TW International Wyatt in Texas

[snake5007]

Is it possible for a snake to catch an RI and and start showing symptoms in a few days? I have only had one experience with an RI, but i was under the impression that it'd take a few weeks for the symptoms to come out?

 

[HRoss]

The post regarding Dizzy developing her RI was October 2nd -- your het clown arrived to me on September 28th.
Quote:
Last I checked, September 28th comes before October 2nd.

Dizzy developed her RI symptoms on September 29th -- I started her on Tylan, and Kari had told me that she should have shown improvment within 24-48 hours. By October 2nd, she was getting worse, which is when I started her on Baytril. That is the same day your het clown female exploded with a full blown respiratory problem



sept 19th the day the group of animals wyatt sent me are within 10 days and perfect health. and this is a huge risk for me to admit that i brought in animals from someone that is accused of having the plague. sorry, i think the problems came elsewhere. the other guy with the ri. well you treated it properly. i use 15 mg per kilo of batril and only combo fortaz if severe.
wyatt might have had his problems but dont scapegoat him for a death virus unless you can prove it. i have nothing to gain from this. and i am sorry for your loss. live animals can be very painful i killed my first motley boa after paying 10k for him the first year they came out. i was inexperienced in treating and recognizing symptoms, and i payed dear for it.
howard

 

[Wilomn]

Howard, we don't know that you got animals that were mixed with the female Jen got. We don't know if there are other deaths at wyatt's. We don't know much.

I'm glad your animals are healthy but your repeating yourself is not going to bring to light the info we need from wyatt.

Where ya been wyatt? What's the answer? HAS anything died on you in the last few months?

 

[HRoss]

sorry you make a good point. but, you did ask for a timeline. now i uderstand you were not asking me. you have mine. infer from it what you will

 

[The BoidSmith]

Is it possible for a snake to catch an RI and and start showing symptoms in a few days? I have only had one experience with an RI, but i was under the impression that it'd take a few weeks for the symptoms to come out?

As I stated before it will depend on the build-up immunity of a given snake, stress, environment, etc. How to tell how much time it will elapse from inoculation to symptoms is bvery difficult to tell. In fact you would have to be absolutely sure to know when was inoculation and that would only happen if you did it on purpose (like in an experimental trial).

Regards,

 

[critical bill]

Why is it so hard for Wyatt to just admit that he sells sick snakes?

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showpost.php?p=285690&postcount=2

Thats some good BS you tossed that fella, Wyatt. The snake developed allergies moving from one state to another.

 

[critical bill]

Why cant Wyatt make this right for Jen like he did that guy?

 

[Scramblermike]

Hey Wyatt!

Well,
Maybe what Jen has going on is different than what the Pastel had. I got him treated and I will get this other guy healthy. However I have another question for you. How come this Snake was shipped C.O.D. I guess since it did not make it overnight the courier decided not to charge me. But when we had worked our original agreement it was a shipped price. I wish you luck with this other stuff. I don't want to keep pinging on you what happened has happened. And I am taking care of the situation. But when I pay as much as I did for this guy I expect an animal in great shape that is ready to go. Not somebody I have to get healthy to make worth having in my collection. On a side note since he is now healthy I am going to watch him for another week and decided whether I should risk putting him with a female. Later Mike

 

[critical bill]

I guess a scumbag can get rich on double charging customers for shipping if the customers are too dumb to notice. Doesn't hurt to try each time, right scumbag...I mean, Wyatt?

I'm gonna change my Christmas list just a bit and ask Santa for a good saddle so its more comfortable for me to ride you around.

 

[Wyatt]

Response

First off Wes, everything is doing great here at my facility.. Been selling a lot of female adults and babies. One person of which Greg Powers talked about earlier still has a 3000 gram adult female pastel that he has on a breeders loan to from the original buyer and has now been with him for over 6 months. In fact he offered her $2000 to buy her just the other day.

Mike,
Good to here about your male. But I still can't relate the two in the fact that Jen stated that after an in depth necropsy that it was sure enough a virus that was incurable by strong antibiotics and yours was treated and cured with Baytril and Fortaz which are well known antibiotics. So when you find the hidden link between your bacterial infection known as an RI and the highly contagious VIRUS that I obviously sent Jennifer that wipped out all those snakes, including the ones that died before mine even arrived then please let me know.

Howard,
Glad to here those snakes are doing great. I really miss that pastel ghost, he was killer. Hope to see those Super Pastel Ghost this year and get a crack at one back.

Thanks,
Wyatt

What kind of timeline do you want Wes??? Everything is fine here. I am in the middle of my cooling period for breeding and if you want me to take pictures of all 361 snakes in my collections and do a few fecals just let me know.. J/J. I am sory but I do not stayed glued to this as some people obviously are doing so the whole " hello wyatt or where is wyatt " is just a waist of good finger movement. But don't worry I am showing Chuck a good finger movement just as I type this, can you guess what it is ??? LOL

I have shipped out snakes up to and on the same day I sent Jennifer hers' and if I get time I will see if they want to endulge thereselves here. Other than that I am out of here.

Maybe I overlooked it, but two things still concern me a little,

1-- Why did Jennifer never answer as to why almost a month later after she got the het did she attempt to buy another ball python from me?

2-- Why Did Mike not even attempt to contact and tell me about the snake arriving a day later when I shipped it to him. The first time I had even heard of it was when he jumped on this bandwagon of bacterial vs. virus .. No phone call, no email ever saying that she was late. If there is I would please love to see it Mike.

Thanks,
Wyatt

 

[Wyatt]

Mike,
I took care of the shipping. It was not checked COD because I have the orginal. It was billed to my account as the shipper. If it was checked COD then it was changed but I will be happy to send you the invoice to where I paid it on my account if you like.

Thanks,
Wyatt

 

[Wilomn]

What kind of timeline do you want Wes??? Everything is fine here. I am in the middle of my cooling period for breeding and if you want me to take pictures of all 361 snakes in my collections and do a few fecals just let me know.. J/J. I am sory but I do not stayed glued to this as some people obviously are doing so the whole " hello wyatt or where is wyatt " is just a waist of good finger movement. But don't worry I am showing Chuck a good finger movement just as I type this, can you guess what it is ??? LOL

I have shipped out snakes up to and on the same day I sent Jennifer hers' and if I get time I will see if they want to endulge thereselves here. Other than that I am out of here.

Maybe I overlooked it, but two things still concern me a little,

1-- Why did Jennifer never answer as to why almost a month later after she got the het did she attempt to buy another ball python from me?

2-- Why Did Mike not even attempt to contact and tell me about the snake arriving a day later when I shipped it to him. The first time I had even heard of it was when he jumped on this bandwagon of bacterial vs. virus .. No phone call, no email ever saying that she was late. If there is I would please love to see it Mike.

Thanks,
Wyatt

Hmmmm plenty of words yet nary an answer to be seen.

Let's give it one more go.

Have you had ANY snakes die in the last, let's narrow it down, six months?

 

[Wilomn]

Well wyatt, you've been reading my last post for almost half an hour.

I SUPPOSE you could be checking your records to see if anything had died because you know I'll be wanting dates and causes and type of animals and all that stuff, but I doubt you are.

I'm betting there's sweat rolling off your cheeks because you have had snakes die and you don't want to admit it. I bet you're shaking in your shorts because you know that when you do admit it, tell the truth that is, it's going to open a can or worms you had hoped no one would ever know you had.

Prove me wrong boyo, go ahead, do it.

 

[critical bill]

But don't worry I am showing Chuck a good finger movement just as I type this, can you guess what it is ??? LOL

Thats cool. You can even blame me for the cause of your disappearance from this thread. Whether you stick around or not you never had any intention on making this right with Jen. All you've been doing is looking for some angle, some small small discrepency that you could run with to make yourself feel right about doing absolutely nothing.

You're a scumbag. You always have been and you always will be. Six months from now another customer will pop up with a complaint of a double shipping charge and you'll deny that, or paper work that was never sent and you'll promise to make that right, or...and this is my favorite....the snake has allergies and a runny nose and doesn't have an RI but its dead anyway.

You really suck at playing vet. I sure hope you don't have kids.

 

[snake5007]

1-- Why did Jennifer never answer as to why almost a month later after she got the het did she attempt to buy another ball python from me?

She did. You're so busy trying to make her look bad that you must have missed it.

 

[snake5007]

The WC snakes were bought back in FEBRUARY -- 7 months prior to your het clown arriving. The one arrived sick and died 6 days after showing up, before I could do anything -- hence why I said I have never had to deal with an RI. The second one is no longer in my collection and hasn't been for many months -- she laid her eggs, fed, and was just fine, then I sold her. I don't see how these or my CH animals from 8-16 months ago have anything to do with this? If they had carried in the virus, why are my snakes getting sick NOW and not when they first joined my collection? If the WC ones had carried it, how is an inanimate surface going to carry a live virus for MONTHS after both animals were gone, then it magically infects my new snakes?

The post regarding Dizzy developing her RI was October 2nd -- your het clown arrived to me on September 28th. Last I checked, September 28th comes before October 2nd. Dizzy developed her RI symptoms on September 29th -- I started her on Tylan, and Kari had told me that she should have shown improvment within 24-48 hours. By October 2nd, she was getting worse, which is when I started her on Baytril. That is the same day your het clown female exploded with a full blown respiratory problem. Here is the vet receipt for the Baytril as proof:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v176/RavaFlava/1022007VetReport.jpg

I did go in my snake room to check on breeding pairs -- I never said that I completely and totally stayed out of that room 100%. I said I did not go in there often -- to check pairs and check water. Yep, took some pics too. But I wasn't in there every single day, so that's how I missed the other 3 developing symptoms. Regardless of whether I was in there or not, it doesn't change the fact that they indeed got sick and died.

Why was I still breeding? Because up until 2 days ago, I was still being told that this was bacterial and would be able to be cleared up with some simple antibiotics. I don't know of any breeder that stops breeding their entire collection just because one or two have a "routine" RI. I was not breeding the sick animals -- I continued my plans with my healthy ones. Same reason I was looking to buy new animals -- still thought it was a simple bacterial RI with an easy fix. That was also when only the het clown was sick -- do you stop buying animals entirely if one of your snakes has a simple RI?

I have already explained my quarantine procedures previously in this thread. I have one snake room -- the other 2 rooms in my house are my bedroom and my daughter's bedroom. New arrivals go into a separate rack on the opposite side of the room. They are never in contact with my collection on the other side, I wear vinyl gloves when dealing with all new arrivals, change them and sanitize my hands before moving to another animal. I use strictly Novalsan to clean anything and everything in my snake room -- water dish holders, tongs, spray bottles, EVERYTHING. I am a germ freak. I change my Novalsan mixture every 5 days to keep it fresh and effective. When this all started coming down, I was forced to make a temporary quarantine in my bedroom -- and have been suffering since I have to keep the room at 80 and I sure the heck can't sleep at that temperature. That is why I never did it beforehand.

Did I miss anything?

This is where Jen answered you, Wyatt. Kinda hard to miss, don't ya think?

 

[ravensgait]

Damion you come off here as being an ass and your way to easy to bait . That said I can't see laying the blame for Jen's sick snakes at your door step. To short a time period and having another snake show symptoms before the alleged carrier did, just doesn't make sense.

While I don't claim to be an expert on the subject I have seen a pretty good number of RIs over the years as I've been into Emeralds, Chondro's and other Arboreal snakes. I've seen it in both WC and CBB animals over the years and IMO the timeline in this instance just doesn't make it at all very likely that the new snake was the cause here.

Cooling for breeding can turn a mild unnoticed RI (or any illness for that matter) into a life threatening case.

I have to wonder about the symptom that Jen mentioned IE the fluid buildup in the body cavity, which is a symptom of heart failure. I wonder if they will find anything in any samples they may have taken of this fluid.

Jen I hate to say it but like a recent thread here I think you jumped the gun. You should have gotten test done that backed you up as to what Most Likely caused this illness. I know having a sick snake sucks believe me, been there done that and have drawers full of T Shirts. A few have mentioned your Quarantine procedures, your Quarantine isn't a Quarantine at all and hey your not alone I have a few rooms on two levels of my house that I use and still don't quarantine as well as I should sometimes.


Do me a favor and answer me this-- can you honestly say that you are 100% certain that this problem came from Damion?? From what I have read here I'd say that the chance is less than 50%, no where near enough to throw this out into the public eye in this manner. Just my opinion but an opinion from some one with some little experience with RI in Snakes.. I'm sorry you snakes are ill Jen and hope they get better for you ...Randy

 

[Pink Lady Exotics]

a little advice i would give, and i am no pro but work with fairly large collections. but if you have a virus the only way for the snake to defeat it is to bring the temps up well above 80 with a hotter area around 92+. you are going to have to make the hosts environment unsuitable. you have to look at it like this your breeding season is over, and concentrate on saving your animals. i know it sounds harsh, but i am sure your collection means more to you than babies from a few

85 ambient minimum and start shooting them sub q with saline if they will not drink.
not picking sides. i think you are facing tough conditions based on where you live. they are going to need humidity to counter the high temps.
i know you are spending a ton on vets, but how many of them have real world practice in this matter. if you have another one die send it to dr stahl.
i hope this is not garbled i am on pain meds from a car wreck

Howard, I appreciate the advice, but I'm already there. The 2 rooms where the sick snakes are being kept and the healthy ones are being kept are both 80 with heat cable set at 95 by the Helix thermostats. They are being soaked for hydration and the humidity in the room is stable at 70%. It is just fine. The first 2 vets didn't know squat about snakes, but this third and final vet specializes in exotics and reptiles, this is all he studies.

 

[Pink Lady Exotics]

I'm a bit lost on the time line~

Do you have contact with that buyer? Is that snake still okay?

Okay~ so Dizzy was YOUR snake in YOUR collection~ and she came down with symptom of a disease she caught from the new snake ONE day after the new snake arrived? But the new snake that was subjected to the stress of poor shipping did not develop symptoms of the disease she was carrying and infecting others with for another week?

I'm missing something here

The snake is still fine, as are her babies. He bought them as a group and updated me not too long ago.

I asked my vet why 2 girls died yet the 2 hets are holding on. He explained to me that any virus can affect individuals differently -- if they have a naturally weaker immune system, then they are going to succumb to it faster and harder than others who are naturally stronger. An analogy (MINE, not the vet's) would be to consider the human influenza virus. It can affect anyone, but those with compromised immune systems are the ones who are most encouraged to get the vaccine to fight against contracting it because it can kill them, whereas it would make a person with a healthy immune system only sick.

Dizzy showed symptoms after one day, died after over a week. The het clown showed symptoms on the 4th day after arrival -- not a week. She is still alive and fighting. Based on my vet's info, this would lead me to believe Dizzy had a weaker immune system and couldn't fight it off on her own. The same goes for the big girl that died of it, yet her sister of the same weight is still holding on.

 

[Pink Lady Exotics]

...that this so called virus evolved in a collection of WC Adults that obviously have died...

Wyatt, you must have trouble reading. I do not have a collection of WC adults -- I had 2, and only ONE died. Not "all", like you're implying.

...state clearly that she had never seen this before and yet lied because it just happened to one of her WC adults and also to the fact that on Oct 26, 200 tried to purchase more snakes from me...

I never said I hadn't seen it. I said I had never dealt with an RI before. I did not deal with her when she was sick -- she passed away before I could get her seen and treated. I considered purchased another snake from you because that was far back when this was repeatedly being explained to me as a simple bacterial RI, the kind that everyone and their mother gets at least once. At that point, I didn't have a reason to think it would be some virus because no vet (online or in person) had brought it up. Why would it be wrong to inquire about an animal? I also never "tried to purchase" that animal from you. There was never any discussion of price, never said I would send payment, nothing. I simply asked about the genetics, asked about possibly getting into it.