TW International Wyatt in Texas

[Dr Owens]

Here is the voicemail from my vet -- I had to hold my phone up to my webcam and do it as a video.

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v176/RavaFlava/?action=view&current=VetVoicemail.flv

I can't believe that people are trying to dispute the validity of this recording.

Not to split hairs - but the good doctor did say - "we don't know what we are dealing with" - he didn't even confirm it was in fact a virus. I'm assuming that by the time of the voicemail Jen had told him about the killer virus - so that is the way he was leaning.

Oh come on! You're either being intellectually dishonest, or your deliberately in denial about what he was saying in his message! To take that one part of a sentence out of context of the entire message, and then try to spin it into meaning something that it doesn't is nothing more than a backhanded way of lying. It's dishonest, pure and simple.

 

[Dr Owens]

Then I got this PM on another forum (name omitted):

And this e-mail from someone else (name omitted):

Jen,
I know that you've been taking a beating on here lately, and I'm sorry for having to give you warning points, but you should know that anonymous third party quotes like the ones you made earlier are strictly forbidden on the BOI...especially when they make accusations such as these. I am forced to temporarily delete your post until Rich has an opportunity to review it and make a decision as to which parts of it will be allowed to remain.

 

[Griz]

I can't believe that people are trying to dispute the validity of this recording.

Oh come on! You're either being intellectually dishonest, or your deliberately in denial about what he was saying in his message! To take that one part of a sentence out of context of the entire message, and then try to spin it into meaning something that it doesn't is nothing more than a backhanded way of lying. It's dishonest, pure and simple.

What Doc? You mean that Tosha is not the queen of altruism? You mean she's being less then forthcoming? Surely you jest? How pathetic.......

Griz

 

[HerpOly]

A lot of breeders will not tell the truth about getting something as relatively harmless as snake mites, but people can bring them in on their clothes from walking around at a show. Do you think any breeders that depend on sales for their income are going to offer solid proof of this virus? No one knows if what Jen has is related to deaths in other collections. Jumping on people about what they have heard is not helpful. If this virus came from Wyatt's snake and infected another snake so bad the healthy snake showed signs of the virus in one day of being in same room of the carrier snake, a lot of collections will be in serious trouble. Energy will be best spent finding out what this is exactly, and finding a cure. The source of the virus has not even been proven. Did it come from Africa, feeder rodents, Asian pythons or what ever? Shooting the messenger is counter productive.

 

[deborahbroadus]

He wasn't threatening you, he was just stating a fact. I am one of those people he speaks of that wouldn't buy from someone who knowingly supports a scumbag.

Anyone else care to add their name after mine so that this shmuck understands that we just don't talk the talk around here but that we actually walk the walk?

Anyone?

Mine.

 

[Wyatt]

Let me just remind you all about the email that I was sent of the 29th of September 2007.

"Jennifer Harrison" <[email protected]> Add to Address Book Add Mobile Alert
To: "TW Inter" <[email protected]>
Subject: Het Clown Female
Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2007 21:55:39 -0500
Hi Wyatt -- Sorry, I forgot to call this morning. I had a busy day and it totally slipped my mind until just now. Not sure if it's too late, so I'm e-mailing instead of calling.

The female is doing well, she has no signs of RI at all, is very active, but I think she's still stressed as she's being really aggressive and biting at any movement in the room (while doing the tail wag too). Or this is just her personality showing. LOL! I was curious as to perhaps she was hungry and that's why she was being so evil, so dropped a small weaned rat in with her and immediately turned the light off and left the room. I peeked in there 5 minutes later, and she was in the middle of swallowing it. So she can't be too upset if she's willing to eat!

I'm really happy that that 3-day drama had a happy ending, and am really glad I chose to do business with you again. She's a beautiful snake in great condition, and I saved the pictures of her parents so I can properly choose a clown male to go with her based on her dad's looks. I thought I had one picked out, but now I was shown a different one and am having a tough time choosing. This project is huge for me this year, it's basically my stepping stone into serious breeding since last year was all dinking projects. I'm excited!

Thanks again!

 

[ToshaMc]

Let me clear my record before I leave -

Jen - I truely am sorry that you've lost your animals - if it is in fact what has the virus that the others had - you'll likely end up losing or culling the entire collection - no one should have to go through that and my heart does go out to you. That being said - I do not apologize for my inquiry - I do feel that you have been less than honest about a lot of things - for whatever reason - your stories just don't jell - but I'm done trying to find out the facts from this thread - I've gotten what I need elsewhere. I wish you strength and the best of luck with what you have to go through.


For everyone else - Since I was unable to get any real information from Jen - I decided the better way to approach finding out about this thing would be to ask people that would know. The information was fairly consistent but as I said all hearsay. As I've mentioned a few times I still have nothing tangible - but since you are all so insistent on hearing my hearsay here it is:

No body really knows what this is or where it came from - hell they aren't even sure if all the incidents are related and they are only talking about in small circles. There are theories ranging from the virus being imported to it possibly being environmental. If anyone has any real solid evidence they aren't talking. I've gotten the impression that very few really care to delve further into this - not sure care is the right word but it does appear that sweeping it under the rug is the general consensus.

It has been in several collections - with the most recent occurrences being primarily back east.

This isn't new - it's been here at least a few years if not quite a while - again this is based on people theories involving collection losses.

This is not a Ball Python only thing.


As you can see I'm not all hiding valuable information - like you all seem to think - and all this hearsay that's I've received within the last couple of days. Feel free to discount all of it.

At this point - I have provided my vet with Dr. Gordons contact information in the hopes that Dr. Gordon will extend a professional courtesy and provide what has been found thus far. That was three days ago and we haven't heard back from him. I am also fortunate to have a microbiologist in the family that may be willing to put some time into this if need be - but I need to get some real info on the virus before I can proceed in that direction. If I get some info on the virus I will post it on Kingsnake.

In the meantime you may want to remember:

"There is no such thing as a trusted source".

You can shoot the messengers - if you think that there is going to be any breeder that is going to publicly admit to this issue - you are either stupid, naive or new here.

 

[snake5007]

Let me just remind you all about the email that I was sent of the 29th of September 2007.

"Jennifer Harrison" <[email protected]> Add to Address Book Add Mobile Alert
To: "TW Inter" <[email protected]>
Subject: Het Clown Female
Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2007 21:55:39 -0500
Hi Wyatt -- Sorry, I forgot to call this morning. I had a busy day and it totally slipped my mind until just now. Not sure if it's too late, so I'm e-mailing instead of calling.

The female is doing well, she has no signs of RI at all, is very active, but I think she's still stressed as she's being really aggressive and biting at any movement in the room (while doing the tail wag too). Or this is just her personality showing. LOL! I was curious as to perhaps she was hungry and that's why she was being so evil, so dropped a small weaned rat in with her and immediately turned the light off and left the room. I peeked in there 5 minutes later, and she was in the middle of swallowing it. So she can't be too upset if she's willing to eat!

I'm really happy that that 3-day drama had a happy ending, and am really glad I chose to do business with you again. She's a beautiful snake in great condition, and I saved the pictures of her parents so I can properly choose a clown male to go with her based on her dad's looks. I thought I had one picked out, but now I was shown a different one and am having a tough time choosing. This project is huge for me this year, it's basically my stepping stone into serious breeding since last year was all dinking projects. I'm excited!

Thanks again!

Still trying to convince people that you're not to blame, eh Wyatt? Jen's already accepted that, so why don't you just focus on making your other issues right, instead of trying to rub Jen's face in it?

 

[snake5007]

You can shoot the messengers - if you think that there is going to be any breeder that is going to publicly admit to this issue - you are either stupid, naive or new here.

Well, this is a public forum and Jen IS a breeder.

 

[Wilomn]

You can shoot the messengers - if you think that there is going to be any breeder that is going to publicly admit to this issue - you are either stupid, naive or new here.

Or HONEST tasha, or honest. Isn't it odd how that simple little word is one you seem to have so little to do with.

Often those who are foreign to a particular thing, like being honest even when it hurts, ASSume that others will react exactly the same way.

IF your implication that you are leaving is not merely an implication, see ya glad I don't have to be ya, but why not address the issue YOU have brought up?

How about warnig all the newbs YOU claim to care so much about? How about protecting people who already have considerable time and money in thier collections by TELLING THEM WHO YOU THINK HAS this virus?

Why be such a wishy washy rumorwhore? Put some meat on your statements instead of just scaring the kids with scary stories.

Something so simple as, "I was told, and I can't say by whom but I believe them, that blank and blank and blank have all had serious dieoffs in the last couple of years and I'd be leary of purchasing from them."

Afterall, YOU are the one who has this information, why not help those you CLAIM to care so much for?

 

[deborahbroadus]

That's it! I have heard enough myself that I know this is one buyer that has put a hold on purchasing any other BPs and boids for an undetermined amount of time. I, personally, am putting a lock on my 60+ collection. No more animals will cross my threshold (any breeding I do will be for my own acquisition basically..but I retain the right to sell or give away any that I so desire..if there are any buyers after this mess).

The reason for my decision is: Why risk buying anymore animals when some known scammers who are selling sick animals still have breeders buying from them? (and those breeders may sell the animal after having it only one or two days.) Thus If no one knows about a disease that big breeders are talking about but no one can mention names of those breeders that everyone knows about...(see where I am going with this?)

What I am "seeing" is: As the smaller breeders amass collections trying to start their own business (everyone has to start somewhere) and those collections get killed off because they aren't "big" enough to be able to afford 2 or 3 facilities..I can see how this could possibly end....

Imo, anyone that has been afraid that this news getting out would hurt the BP trade..guess what, it's hurt. What would have helped the BP trade (and any other affected boids/reptiles) is/was transparency and honesty. The way this should have been handled was to let buyers know incidents besides IBD can happen, where it orginates, symptoms and how to help the boids and/or prevent the spread of this virus (other than qt). Shucks..we know dogs get heartworms, cancer, etc and we still buy dogs!

*if this isn't very coherent..I am sorry.

 

[critical bill]

*if this isn't very coherent..I am sorry.

I had three martinis and six olives for lunch and I understood you fine. That could be a good thing or a bad thing depending on how you look at it.

 

[Jim O]

I had three martinis and six olives for lunch...

What was the purpose of the olives?

 

[critical bill]

What was the purpose of the olives?

LOL. I'm feeling so good that I cant remember.

 

[ravensgait]

""What was the purpose of the olives? """ Jim they help hold the glass down and well add a little color to an otherwise colorless drink..

Deborah, that seems a bit excessive to me but I can understand where your coming from. Think about it IBD has been out there for a while now and I can't see this new virus being as bad maybe close but not as bad and you didn't shut down because of IBD so why now?? Oh and it was a little difficult to follow, guess I should have had a couple drinks first

 

[WebSlave]

Jen,
I know that you've been taking a beating on here lately, and I'm sorry for having to give you warning points, but you should know that anonymous third party quotes like the ones you made earlier are strictly forbidden on the BOI...especially when they make accusations such as these. I am forced to temporarily delete your post until Rich has an opportunity to review it and make a decision as to which parts of it will be allowed to remain.

The "name omitted" makes those quotes obviously anonymous third party quotes, and as such, the post is subject to deletion. There is no ownership to those statements being made in that post.

Editing posts is not really an option, for legal reasons, so the entire post has to stay gone.

Sorry, but I doubt anyone doesn't understand the reasoning behind this rule here.

 

[Scramblermike]

My Sick Snakes

Well,
Last time I posted I was apologizing to Wyatt about how this BOI post dragged his name through the crap. I thought that my snake I bought from him was healthy and my other two were getting better. I have continued soaking them daily and giving them the Baytril and Fortaz. But I have now run out of Fortaz. And all three are displaying the RI signs again. So somebody tell me another name for Fortaz please. My local vet refilled my Baytril for me since I showed him where I got my meds from Scott Stahl. However he did not know what Fortaz was, and I am wondering if there is something else they call Fortaz in the Dog or Cat world? Any help would be appreciated I really want to get everybody healthy. Thanks Mike

 

[hhmoore]

Deb, I understand what you are saying...but some are acting like this is some new thing that is now being hidden. In all honesty, I had heard that some breeders/dealers were experiencing big losses to a "killer RI virus" a couple years ago - and we all know I am not in the BP loop. Frankly, at this point, I wish I had been more interested...if only for the sake of knowing the details now.

 

[critical bill]

Well,
Last time I posted I was apologizing to Wyatt about how this BOI post dragged his name through the crap. I thought that my snake I bought from him was healthy and my other two were getting better. I have continued soaking them daily and giving them the Baytril and Fortaz. But I have now run out of Fortaz. And all three are displaying the RI signs again. So somebody tell me another name for Fortaz please. My local vet refilled my Baytril for me since I showed him where I got my meds from Scott Stahl. However he did not know what Fortaz was, and I am wondering if there is something else they call Fortaz in the Dog or Cat world? Any help would be appreciated I really want to get everybody healthy. Thanks Mike

Why would you want to put them on Baytril & Fortaz again when obviously that didn't work the first time around? I mean if they all got well and now they are sick again it might just be something more serious like the virus thats being discussed.

 

[Gib]

IM like Harald I heard about this a few years ago...I always thought it was pretty much common knowledge never knew it was hush hush or some kind of weird dirty secret...