TW International Wyatt in Texas

[Otter_23]

Come on Corey she is just trying to find the truth and save the world from the virus. No alterior motive, can't you tell she is just sitting back waiting for facts. Quit playing the martyr. You are very transparent Tosha, if I believed you honestly just wanted to find out what is happening with this virus and were sincere in helping find ways to deal with it then fine but your attitude and tone is far from that. You have some personal issue with Jen, or you are good friend's with Wyatt and have taken up his cause either way I don't buy you just want to help figure out what is going on. You keep talking about facts but have shown none yourself, at this point in my eyes you are a hypocrite with either some vendetta or personal issue.
"Don't you have better things to do that to waste bandwidth on a nonsense argument? I do." So prove it and sit back and wait for the reports.
"I have no facts on the virus yet " so why do you keep posting?
"I will wait until there are facts to post before posting them or making assumptions." You have made many assumptions, but I guess because you think your assumptions are about Jen then that is ok.

“I'm assuming that by the time of the voicemail Jen had told him about the killer virus - so that is the way he was leaning.”

“I can't knowingly buy from someone that gambles with their animals like that.” You bought animals from someone who was very questionable and that you deemed a scammer, how do you think they were gambling with their animals?

“BTW - not to run it into the ground but not only did Dave Barker and another Big Name know about the virus as well as several other breeders big and small - but they've kept it hushed.” That sure looks like another assumption you stated as fact.

You are a hypocrite.

 

[ravensgait]

Corry just what does that have to do with the price of pears in China?? One real problem here is that some just can't resist jumping on someone they have had a problem with in the past, no rhyme or reason to it just a chance to get some...

Jennifer, that is relevant and makes me wonder how many snakes she hasn't mentioned yet, the longer this thread goes on the more animals come out of the wood work.

I saw this thread the other day and found her comments well interesting http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=106649
Jen I hope no one jumps on you about this , well other than for posting it where you did instead of here in the BOI. Anyone out that way that could give her a hand with this??
Randy

 

[KelliH]

The virus is out there people. You can take my word for it or not, I don't care. I know more than one person who has had this in their collection. BTW, the virus originated from the north west (New York to be exact). I was told the name of the company is Millenium Morphs.

 

[KelliH]

Oops, I meant North East *blush*

 

[ToshaMc]

Come on Corey she is just trying to find the truth and save the world from the virus. No alterior motive, can't you tell she is just sitting back waiting for facts. Quit playing the martyr. You are very transparent Tosha, if I believed you honestly just wanted to find out what is happening with this virus and were sincere in helping find ways to deal with it then fine but your attitude and tone is far from that. You have some personal issue with Jen, or you are good friend's with Wyatt and have taken up his cause either way I don't buy you just want to help figure out what is going on. You keep talking about facts but have shown none yourself, at this point in my eyes you are a hypocrite with either some vendetta or personal issue.
"Don't you have better things to do that to waste bandwidth on a nonsense argument? I do." So prove it and sit back and wait for the reports.
"I have no facts on the virus yet " so why do you keep posting?
"I will wait until there are facts to post before posting them or making assumptions." You have made many assumptions, but I guess because you think your assumptions are about Jen then that is ok.

“I'm assuming that by the time of the voicemail Jen had told him about the killer virus - so that is the way he was leaning.”

“I can't knowingly buy from someone that gambles with their animals like that.” You bought animals from someone who was very questionable and that you deemed a scammer, how do you think they were gambling with their animals?

“BTW - not to run it into the ground but not only did Dave Barker and another Big Name know about the virus as well as several other breeders big and small - but they've kept it hushed.” That sure looks like another assumption you stated as fact.

You are a hypocrite.

I have no problems with Jen - as a matter of fact I sent her a very supportive email a few weeks ago when she was getting reamed on Kingsnake. I have no allegiances with Wyatt - I had a good transaction with him some time ago and I am aware of his issues that have arisen since then. My motive is about the virus. The only reason I keep posting is to find out more information (that is what the assumptions are there for) - that Jen lied repeatedly isn't my fault - that I wanted to get clarification on the lies isn't exactly uncalled for - that I bought animals from someone three years ago that turned out to be a scammer isn't the issue - I at least followed proper quarantine procedure and I didn't put my snakes in jeopardy. How am I supposed to show facts - I'm not the one that supposedly has a mutant virus running amok in my collection?

 

[KelliH]

Oh and By the way, I have NO personal issue with Jen, I'm not good friend's with Wyatt, nor am I a hypocrite. I am just telling it like it is folks, of course none of the big ball python breeders want anyone knowing of this! It would screw up their business and cause loss of sales. Just stop and think about it!

 

[LakesideBoas]

So...

Kelli, is this something that has just hit the "big" breeders and they're trying to contain it or was it acquired outside of a closed collection from import stock, or what?

I'm learning as you all are posting, so if there is any information out about this by all means post it!

If anyone gives you a hard time about it, well, I at least, would back you up as secrecy is detrimental in this case. If I purchase an animal and it presents symptoms like the ones mentioned here, it would sure go a long way to recognise what the heck I'm dealing with. Yes, I have a separate Q-room, but I don't like to see my quarantined animals get sick, either.

This thread is about the most bizarre I has had the misfortune to be involved in, especially when I've finally finished getting all the pieces together for my hoped for projects. If you all can help I would think that you would just out of a 'moral' sense if nothing else.

 

[critical bill]

I have no problems with Jen - as a matter of fact I sent her a very supportive email a few weeks ago when she was getting reamed on Kingsnake. I have no allegiances with Wyatt - I had a good transaction with him some time ago and I am aware of his issues that have arisen since then. My motive is about the virus. The only reason I keep posting is to find out more information (that is what the assumptions are there for) - that Jen lied repeatedly isn't my fault - that I wanted to get clarification on the lies isn't exactly uncalled for - that I bought animals from someone three years ago that turned out to be a scammer isn't the issue - I at least followed proper quarantine procedure and I didn't put my snakes in jeopardy. How am I supposed to show facts - I'm not the one that supposedly has a mutant virus running amok in my collection?

WTF is wrong with you? You don't have a problem with Jen, but yet you call her a liar, and then poke fun about her inexperience to spread this virus through improper quarantine procedures when that has already been covered, and then also try to make a funny about not having a mutant virus running through your collection like she does.

You are a sadistic moron that should marry that scumbag wyatt. The scumbag and the sadist.

 

[KelliH]

This thread is about the most bizarre I has had the misfortune to be involved in, especially when I've finally finished getting all the pieces together for my hoped for projects. If you all can help I would think that you would just out of a 'moral' sense if nothing else.

I didn't have to mention anything about it but my "moral" sense persuaded me to do so ;-)

Kelli, is this something that has just hit the "big" breeders and they're trying to contain it or was it acquired outside of a closed collection from import stock, or what?

I'm not the one to ask those questions, I am not a ball python breeder any more (thanks goodness). I am just friendly with a lot of them.

If anyone gives you a hard time about it, well, I at least, would back you up as secrecy is detrimental in this case. If I purchase an animal and it presents symptoms like the ones mentioned here, it would sure go a long way to recognise what the heck I'm dealing with. Yes, I have a separate Q-room, but I don't like to see my quarantined animals get sick, either.

My advice would be if you are going to buy a high end animal (really any animal for that matter), quarantine and test it the proper, professional way, don't be half ass about it and go throwing it into your racks. I believe Randal Berry explained quite well earlier in this thread the quarantine procedure they go through at the Little Rock Zoo where he is employed, they have a similar one at the Fort Worth Zoo where my husband works. I have nothing else to add.

 

[LakesideBoas]

Tosha...

If what you say is correct (and I am going to assume that it is, even though I know how to spell that word) and YOU knew about this virus and that "Big Breeders" have known about this virus, then why didn't anyone mention that they thought it could be this before, and why is everyone beating up Jen about it when it's obviously been discussed before???????

You say you are looking (grilling, digging and being generally abrasive) to Jen to post "proof" as you say it, about "This Virus". The one you say "Big Breeders" have heard about or have had at some point in their own collections. Why look to Jen for your answers? She's a hobbyist, like most of us, not someone one would consider a "Big Breeder". Why aren't you as diligent (fanatical, obsessive, sarcastic) with them? If anyone would have an answer for you it would be them, don'cha' think?

You say you want proof of what Jen is saying and her vet is saying, when just about everything you have posted is hearsay as well. I said it before and I'll repeat myself if necessary, just what is your issue with Jen? You are not dealing everyone a fair hand here at all and if you think I'm picking on you so be it. You can't have your cake and a fork and a knife and a napkin too. You want others to conform to YOUR set of "rules" posting here yet you aren't following YOUR OWN set of guidelines.

What was the word Mr.Rogers wanted the boys and girls to spell today? Hmmm, let me think...Oh Yeah! I got it! H-Y-P-O-C-R-I-T-E Can you spell that boys and girls? Good! I knew you could!

 

[critical bill]

SHE'S A SADIST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[SPJ]

Great. Just Great. Some new damn virus that kills snakes and I have a boa in QT right now. Thankfully she is down the hall, take a left, and go to the back of that room after leaving where my pythons are housed.

Now I'm going to be even more paranoid about my QT with this boa than I already was.

If something is out there and has already been identified, stop screwing around and let the rest of us know about it.

This keeping quiet crap needs to end.

Tosha, what the hell is it that you know?

 

[Pink Lady Exotics]

Or if you could please replay the message from the beginning where it should say Jen this is Dr. ??

The message was played from beginning to end. You can hear the end of the voicemail system right before it begins, followed by "Hey Jen...". He doesn't say "This is Dr. Gordon" because he would be the only person calling me about my snakes, and his number is on my caller ID on my cell phone, so I obviously know who he is. Every time he's ever called me, that is how he leaves messages. Feel free to call him and verify that he did indeed leave that voicemail, he will confirm it.

Not to split hairs - but the good doctor did say - "we don't know what we are dealing with" - he didn't even confirm it was in fact a virus. I'm assuming that by the time of the voicemail Jen had told him about the killer virus - so that is the way he was leaning.

The determination that is was most likely viral came from the first necropsy in his path reports -- far before this voicemail. Why would he completely rehash everything we have discussed over the past weeks when I have been talking to him just about every day? There is no need to repeat everything in a voicemail -- just the new info he wanted to share. And he did make a reference to it being viral -- he said "I did get a call from a pharmacist about an anti-viral that may help us". This is the pharmacist he had called on Friday but couldn't get ahold of before they closed. My vet is the one that has been coming to the conclusions -- not me. I'm not telling him about some "killer virus" -- he told ME that it is most-likely viral based on his analysis and that he is looking into what kind and what we can use to treat it (if anything). That is where I got MY INFO from.

I know this has nothing to do with the topic at hand but since she stated never buying from anyone in Wisconsin when she clearly did I think it is valid.

Thanks for reminding me, I had forgotton about him since I don't have any of the animals anymore. I edit my statement -- I haven't bought from anyone in Wisconsin aside from my first ball python and a few from Andre Gennaro that were resold. When I went back through all the animals I have ever owned, I didn't think about the group I got from Andre because they were sold to someone else within a matter of days -- and YES, before anyone gets all over me for anything else, the person that bought them was well aware that they had come from someone else just a few days prior.

 

[Pink Lady Exotics]

I saw this thread the other day and found her comments well interesting http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=106649
Jen I hope no one jumps on you about this , well other than for posting it where you did instead of here in the BOI. Anyone out that way that could give her a hand with this??
Randy

You just asked Corey about the price of pears in China -- so can I ask what this thread has to do with anything? I purchased these snakes back before this illness was determined to be a virus or anything more serious than a routine bacterial RI, and back when only the het clown was sick. At that point, my vet had told me it would be fine to continue my breeding and buying plans as long as the new arrivals were kept separate from everything else (and I don't know anyone else who stops buying and breeding just because one snake has an RI). Then I got screwed -- no snakes, no money back. Then this all came down as being a far more serious illness than originally thought, and more snakes came down with the virus. Does that not allow me to try to find help in rectifying the situation with that person? If she ever does send the animals (which I doubt), there are a few places I have lined up for them to go. So where is the problem or the "interesting" part in this?

 

[ravensgait]

Jen, did I say I had a problem with your buying those animals?? What I found interesting were some of your comments in that thread like these"" would rather stay off the BOI at this point because a particular someone will try to trash me for buying more snakes (despite it being weeks ago when this was all still being nailed as bacterial)."" and ""You know what, just delete this thread. I'm pretty much done here.""
This thread should have been brought here yet you feared to do that.

Another reason I mentioned and posted that link is for the reason you seem to have over looked IE ""Anyone out that way that could give her a hand with this??"" Seemed like you could use some help but were afraid to ask here in the BOI where that help would more likely be available..

Now I wont call you a liar because I don't think in this case you really have been but I do think that you have been less than forthcoming and your omissions keep coming up which doesn't help you any. Randy

 

[ravensgait]

Oh and By the way, I have NO personal issue with Jen, I'm not good friend's with Wyatt, nor am I a hypocrite. I am just telling it like it is folks, of course none of the big ball python breeders want anyone knowing of this! It would screw up their business and cause loss of sales. Just stop and think about it!

What really sucks is that you Kelli and others have to preface their comments IE
""""Oh and By the way, I have NO personal issue with Jen""" Hell I've done it as well by saying things like I'm not defending or supporting ETC ETC really sad that people have to do that here. Maybe we should add it to our Signatures lol . Hell I don't know either of these people nor do I keep Ball pythons I guess I just have an interest in the truth and in finding information .

Randy

 

[Pink Lady Exotics]

What have I been less than forthcoming about? Seriously? If you want to know something, flat out ask me, and I will flat out answer you, as I have this entire time. I have no reason to lie, I'm not gaining anything by lying to make this "swing in my direction". I have not asked Wyatt for a damn thing, nor do I want anything from him, so how would I benefit from lying? My purpose is to get this virus nailed down and prevent it from spreading, and prevent anyone else from having to deal with it with no information like I had to. I don't want to see anyone else's snakes die. If I save a few, then mine didn't die for no reason.

Have I forgotten things? Yep. I messed up the date that Dizzy died by one day because I referenced posts to find it and some of them were made on the night of the 11th and others were made in the earliest morning hours of the 12th. I forgot that I had a couple snakes from some kid in Wisconsin for a few days. Have I made mistakes? Yep. I already took full responsibility for my crappy quarantine, over and over and over and over and over again, every time it gets thrown in my face like it's some new piece of evidence or something. It spread farther than it should have because they were in the same room for 2 weeks, before I was able to figure out a way to separate them out of dire necessity. If it proves not to be airborne, then I don't know how it spread unless viruses actively crawl across carpet and walls to seek out a new host. They never shared any common tools, water, food, drinking sources, heat, racks, tubs, nothing. Maybe on my clothes? I dunno. That's what we're trying to figure out. So have I screwed up in those terms? Yep. Stress does that to you, and believe me, I have plenty of it. Maybe I shouldn't try to put so much on my plate at once so that I don't end up making mistakes like that. That is something I have to deal with on my own.

Why did I not bring it here on the BOI? Because I do not feel that it is a BOI issue until more time has elapsed and it becomes apparent that I just plain am not getting my money back or my snakes. The person is also a complete unknown in the hobby, she was a pet owner and nothing more. Nobody here would know her and she would never come here. I had originally wanted to see if anyone here was up in that area and could help by finding out what was going on with her, but after seeing how dilusional, uncomprehending, and vindictive people can be, I don't want anyone's help anymore. I'll figure it out for myself. If nothing comes of it, well, then I lost $267.

 

[ravensgait]

Jen you forgot those snakes you forgot the rescue animals you had this fall you forgot the animal with RI last spring you forgot to mention the male you brought in and put with your females soon after he arrived you forgot if the het showed symptoms 4 days or a week after you got her and I am sure I'm forgetting to mention something you say you forgot. Like I said not calling you a liar but dang you need to work on that memory.

So get a grip, no you haven't asked the guy for anything you just slammed his reputation without one single shred of proof and then get all pissy when we ask you to straighten out these things you forgot... Randy

 

[ravensgait]

Oh forgot to mention that that thread has far more reason to be posted on the BOI than your issues in this one.. Maybe if it had been posted here as more of a hey can I get some help with so and so! then people could see if they could contact so and so and low and behold it might get taken care of before you had to post SO and SO in WA. BAD GUY who stole my money..... Randy

 

[Pink Lady Exotics]

The clown that I brought in and started pairing with females came AFTER Dizzy and the het clown had gotten sick...so why would that have been relevant?

What about the rescues? They were pets owned by someone since they were babies, for 5 years. They were the only snakes these people had ever had, and they hadn't been sick in those 5 years. Considering how deadly this virus appears to be once it is contracted, don't you think they would have shown something in 5 years or in the months they were here at my house? They were malnourished and dehydrated -- that was it. No respiratory problems at all. They were also never with my collection -- yes, they were in my crappy quarantine on the other side of the room. But again, they were never sick, and they never made anyone else sick.

I didn't forget when the het developed symptoms -- I just had to double-check. I was off by 3 days.

I also didn't lie about the WC female -- I didn't think she was relevant at all to any of this and I had completely forgotten about her since she had only been here for 6 days and never was really that important to me. I had never dealt with her RI, I was working and didn't have a reptile vet so I didn't get to do anything about it. I gave her one shot of Tylan right before she died as a last ditch idea from someone else who deals with WC imports all the time. Her symptoms were far different than the ones these animals are exhibiting, hers were textbook bacterial RI according to the vet I talked to (major bubbles coming out of her nose and mouth, massive leakage of neon green mucous, and large amounts of pooled and smeared liquid from her mouth -- that has never happened with these animals), and she had had it before being shipped. That was also 7 months prior to any of this happening with the het clown. None of my animals had never been in the same rack, tubs, or anything that she had been in, and the snake she was shipped with never got sick, ate for me, had healthy babies, and is STILL doing well with the person I sold her to this summer. So how on Earth would she have mattered if she had never touched any of my animals, never touched anything they have been touching, and never made anyone else sick in the 7 months in between her death and the het clown showing up? Based on how rapidly this virus moves and kills, why didn't anyone show symptoms way sooner if it had come from the WC female? When I mentioned that to my vet, he said it was extremely far fetched and he doesn't know of any virus that can survive simply in air for 7 months (as that was the only common shared item left).