Nick,

Here's one of the rubs:
Once again you will notice that i dont fault you or anyone hear on thier views or opinions towards Chris and try to change they way you stand on this issue but yet you feel the need to continue fault me for mine in your demeaning posts towards me.
Click to expand...

You absolutely have been critical of others here, to include the "message we might be sending to the 8-16 year olds", and that was what prompted the retort about your vote, as it certainly sends a message, and was a call for you to practice what you preach, or stop preaching. You also painted with a broad brush and insulted more than a few with the whole karma thing. People can agree to disagree, and it happens here all the time. But don't ride some "once again I find no fault with others horse" here.

I don't want to put words in your mouth, but at times I can't take your point regarding Chris' troubles any other way except that you seem to view lack of integrity as just a mistake or a momentary lapse in judgement. Its not about a flip when he's good or flop when he's not to most of us. Hets proving out will not make Chris a "Good Guy" again to many of us, although it will ease the minds of a few. BTW, my best friends are the ones with the guts to tell me when I'm screwing up. There are plenty more "bad Chris" stories waiting to be told, either by non-members here or acitve members who feel that discretion is still the better part of valor, or that maybe Chris just might fill their order if they don't tweak him.
 
Chameleon Company said:
Here's one of the rubs:


You absolutely have been critical of others here, to include the "message we might be sending to the 8-16 year olds", and that was what prompted the retort about your vote, as it certainly sends a message, and was a call for you to practice what you preach, or stop preaching.
Click to expand...

My post was in reference to the language that was being used and the way it was being used. There is a way of making a point and stating what your opinion is in a way that wont offend anyone or cause worries for the parents of children on this thread. I think webslave made that perfectly clear, that was his whole idea with the recent crack down on th site.


Chameleon Company said:
People can agree to disagree, and it happens here all the time. But don't ride some "once again I find no fault with others horse" here.
Click to expand...


How many times can i say there is fault to be found here and that Chris was wrong, I guess i will just add it to the bottom of all my posts on this thread so i wont get a repeat of the accusations towards me.




I believe that Chris TSE was wrong in the way his businss has and is handling his customers and believe his customers should receive what they are owed, whether it be monies or animals!!! I hope chris makes this right and rebuilds his reputation in the Reptile hobby again!!!
 
Nick,
The reference to "finding no fault" was quoting your words about yourself in an earlier post when you said "notice I don't fault anyone here for their views", and was not a characterization of anything you said of Chris, supportive or otherwise. To be quite honest, your concern for what the 8-16 year olds might take from Ian's post is a stretch for a few of us. I personally like that age group seeing some of the pure disdain others have for Chris due to current and past actions, and consider it a good lesson. Some folks will dislike Ian's tone because of its abrasiveness, while most of us do not care, and feel that many have the right to tongue lash Chris until they feint. You had a problem with that view, but when others like me pointed out the hypocrisy in your words, you claimed you were being "bullied". If a post crosses a line, it will surely be reported by the BOI police and Rich will levy warning points, and fines will occur. Considering your views here, and your standing by Chris, you are more than welcome to disagree with me or any other, but don't pretend to know how an "adult" would act in their shoes, which is to imply that they are being childish, and don't preach to me about the kids and expect a free pass. I do not embrace the Rodney King "Can't we all just get along" view.
 
I do not think most of the people reading this thread are too concerned about Nick and his loyalties. He would obviously be a stalwart friend to have in bad times. That is all!
This multi page thread is about Chris and Topshelf.
 
Casey Hulse said:
I do not think most of the people reading this thread are too concerned about Nick and his loyalties. He would obviously be a stalwart friend to have in bad times. That is all!
This multi page thread is about Chris and Topshelf.
Click to expand...

Exactly, Casey.

And gee, still no word from anyone at TSE world. Anyone else hear anything?

And Bob, how are your snakes doing?
 
Cat, besides yourself and robert, How many others are there so far that we know of that are still awaiting animals or money. Is the an official count as to how many at this point?
 
nicolai said:
Cat, besides yourself and robert, How many others are there so far that we know of that are still awaiting animals or money. Is the an official count as to how many at this point?
Click to expand...

Eeeeesh, I have to go back and count, actually. There are a couple (3, I think?) of others that have posted on this thread, a couple that have contacted Justin that aren't paid members, one that has contacted me that is not a paid member.....and there was that separate list on KS that had several names as well before it was pulled.

I'm more than willing to bet there are still a whole lot more that are afraid to speak up, judging from what a couple of folks have told me in PM. :(

Bob Kite received snakes as well, I haven't heard back from him as to how they are doing, I'm hoping that is a positive sign.
 
Bob Kite said:
Now, I just want to say that my animals have now arrived, ALL 5 (1.2 Het. Albino and 1.1 Het Orange Ghost ball pythons) seem to be in outwardly good health, they were all very lively when I took them out of their shipping bags, and all are pushing 200 grams or more. Aside from the lack of communication, everything seems to be in order.
Click to expand...


Cat,I believe that was the last pdate from Bob. Hopefully the animals he received are still doing well. Maybe he will update us soon.
It looks like after all thier claims are totaled up it could esily hit $10,00.00
or so.
 
Brokered Hets?

A question that has been asked by many in this thread, and is apparently just taking up space on the list of questions Chris will not answer, has to do with whether Chris produced his own hets, are was just reselling or brokering the production of others. Whether asked directly, or in the form of requesting pictures of visual breeders, the concept needs to be questioned.

I realize that everyone wants Chris' explanation, and that it is a valid question to ask. But is it reasonably conceivable that a legitimate producer of hets would need or want a middleman such as TSE? The profit margin is more than enough to entice anyone to be the direct seller. And if Chris is not the producer, then there's another link in the chain of integrity that could be a scam. I do not want this to be confused with someone purchasing hets from a reputable breeder (names previously mentioned) with full documentation and proven reputation, and then deciding to resell it. I am just talking about he notion that someone would sell hets in quantity to TSE, who would then resell them, and everyone is supposed to rest assured with the integrity of the animals. My view is that the only logic in such a relationship would be if a scammer were involved. Assuming such a situation existed, as it is one alternative to Chris not having produced them all himself (the other being fraud), how irresponsible would it be for Chris to take the animals produced by others, now already at risk, and pass them on as the real deal?
 
nicolai said:
Cat,I believe that was the last pdate from Bob. Hopefully the animals he received are still doing well. Maybe he will update us soon.
It looks like after all thier claims are totaled up it could esily hit $10,00.00
or so.
Click to expand...

Thanks Nick, I missed that post from Bob.

I don't think $10,000.00 is an unrealistic amount at all, considering just those folks we know about for sure.
 
Chameleon Company said:
A question that has been asked by many in this thread, and is apparently just taking up space on the list of questions Chris will not answer, has to do with whether Chris produced his own hets, are was just reselling or brokering the production of others. Whether asked directly, or in the form of requesting pictures of visual breeders, the concept needs to be questioned.

I realize that everyone wants Chris' explanation, and that it is a valid question to ask. But is it reasonably conceivable that a legitimate producer of hets would need or want a middleman such as TSE? The profit margin is more than enough to entice anyone to be the direct seller. And if Chris is not the producer, then there's another link in the chain of integrity that could be a scam. I do not want this to be confused with someone purchasing hets from a reputable breeder (names previously mentioned) with full documentation and proven reputation, and then deciding to resell it. I am just talking about he notion that someone would sell hets in quantity to TSE, who would then resell them, and everyone is supposed to rest assured with the integrity of the animals. My view is that the only logic in such a relationship would be if a scammer were involved. Assuming such a situation existed, as it is one alternative to Chris not having produced them all himself (the other being fraud), how irresponsible would it be for Chris to take the animals produced by others, now already at risk, and pass them on as the real deal?
Click to expand...

I know that question has been asked, and I don't know that there have been any clear answers. I do know that all of the het paperwork he provides states that the hets were produced at his facility. I think Chris may have briefly touched on the question in one of his posts............but I may have been hallucinating.
 
If the hets dont prove out, it will be time to sell the condo because that could end up being 50,000.00 or more due to the number of hets that were sold, Plus the guarantee of 125% refund stated on his site. As long as the hets prove out it shouldnt be that hard for him to take care of those wanting and deserving refunds, heck one platinum visa card with the 25,000.00 limit could make this whole thing disappear (atleast here, but not in the memorys of those involved and affected by all this).
 
from several pages ago

You were told before we do not resell other breeders bp morphs as our own. If this was the case I would think numerous breeders would have stepped up by now to confirm your ASSumption. And to think I wasted the time honoring this garbage with an answer.
Click to expand...
here is his reply to that question
 
Cat_72 said:
I know that question has been asked, and I don't know that there have been any clear answers. I do know that all of the het paperwork he provides states that the hets were produced at his facility. I think Chris may have briefly touched on the question in one of his posts............but I may have been hallucinating.
Click to expand...

The only way he touched on this was to tell me that I have asked it before and was told they were produced by TSE (by Glenn). Basically he declined to answer it. All he had to say was that they are or aren't. What is so difficult?

By the way, here is the email from Glenn:

"We never stated we did not produce them. We do not sell other peoples bp morphs. Take care"
 
Cat_72 said:
Eeeeesh, I have to go back and count, actually. There are a couple (3, I think?) of others that have posted on this thread, a couple that have contacted Justin that aren't paid members, one that has contacted me that is not a paid member.....and there was that separate list on KS that had several names as well before it was pulled.

I'm more than willing to bet there are still a whole lot more that are afraid to speak up, judging from what a couple of folks have told me in PM. :(

Bob Kite received snakes as well, I haven't heard back from him as to how they are doing, I'm hoping that is a positive sign.
Click to expand...

There are threads about TSE on other sites (redtailboa.net & ball-pythons.net that I know of), so more folks are affected than will ever post here, intimidated or not.
 
shavemycoinpurse said:
There are threads about TSE on other sites (redtailboa.net & ball-pythons.net that I know of), so more folks are affected than will ever post here, intimidated or not.
Click to expand...

I wish those who are or have been intimidated would take another look within themselves and find the courage to post.
I do not deny that it does take courage, I well remember Chris when he would comment on others here on Fauna in the past, and he can be very cruel both to the innocent and guilty.

But sometimes, it's time to stand up for yourself, and tell both yourself and the world that you just aren't going to be bullied any more.
 
Snake Update

The female is doing well, she is eating. The male however won't eat and is very thin. They both go back to the vet this afternoon for their Pancur treatment, and the male will get his last Baytril injection. I am going to try and get a more definitive answer to the question I asked her at their last appointment. Can you tell if they are imports or not? Her answer to me was "No, but in my opinion, the Giardia would point to it". Although the snakes are looking like they will recover, no credit for this can be given to Chris, who has not once called or emailed me (as himself) to check on their condition, or to address a refund.

Another question:
How would one go about reporting possible tax evasion to the State of New York? The IRS is easy.
 
tejasranger said:
The female is doing well, she is eating. The male however won't eat and is very thin. They both go back to the vet this afternoon for their Pancur treatment, and the male will get his last Baytril injection. I am going to try and get a more definitive answer to the question I asked her at their last appointment. Can you tell if they are imports or not? Her answer to me was "No, but in my opinion, the Giardia would point to it". Although the snakes are looking like they will recover, no credit for this can be given to Chris, who has not once called or emailed me (as himself) to check on their condition, or to address a refund.
Click to expand...

Well, glad to hear the female is doing so well. As for the boy, well, give him some time yet. With all of the stress of being shipped, poked, prodded, and not feeling good on top of it, he's hopefully just not ready to eat yet. I will keep my fingers crossed for him.
 
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