• Responding to email notices you receive.
    **************************************************
    In short, DON'T! Email notices are to ONLY alert you of a reply to your private message or your ad on this site. Replying to the email just wastes your time as it goes NOWHERE, and probably pisses off the person you thought you replied to when they think you just ignored them. So instead of complaining to me about your messages not being replied to from this site via email, please READ that email notice that plainly states what you need to do in order to reply to who you are trying to converse with.

  • IMPORTANT! PLEASE READ!! About the Google Adsense ads being displayed

    =====================
    Posted 08/15/2025
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    Yeah, I know. They are a pain in the butt. But they pay the bills to keep my server running. Just a fact of life, I am afraid.

    Want to get rid of them? Simple. Just become a Contributor level member or above and they will be gone. -> Please click HERE."

    Is that too much for me to ask of you to keep this site running? Well, sorry about that. I too wish I could get everything for free. But alas.....

    =====================
    Addendum: 01/10/2026
    =====================


    Google Adsense ad revenue for December, 2025 was just $30 over the cost of the lease for the server running this site. So, in effect, the money providing the incentive for me to continue running this site is coming SOLELY from the paid memberships and sponsorships here. Which honestly ain't much....

Top Shelf Exotics (Inquiry)

Can you tell if they are imports or not? Her answer to me was "No, but in my opinion, the Giardia would point to it".
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On the other hand it can point to the cleanliness with which the bp were housed. We know for a fact Chris imported bp. That doesn't mean that those were the ones being sold as heteros but they may very well be the source of the contamination to other CBB in his premises.
 
Thanks for doing the research on where TSE stated that they produce all of their own, which then harkens back to folks wanting to see pictures of the breeders. Not that it would ease anyone's mind much, or detract from the "proof being in the pudding" as offspring from TSE's hets start to hatch out this year.

I would guess that a few of you with dogs in this hunt have already posted in some of the other threads in other sites, looking for more who may have a claim against TSE. Beyond that, if the current number is around 10G's, I think we all would acknowledge that there could easily be twice as many victims who never heard of the BOI or Fauna, much less check here on even a monthly basis. Its one more incentive to keep this thread active.

Speaking generically for some of us who have posted criticisms, my harshest criticisms for Chris are not about his business being on hard times, being unable to fill orders for honest reasons, to include bad management and lack of cash flow, etc. Its for the deliberate half-truths, some blatant lies, deceptive business practices, and contempt for his customers, to name a few. Its not for any "bad situation" that has befallen him somewhat objectively, its for his choices to not make the best of his bad situation. If it seems that a few of us are cold-hearted, with regard to Chris' lack of ethics, that would be a correct assessment.
 
I've asked both the people who contacted me if I could post their info here and have received permission from Joel here. Haven't heard back from the other yet. Randy
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No definatly, my name, username here, and my e-mail [email protected] can be posted, in fact I would appreciate it. I did go ahead and send an email to one guy who was collecting names to put on a list but never recieved a response from him. Anyways yes, please do post that info as it would help my case as much as everyone else's.

Thanks,
Joel Letcher
 
ravensgait said:
I've asked both the people who contacted me if I could post their info here and have received permission from Joel here. Haven't heard back from the other yet. Randy
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No definatly, my name, username here, and my e-mail [email protected] can be posted, in fact I would appreciate it. I did go ahead and send an email to one guy who was collecting names to put on a list but never recieved a response from him. Anyways yes, please do post that info as it would help my case as much as everyone else's.

Thanks,
Joel Letcher
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He's getting it all put together Joel....he will contact us all when he gets a mailing list of sorts set up.

Jim, believe me, my feelings are no different than yours at this point, other than the fact that I'm also wondering whether I'm going to ever see my money, besides worrying for the others waiting as well.
 
I've asked both the people who contacted me if I could post their info here and have received permission from Joel here. Haven't heard back from the other yet. Randy
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Is it just me or do others think it would be worth 10 bucks to post the info yourself? If I was out the money that some of these guys are out I would think it would 10 bucks well spent.,
 
kmurphy said:
Is it just me or do others think it would be worth 10 bucks to post the info yourself? If I was out the money that some of these guys are out I would think it would 10 bucks well spent.,
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I agree, posting here is well worth the $10; those who are reading and who may have subsequently purchased from Chris without having this info have their opportunies for making informed decisions greatly enhanced.
 
It was worth it to me to post here!

I just paid for a Contributor level membership. The main reason behind this was to be able to do more things on the Forums that I used to be able to do before it became restricted to paid memberships, but certainly, posting here is a BIG reason as well. I feel REALLY sorry for the people who have been potentially scammed by TSE. My only knowledge of TSE and a number of others is only through reading these forums. If I purchase from someone, I usually have seen their herps firsthand or know people who have. But from what I do know of TSE, Chris was never one to shy away from bashing others when there were any inconsistencies in their posts. He was a very "active" member here. It is amusing to me that he can manage to type paragraphs of BS and tap dance around answering questions about what most of us feel will be discovered soon enough anyway. It would seem that he had a rather large ego and was always ready to discount others. This should just serve notice that these types of scam artists are an unfortunate by-product of this hobby and that as long as people believe they can "get rich" by producing some rare morph and that they will "get in on the ground floor of this exciting new project" by purchasing Hets that are "bound to produce visuals" there will always be targets for people (read scam artists) like the one being exposed in this seemingly endless thread. Pardon my run on sentences, but I have to believe that all reputable breeders should be able to make some type of guarantee concerning Hets. Personally, I won't sell anything priced as a HET unless it is 100% Het, but that's just me. That's my POLICY. I would hate to be in the position that the people that bought "yet to be proven Hets" from Chris are in right now, especially considering the hard earned $$$$ they spent to get them.Too many people get by "talking a good talk" in this hobby, hiding behind keyboards and aliases. Others are very proud when they are showing off all of the wonderful specimens that they were able to purchase from other Breeders and are very quick to tell everyone about how they are going to breed these animals to produce amazing "investment quality" animals. It usually takes a large amount of cash to get "investment quality animals" (Read High end BPs , Raptors, Mack Snows, etc.) and it seems pretty clear how some people with poor business ethics can come up with the cash to get them..... by swindling honest people who had no reason to question someone with such an "outstanding reputation" gained from having a GGC. There are people who have been around a long time in this business without ever having to sell anything over the internet or by using electronic fund transfers and their reputation was based largely on face to face encounters and it's sad that someone can build such a large reputation as a good guy and potentially turn out to be one the biggest scammers in the industry because of their ability to hide behind a computer monitor and use of a slick website on which to sell their false products. That's my two cents on this whole thing.
Regards,
Frank McGowan
 
We have been watching this thread and did not know if we should post or not. But since we are getting nowhere with chris we thought it about time. Back in Dec 8 05' we purchased a pair of %100 het high contrast albino balls. We were given the run around about the weather conditions and whatnot, with multiple emails to TSE asking questions that went unanswered. We requested a refund last month and were told they don't do that, so we went through paypal to try to get our money back and it was after the 45 day rule so we got nothing. At which point we received a email from TSE stating that they saw we were trying to get a refund and because of that we were placed in the back of the line and that chris himself would deal with us if and when he returned. We have since tried to go through our credit card company for a refund and that is where we stand at this point. So now it seems we are out the $599. We just paid the $10 to post and strongly urge anyone else who has been ripped off do the same.

Ryan Cocchiara
Silver State Exotics
 
I am sorry to say,

that you will not be able to get a refund from your credit card co. because you waived your right once you introduced paypal into your life as your "money carrier" Those funds are lost.

What you can do, is attmept to file a criminal complaint for fraud through the FBI, as well as any other agency or if some members are trying to get enough people together, contact the state attorney generals office.

Their are many other avenues open for redress. But I am very curious to see how many snakes he has in fact sold as investment quality, which may turn out to be nothing more than a scamhet ! We shall see. The problem is , are the buyers willing to come forward after realizing that they have purchased a snake or snakes that are now questionable. I dont think so!
 
I hate to ad more grief for all those who purchased het ball pythons from Chris, but I noticed he used to post pictures of his leos all the time in the leopard gecko forums, even his incubators with eggs in them. He was obviously proud of them.
Has anyone seen any pictures of his ball python setups? Any pictures of his morphs breeding big fat females? I do not get on the ball python forums much, but it seems like he would have been very proud of all of these ball python hets he supposedly produced (I know I would! it is not easy). Maybe he has pictures on his Topshelf Forum?
I know it is pretty much a "done deal" with Chris, it is what I have been afraid would happen, JESSE UNDERHILL with a brain, 2 absolutely unscrupulous greedy predators with no character whatsoever!
 
SilverStateExotics said:
We have been watching this thread and did not know if we should post or not. But since we are getting nowhere with chris we thought it about time. Back in Dec 8 05' we purchased a pair of %100 het high contrast albino balls. We were given the run around about the weather conditions and whatnot, with multiple emails to TSE asking questions that went unanswered. We requested a refund last month and were told they don't do that, so we went through paypal to try to get our money back and it was after the 45 day rule so we got nothing. At which point we received a email from TSE stating that they saw we were trying to get a refund and because of that we were placed in the back of the line and that chris himself would deal with us if and when he returned. We have since tried to go through our credit card company for a refund and that is where we stand at this point. So now it seems we are out the $599. We just paid the $10 to post and strongly urge anyone else who has been ripped off do the same.

Ryan Cocchiara
Silver State Exotics
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Thank you for coming forward Ryan. It seems that no matter what one does, at least from the evidence so far, a refund will not be forthcoming. This 'bottom of the heap' tactic is in my opinion particularly egregious, because I have NEVER heard of an ordinary ethical businessperson using this particular sort of punitive tactic.

Ryan, if you are successful with your credit card company please post again and let everyone know. I hope you will receive your money back somehow.
 
Ryan,

Could you go ahead and post those emails from TSE? I don't doubt that you have them (because that is apparently how they handle people that complain about THEIR screwups) but any additional information is always helpful as this thread will be here for eternity (or close to it). Due to the good work of the people here and their willingness to not allow scammers to browbeat or threaten them into submission, TSE is effectively out of business (since they don't accept any payments except Paypal and that is no longer even possible). The sad thing is this is only going to get worse for Chris and he could have fixed it. Makes me think he isn't quite as sick as he says because with the effort he put in writing his novels and trying to intimidate, he could have made things right.

"If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bull****"

So the saying goes...
 
One other question that pops into my mind. Did anyone ever hear Chris post a good guy comment about anyone on this site? The more I think about it the more weird it sounds. He never bought a thing from no one mentioned in this forum? Nothing good to say about no one?
 
Did anyone notice this on the contact page on TSE?

(Please note all calls may be subject to recording)

I don't recall that being there before all this. Also their TOS is now gone and so is the auctions section. The gallery and forums don't work and of course we know what happens when you click the buy button in the only section that works.
 
Casey,
Unfortunately, your logic sounds flawless. Its just one more "what's wrong with this picture" observations. Additionally, the multiple experiences brought here by Ryan and others, with the "we don't refund when you've had to wait many months" would equate Chris with competing to be lower than whale dung. Nothing positive to say whatsoever .... not a thing.
 
We found out shortly after placing the claim with our credit card company that there was not really anything they could do. But they are still in the middle of the "process" and were told we would hear from them soon. But we know full well that they can't do anything. We just hope that all the others who have sent money and received nothing come foward. I am sure they took money from lots of other people.

Ryan Cocchiara
Silver State Exotics
 
"If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bull****"
Click to expand...

Or as they say "Deja Moo", the filling that you have seen this "bull" happen before... :)
 
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