Inquiry Why All The Hate Toward Reptiles By Mack?

[Tim Turner]

I'm a newbie here, but have been following this story with interest. As a pet owner (and hunter and fisherman) I have a general bias is against PETA, and I know nothing (good nor bad) about Reptiles by Mack.

The potential problem I see at any large wholesaler is the quality of employees which they can afford. I see in an online ad at http://www.indeed.com/viewjob?jk=64f623cb77a14ee4&tk=1adjgqucr1ags4vl&from=company for an Animal Care Technician at Reptiles by Mack that they are paying "Up to $10.10 per hour with easily achievable attendance bonus." I just don't see many caring competent hard-working people being willing to work for such low pay even if they love animals.

 

[rodneynboalich]

Hey webslave go ahead and ignore the whole Jon mack helped pijac sellout his own state...oh wait you already did ignore all that....

OK now that I brought it up go ahead and make an excuse for mack.....say something like we'll if pijac and mack wouldn't have supported regulations and bans it would have been so much worse....because have people private property taken by the state and in this case it's live animals..and those animals are killed by the state..

Really does it get worse then that

 

[rodneynboalich]

The thing that gets me is people on here saying that the whole Peta was a total misrepresentation of the facility ...it's a wholesaler with 50 employees that's basically a reptile puppy mill....of corse you are going to have lots of dead animals sick animals injured animals and so on....

There's no way possible to properly care for animals in a factory farming like situation....that's why I don't think Peta spies had to stage much of anything....

You know people don't like to thing about where there stuff comes from...there designer clothing from slave labor..or there meat from the slaughter house....both are forms of mass production and both have to sacrifice ethical standards to meet production...

Do you people really think a reptile puppy mill is any different.....

 

[rodneynboalich]

Maybe if some cobras get loose in the rbm facility instead of those glue traps they can get venom hunter brain barczyk to come find them..

That way the world can see the underbelly of factory farming reptiles and at the same time give the government more of a reason to push for a national ban on hots...see we could kill two birds with one stone...and some anti venomous legislation would do well...cause you know pijac and Jon mack would support it...just like he did in his own state

 

[rodneynboalich]

And by the way reptiles went even being looked at for sb310 until pijac and usark showed and supported regulating them...just ask polly Britton

 

[rodneynboalich]

I'm a newbie here, but have been following this story with interest. As a pet owner (and hunter and fisherman) I have a general bias is against PETA, and I know nothing (good nor bad) about Reptiles by Mack.

The potential problem I see at any large wholesaler is the quality of employees which they can afford. I see in an online ad at http://www.indeed.com/viewjob?jk=64f623cb77a14ee4&tk=1adjgqucr1ags4vl&from=company for an Animal Care Technician at Reptiles by Mack that they are paying "Up to $10.10 per hour with easily achievable attendance bonus." I just don't see many caring competent hard-working people being willing to work for such low pay even if they love animals.

Haha I like how skills /qualifications number 1 is no experience necessary..
So just did those sneaky Peta spies manage to infiltrate reptiles by Mack...

 

[Dennis Hultman]

Your buying in to the propaganda put out there by corporate, industrial animal agriculture, fcatory farms, big box pet stores, etc. Dont be a dupe!

Yeah, No! There is a big difference between animal welfare groups and animal rights groups. Any person who is involved with animal husbandry, breeding of any kind of animals needs to know the difference. Peta is a animal rights group and isn't a friend to any type of animal farming, animal breeding period.

It isn't propaganda it is a known fact put out by them. Any person who would support Peta with it is just propaganda has no business in this hobby supporting organization that would end it completely.

You don't be a "dupe" and put out BS that it is just corporations and factory farms. That is utter crap.

Family farmers know. Natural pasture raised animal farmers know, fishermen, hunters, animal breeders, most hobbyist know that what you just stated was garbage.

Thankfully most on this website know as well.
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=102407

Most here know the difference and you will be hard-pressed to find people who don't support animal welfare and animal welfare groups here.

 

[Dennis Hultman]

Thankfully most on this website know as well.
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=102407

---------------------------

Then you need to learn the difference between Animal Rights and Animal Welfare groups, because by definition animal rights groups are, without exception, our enemies.

For someone to honestly think that "it really depends on which organization we're speaking of" suggests that to them some of the AR groups would fit in the friend category and others would be foes, so they are unable to lump them together.
Even this mindset demonstrates a sad lack of knowledge on the subject matter and is a dangerous way of looking at the issue.
As Dennis said, they obviously haven't bothered to learn exactly what an AR group is. The simple truth is a friend of herp keepers cannot be an AR activist group, the two are mutually exclusive by definition.

It's been a nice little trick by the AR camp to condition the general public to consider Animal Rights and Animal Welfare to be interchangeable. If they can make people think they are one large movement, then the AR people begin to look a little less fanatical.
For those who apparently do not know, the basic tenet of the Animal Rights movement is to completely abolish the use of animals by people for ANY purpose. This means food, clothing, work animals (such as guide dogs, or police dogs), medical research, and yes PETS TOO. They believe that humans are little more than a parasite on this planet and we should attempt to exist without interaction with animals whether it be for necessity or pleasure.

Animal Welfare groups on the other hand want to see animals treated humanely in whatever means that humans use them. This means humane treatment of your pets, and livestock. Often they are against sport hunting, but not necessarily hunting for food. Similarly with medical research, they desire for the animals to be treated as humanely as possible, but they are not against the much needed animal testing that is normally required in the process of finding new cures for human illnesses.
There is of course some variance between groups on the animal welfare side, but the AR viewpoint is pretty much set in stone, that is to say NO using animals for ANY purpose whatsoever.

I have talked to people who did keep reptiles as pets who also proudly admitted the fact they were a contributor to Peta. This is one of the worst forms of ignorance on the whole animal rights subject. To actually donate money to a group of people whose stated goal is to eliminate your ability to participate in the hobby you enjoy. To not only not fight against them to stop their agenda, but to actually pay them to take away your ability to engage in an enjoyable hobby.
It's just this sort of ignorant mindset, just as with the people who voted that even some of the AR groups might be our friends, that must be eliminated from our ranks. People have to become educated enough to know who is their enemy, and you can paint with a wide brush when talking about Animal Rights groups, they are ALL our enemies, without exception.

 

[WebSlave]

Blah blah....

Defend him like you use to defend Andrew Wyatt...it's what is expected from you.....
Seriously look at your own logic...you are really grasping at straws here...to say it only takes one Peta spy over a long time to do a video like that....
Well I'm guessing rbm knows who it was...so why don't they post all that information....like hire and fire dates....so we can put your theory to the test..

I suppose it was that same one Peta spy that implemented the glue tapes for those lizards too...right webslave. ...it was the Peta spy that came up with the glue trap idea and then hung them up all over the place....since rbm is so responsible I'm sure there isn't loose lizards running around so that means that one Peta spy stuck all those lizards to those glue traps when no one was looking. ..

Right is that what happened....all those caring rbm employees didn't know a thing about any of it....

Oh, "blah, blah", is it? Seems to me that is more your forte, Mr. Boalich.

You are claiming here that I have in some manner defended Adrew Wyatt. I do not believe you are making a truthful statement. So how about proving that claim? Or would you rather THAT be the "blah, blah" of which you speak? From what I can recall, I haven't said much of anything about Andrew Wyatt, EVER, and this is all I can find as a direct quote from me:

I don't know Wyatt personally, and have no opinion about him (much less KNOW the truth) nor place a lot of stock in any third party hearsay information and opinions that others have provided.

As for you being banned from here, well perhaps it is not exactly your message, but how you are trying to deliver it. Now THAT, yes, I (and others) have expressed opinions about in the past, which resulted in your being banned. But if you want to continue that sort of discussion, THIS is not the thread for that, and trying to take the thread off topic in that direction will result in your getting even more infractions. I do hope you have wizened up in the past 2 years.

So if you can find evidence to support your claim, please do so.

But heck, if you would rather give me a good reason to ban you again, heck, have at it. I'm game.

And yes I am saying that it would only take one person with a hidden camera and enough time at any substantial outfit handling large amounts of animals to create such a video. What exactly do YOU think would be required for such a task? A mission impossible task force, perhaps, with a truck load of technological wonders like you see on TV?

As for glue traps, heck, this used to be a suggested method offered to people to catch escapees of all sorts. All it takes is some baby oil or mineral oil to get them free of the glue. Perhaps that is what was done after the videos were captured for the expose. But we don't know that, now do we? Perhaps it was the person who took the video who was tasked with that job. Looks to me that RBM had a load of anoles escape on them. They are not native to Ohio, btw. So why did RBM use them, and what was the disposition of the lizards on them? Apparently we don't know and it appears people are just jumping to conclusions that PETA hopes you all will.

Honestly, I don't even know why RBM would have anoles at their facility. They certainly can't be enough of a high ticket sale item to mess with. So my thinking is that there is a lot more behind that incident than we are aware of. But yeah, "blah blah" me if you must for choosing to give someone the benefit of the doubt and instead doubting the messenger, rather than just jerking in the preferred direction when PETA gives a tug to the hoped for ring in my nose.

Heck for that matter, go to Amazon.com and check out glue traps yourself -> http://www.amazon.com/s/?ie=UTF8&ke...vptwo=&hvqmt=b&hvdev=c&ref=pd_sl_6ve42fs0te_b

They seem to be a pretty popular item. Personally I used them to catch errant mice in the rodent building quite often. They are pretty effective at that. Now if I had had 100 or so anoles escape in my building and really needed to catch them, I can't say I wouldn't try the glue trap trick myself. From what I understand they are effective, and the lizards can be removed from the glue without being any the worse for wear and tear. Will some die? Perhaps. But probably a lot less than the number that would dehydrate and die just being left to run loose in the building with no source of water.

So if you have something other than your own brand of "blah, blah" to offer here Rodney, have at it. But please try to use your brain to generate something of a logical nature with some actual facts instead of just loading up with emotional blah blah based on your own brand of pseudo logic and reality interpretation.

 

[MrTPlush]

Honestly, I don't even know why RBM would have anoles at their facility. They certainly can't be enough of a high ticket sale item to mess with.

First thought(since they sell to chain pet stores) is that they ship them with normal bigger ticket items. Seems like those pet stores go through those cheap little lizards like candy. I imagine if you are selling enough they are pretty darn profitable.

My next thought was instead of using glue traps...I don't know...maybe one should have better security measures in place? Of course we don't know how long it took to get so many on that trap. Could have been a month which then I guess wouldn't be too bad if you have hundreds...or maybe it took a couple days for it to fill up. I guess I just don't see your argument, "Well I bet less died then if we just let them run around the facility." You really shouldn't be needing glue traps in the first place.

 

[leftycrane]

And by the way reptiles went even being looked at for sb310 until pijac and usark showed and supported regulating them...just ask polly Britton

I honestly don't even waste my time reading your comments because you just keep spewing the same thing about RBM and Pijac and spamming this thread with your obvious biased thoughts against them. You just always manage to come across ignorant and then attack Rich. Go ahead and get yourself banned. You seem to be working towards that again anyway.

 

[rodneynboalich]

I honestly don't even waste my time reading your comments because you just keep spewing the same thing about RBM and Pijac and spamming this thread with your obvious biased thoughts against them. You just always manage to come across ignorant and then attack Rich. Go ahead and get yourself banned. You seem to be working towards that again anyway.

OK thanks for not reading what I said and then having a problem with what I said which you didn't read. And yet quoted me but you know it's all wrong even though you didn't read it..

 

[rodneynboalich]

Oh, "blah, blah", is it? Seems to me that is more your forte, Mr. Boalich.

You are claiming here that I have in some manner defended Adrew Wyatt. I do not believe you are making a truthful statement. So how about proving that claim? Or would you rather THAT be the "blah, blah" of which you speak? From what I can recall, I haven't said much of anything about Andrew Wyatt, EVER, and this is all I can find as a direct quote from me:



So if you can find evidence to support your claim, please do so.

But heck, if you would rather give me a good reason to ban you again, heck, have at it. I'm game.

And yes I am saying that it would only take one person with a hidden camera and enough time at any substantial outfit handling large amounts of animals to create such a video. What exactly do YOU think would be required for such a task? A mission impossible task force, perhaps, with a truck load of technological wonders like you see on TV?

As for glue traps, heck, this used to be a suggested method offered to people to catch escapees of all sorts. All it takes is some baby oil or mineral oil to get them free of the glue. Perhaps that is what was done after the videos were captured for the expose. But we don't know that, now do we? Perhaps it was the person who took the video who was tasked with that job. Looks to me that RBM had a load of anoles escape on them. They are not native to Ohio, btw. So why did RBM use them, and what was the disposition of the lizards on them? Apparently we don't know and it appears people are just jumping to conclusions that PETA hopes you all will.

Honestly, I don't even know why RBM would have anoles at their facility. They certainly can't be enough of a high ticket sale item to mess with. So my thinking is that there is a lot more behind that incident than we are aware of. But yeah, "blah blah" me if you must for choosing to give someone the benefit of the doubt and instead doubting the messenger, rather than just jerking in the preferred direction when PETA gives a tug to the hoped for ring in my nose.

Heck for that matter, go to Amazon.com and check out glue traps yourself -> http://www.amazon.com/s/?ie=UTF8&ke...vptwo=&hvqmt=b&hvdev=c&ref=pd_sl_6ve42fs0te_b

They seem to be a pretty popular item. Personally I used them to catch errant mice in the rodent building quite often. They are pretty effective at that. Now if I had had 100 or so anoles escape in my building and really needed to catch them, I can't say I wouldn't try the glue trap trick myself. From what I understand they are effective, and the lizards can be removed from the glue without being any the worse for wear and tear. Will some die? Perhaps. But probably a lot less than the number that would dehydrate and die just being left to run loose in the building with no source of water.

So if you have something other than your own brand of "blah, blah" to offer here Rodney, have at it. But please try to use your brain to generate something of a logical nature with some actual facts instead of just loading up with emotional blah blah based on your own brand of pseudo logic and reality interpretation.

I love how you will make up any excuse to please the big names in the industry....I'm sure if it was my facility that Peta showed with animals like that you would be on here making excuses for me right...

And ban me for what...it's your site ban if you want to...you can you don't need me to break the rules to do it

And you and your cronies use to defend Wyatt all the time go look at the old threads...especially usark. You guys are going to ride that sinking ship right to the bottom of the ocean because you wouldn't want to offend bagnal and the gang....

 

[dajuice]

I love how you will make up any excuse to please the big names in the industry....I'm sure if it was my facility that Peta showed with animals like that you would be on here making excuses for me right...

And ban me for what...it's your site ban if you want to...you can you don't need me to break the rules to do it

And you and your cronies use to defend Wyatt all the time go look at the old threads...especially usark. You guys are going to ride that sinking ship right to the bottom of the ocean because you wouldn't want to offend bagnal and the gang....

I thought this was about BEN and his situation which you are clearly biased against, why all this other none sense that has absolutely nothing to do with the topic of the thread?

 

[dajuice]

I thought this was about BEN and his situation which you are clearly biased against, why all this other none sense that has absolutely nothing to do with the topic of the thread?

Meant to type RBM, not been. Spell check error.

 

[CwnAnnwn]

And you and your cronies use to defend Wyatt all the time go look at the old threads...especially usark. You guys are going to ride that sinking ship right to the bottom of the ocean because you wouldn't want to offend bagnal and the gang....

Wait...I am just a crone? I was promised lead minion status if I support him!!!!

Mr. Zuchowski if I am not promoted to full lead minion, I am suing. Or at least toadie. I will settle for mid level toadie.

Mr. Boalich, I answered your questions. I posted why you are wrong. You decided to ignore me. I understand, because we do have a history.

Once again.

SB 310 was going to ban all reptiles. USARK and PIJAC got it changed to just venous and snakes larger then 12 feet. They tried their best to get rid of the whole bill. But since that was not going to happen, they negotiated for the best deal they could get.

Your argument that they should have not done that is like saying that you should not evacuate a school bus stuck on railroad track if you can not save the whole bus. Let the children die if you can not save some the bus.

 

[EdwardK]

They seem to be a pretty popular item. Personally I used them to catch errant mice in the rodent building quite often. They are pretty effective at that. Now if I had had 100 or so anoles escape in my building and really needed to catch them, I can't say I wouldn't try the glue trap trick myself. From what I understand they are effective, and the lizards can be removed from the glue without being any the worse for wear and tear. Will some die? Perhaps. But probably a lot less than the number that would dehydrate and die just being left to run loose in the building with no source of water.

Just a point to build on the glueboard argument. Glueboards are still used fairly routinely for capture and release studies in lizards. So any argument about the glueboards would need to show that the anoles were allowed to stay stuck to the boards until they died. It is not unreasonable for the glueboards to have been used to recover the lizards.
Any other claims about the glue boards is simply an attempt to appeal to emotion unless more information is provided.
For example of a study using glue boards see
http://homepage.univie.ac.at/walter.hoedl/Ellinger_etal_JHerpet_2001.pdf
Ellinger, Norbert, et al. "Habitat use and activity patterns of the neotropical arboreal lizard Tropidurus (= Uracentron) azureus werneri (Tropiduridae)." Journal of Herpetology (2001): 395-402.

some comments

Ed

 

[EdwardK]

I love how you will make up any excuse to please the big names in the industry....I'm sure if it was my facility that Peta showed with animals like that you would be on here making excuses for me right...

You do realize that you are deflecting the requests for information to support your point?
Either you can provide the information or you cannot, its one or the other. Refusing to supply proof is a tacit statement that the proof does not exist.

And you and your cronies use to defend Wyatt all the time go look at the old threads...especially usark. You guys are going to ride that sinking ship right to the bottom of the ocean because you wouldn't want to offend bagnal and the gang....

Accusations instead of supplying proof are a strong indication that you cannot provide the evidence to support your argument above. Either put up the information or accept the fact that you cannot simply accuse your way out of the challenge.

With your unsupported accusations against RBM, your actually presenting support for the opposite position by making yourself an unreliable source of information ...

Either put up the support or figure out an argument that doesn't make you appear to be a crazed fanatic.

some comments

Ed

 

[Reptiles By Mack]

​Thank you for your support and patience while we are working through these PETA allegations. We have posted an update today.

http://www.reptilesbymack.com/reptile-health-and-care.aspx

 

[Dennis Hultman]

I love how you will make up any excuse to please the big names in the industry....

Regardless of any individual's point of view about this particular incident that is the second biggest BS statement on this thread. The bit about Peta being the first.

I lost count over the last what about 14, 15 years how many well known "big names" huffed and puffed off this site because someone dared to make a thread about them and this site wouldn't delete it and not everyone posting would defend them. That for some reason someone thought if they advertised here they should have some special privilege. That is a load of crap Rodney.

Your singular issue with certain organizations is your beef and anytime someone states something about any of the participants in those organizations that doesn't damage them or isn't negative, you strike out.

Anyone who has been on this site any length of time knows Rich doesn't cater to "big names" about anything. One just has to look at the history of this site.

Rich can't win.

One thread will go on and on about how he lets everyone post what they want and how unfair this site is to give people the ability express their opinions as they do. Another words, that he doesn't bow to pressure to protect those "big names" and have them hang around, pay for banner ads and advertise.

Then you have people like you that don't like a individual opinion of another on a particular topic that somehow leads to the claims the site protects or tries to please "big names"? What a load!

You know how many advertisers here that left because he wouldn't do just that over the years? I have a long list.