Carolina Reptile Exchange, selling Pieds

David Reid · Jul 1, 2006

Here is what bothers me...

We have seen these ads for how many years now, offering 100% Het Pieds? The newest ad says visual pied x normal females....now if I was producing enough Het Pied females to sell all the ones they have sold, I would be breeding Pied x Het Pied, and would have long been past breeding Pied x normal.

Dave

pardalis · Jul 1, 2006

Your kidding.........Right?

MikeAnthony · Jul 2, 2006

santoury said:
Hello Nobody has seemed to show any proof that these 100 percent hets are NOT in fact hets at all. Nobody seems able to say "No, none of my hets produced homozygous animals"

See post #306 for your answer.

critical bill · Jul 2, 2006

santoury said:
I have in front of me the paperwork

You can make some great paper airplanes. I wish I had some extra paper.

Dennis Hultman · Jul 2, 2006

santoury said:
Hello
My name is Jude Platteborze. I have purchased 1.3 het albino and 1.2 het pied from Carolina Reptile Exchange. Would somebody kindly explain what "HCE" is, if it's not the same thing. I also want to know if this truly is a scam? Nobody has seemed to show any proof that these 100 percent hets are NOT in fact hets at all. Nobody seems able to say "No, none of my hets produced homozygous animals" I have in front of me the paperwork showing the photos of the father, It also says "genetics guaranteed for life" This definitely doesn't sound like a scammer. Feel free to email me at [email protected]
Thank you

cahrens · Jul 2, 2006

Hey Jude,
How old are the animals you have from them? Are they close to breeding? When did you buy them? Did you get them from HCE or CRE? Paperwork with the animals doesn't really mean much if the seller is scamming. HCE was the name that Harry Eisenmann sold reptiles under although he was already dead at the time. Apparently, Harry's son Bruce(who also seems to go by Noah) was doing some shady deals under his dead fathers name and HCE. That's what I'm getting out of this thread anyway. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong. What I don't understand is why people with hets from them that are breeding size haven't posted. In the beginning of this thread, back in 2003, there were people with hets saying that when they bred them they would post the results but they aren't posting them(with the exception of Jodi. Thanks Jodi!). Where are all these hets now? -Chris

The BoidSmith · Jul 2, 2006

Furthermore, once the Harry Eisenman “affair” was discovered they new persona appeared in the scene that will guarantee their heteros: David Hanners (“The Boid Breeder”). Oddly enough no one has ever heard of him and no one know where he lives. Just imagine yourself having the need to claim from someone you never met, never saw pictures off, you don’t have his contact info, etc. etc. If it’s difficult to now locate and bring to justice TSE’s Chris Johnson just imagine trying to do it with Mr. Hanners? You might even have a better chance with a guarantee from the late Harry Eisenmann as at least there’s family left behind. Nevertheless in “his” last post in this forum (long after he had passed away) ‘he” clearly stated that “his business” was in no way associated with that of “his” son Bruce. Yes, you are right. No one has proven their animals are not heteros, but no one has been able to prove the opposite. There is enough proof though of a long history of irregularities starting probably with “Digital Reptiles”. Have you by any chance read the guarantee spelled out in their website?

Regards

santoury · Jul 2, 2006

My animals are 06 babies. I don't check the BOI very frequently because I haven't had the need to. I noticed one about the CRE, and decided to take a closer look because I had *already* bought hets from them. What I don't get is, why the fuss between HCE, and CRE? Is one of them bad, and the other good?
To the earlier post - Yeah, where are all the people who must have hets from them? There would have been more than 1-2 clutches by now. The paperwork provided by CRE with the photo of the albino father, etc. are pretty convincing.
So far, nobody has been able to say "No, these are not hets." I am sorry that some of you got ticky imports. Mine came in good and healthy, so that is not my concern. My concern is whether or not these truly are hets, or normals sold off as hets.
How many of you have CRE hets?
In a nutshell, please clarify the whole "HCE / CRE" issue, and of the many people who must have bought hets, how many have had clutches with 100 percent normals? Only one? a het to het breeding does not guarantee a homozygous animal.
I also wonder, why is there even controversy that CRE is NOT selling hets as they say? Somebody said something about them producing hets for many years, without morphs being sold. From what I've seen, there are a lot of people with morphs, and they are never sold, or never advertised.
I am not refuting, or supporting CRE, just want to get more facts.
Thanks

santoury · Jul 2, 2006

One more thing
I wanted to re-state something. Several people have suggested I do some more reading in this thread, and I have... It seems that lots of people had bad deals, or got some sick animals, etc... My experience was GOOD in this sense. My animals arrived in great condition and are already eating after 4 days. It is the het question that I'm most curious about. Where are all the hets from them? Also, what's the deal with CRE vs HCE? Thanks

critical bill · Jul 2, 2006

santoury said:
Where are all the hets from them?

Dumped as normals...more than likely I would imagine.

pardalis · Jul 2, 2006

Exactly chuck, and unfortunately there are a lot of people that do not know this board exists or that are too embarrassed to admit they were screwed by CRE.

critical bill · Jul 3, 2006

Yeah...its pretty obvious...because not only has anyone come forward to say anything bad but no one has come forward to say anything positive either.

Kind of funny when you think about it....but...its either no one has produced any visual morphs to date or someone has and is not proud to associate the CRE name with their animal. Its gotta be one or the other. You cant even find an advertisement anywhere for hets produced from CRE hets.

With the reputation CRE has established for themselves I would say the paperwork they provide is about as useless as a poopy flavored lollipop. Because if you have to ask yourself just once, "do I have a het?" , you obviously shopped with the wrong person.

Just my .2 and with .23 more I'll have a whole quarter.

critical bill · Jul 3, 2006

To the person with the paperwork....

If possible...can you post a photo of the paperwork you received from CRE and any written guarantee that may have come along with your purchase?

Thanks...

santoury · Jul 3, 2006

Hello
I am sorry I don't have a digital cam to post a photo of the paperwork. The written paperwork includes 4 pages - page 1 is a photo of an albino ball. Page 2 is CRE's location info/contact info, with the clutch date (5/06) by Dave Hanners, and lists the names of the parents (AA1, to het B31, etc) genetics guaranteed for life, etc...
Third and Fourth are photos of my purchased animals, signed and titled 100 percent het albino.
To date, NOBODY has been able to say that their hets do NOT produce anything other than normals, except for that one guy who had one clutch. You guys seem pretty convinced that these are nothing but normals, but where is the proof?
I want to say that I'm not arguing with anyone here, just trying to get a straight answer from somebody who has actually, in fact, really proven that the CRE animals are not hets. Or maybe most of them were bought by private breeders, or hobbyists who don't even post on fauna. For all we know, there could be 5 people breeding morphs that originated from CRE hets, but they simply don't use fauna.
Let me remind you, then, of something else... If somebody bought a pair of CRE hets, and they produced morphs, why would that person post on here?
Once again (Sorry for rambling here) I'm only looking for a straight answer, not the "hype" of a bad name.

ravensgait · Jul 3, 2006

Jude I think someone pointed out to you the post that answers your question. You commented about others posting about getting sick or tick and mite infested obvious imports. What you don't seem to understand is that they were supposed to be Hets.

I sure hope yours prove out for you but I wouldn't hold my breath on that hope. Thing is that you can't even sell them as Hets, well unless you find someone else who hasn't seen all the threads about these guys. Good luck..Randy

Dennis Hultman · Jul 3, 2006

santoury said:
My animals are 06 babies. I don't check the BOI very frequently because I haven't had the need to. I noticed one about the CRE, and decided to take a closer look because I had *already* bought hets from them. What I don't get is, why the fuss between HCE, and CRE? Is one of them bad, and the other good? To the earlier post - Yeah, where are all the people who must have hets from them? There would have been more than 1-2 clutches by now. The paperwork provided by CRE with the photo of the albino father, etc. are pretty convincing.
So far, nobody has been able to say "No, these are not hets." I am sorry that some of you got ticky imports. Mine came in good and healthy, so that is not my concern. My concern is whether or not these truly are hets, or normals sold off as hets.
How many of you have CRE hets?
In a nutshell, please clarify the whole "HCE / CRE" issue, and of the many people who must have bought hets, how many have had clutches with 100 percent normals? Only one? a het to het breeding does not guarantee a homozygous animal. I also wonder, why is there even controversy that CRE is NOT selling hets as they say? Somebody said something about them producing hets for many years, without morphs being sold. From what I've seen, there are a lot of people with morphs, and they are never sold, or never advertised.
I am not refuting, or supporting CRE, just want to get more facts.
Thanks

What I don't get is, why the fuss between HCE, and CRE? Is one of them bad, and the other good?

They’re all one in the same. Read the threads about Digital Reptiles (yes they’re the same people as well).

The pictures of the breeders that they supplied, were proven to be recent purchases that couldn't be their breeders. That was in 2003.

Only one? a het to het breeding does not guarantee a homozygous animal.

It wasn’t a het to het breeding.

Jodi L Aherns said:
We breed a Pied male to one of our CRE 100% het pieds and hatched out 100% normale looking babys.We now are working with them on a refund for all of the CRE 100% het pieds.We have more eggs on the ground,but we are not expecting anything from them.We hope CRE will do the right thing.

Then there is this one.

craig kade said:
I just heard from a customer who bred one of the hets he got from me, originally from Bruce. She laid 7 eggs no pieds, it was a het to het breeding. Luckily this guy is understanding, and willing to breed the two females next year to a visible. I am sure I will be refunding that purchase though. Craig Kade

Dennis Hultman · Jul 3, 2006

I also wonder, why is there even controversy that CRE is NOT selling hets as they say?

The very first thread.
Start with this thread. It’s short. It’s the first report.
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10219

Here they are stealing pictures from other breeders, claiming them to be their own.
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=50930

Now why would anyone question them?

santoury · Jul 5, 2006

Hi again
Jude here.... I just wasted 1 1/2 hours reading the ENTIRE! thread, hoping for SOMETHING... I was looking for breeding results from CRE's hets... Only ONE person has said "no" The other was that guy who bought some from somebody else, who bred them once. That was how many years ago?
I am sure that CRE has sold XXXXX number of "hets" I am sure there are 20+ people with these hets by now (It's been 3+ years right?) Now, why isn't ANYBODY else talking about their actual breeding results? Somebody mentioned being embarrassed... That doesn't add up, because if there was HARD PROOF (from 10 breeders who produced normals) then it would definitely help all of us to see it here, not just personal speculation about reputations. In other words, I don't care about CRE's reputation or past. I am very happy with their business manner and the animals I got from them - All I care about is hearing about people who actually BREED these hets.

Let me ask once again... How many of you have actually purchased Dave Hanners 100 percent hets from CRE and bred them?
Let's start a poll.... How many people bought CRE's dave hanner's hets? How many eggs were in each clutch? And were all the babies normal? Did you breed them more than once? With the same results?

Also - those of you that say "No, they don't produce morphs" - PLEASE have had bred them to see for yourself, not word of mouth, or your opinion from other posts. As much as your opinion matters, it's not hard proof.

Thanks

ravensgait · Jul 5, 2006

Jude you come across as someone who bought something and is now worried that it isn't what they paid for. And now your trying to find anything to give you hope. Tell me would you have bought those animals if you read the threads here first?

It's not like the people who have made these negative post about CRE just decided to bash them for no reason, CRE has been dishonest from the get go. Why would anyone believe they are selling real Hets now when they didn't even have visuals a couple years ago when they were selling Hets.. Seems like a strange business practice to me IE ripping people off to buy Visuals so they can finally have real Hets to sell. Hey If yours prove out you can come here and tell us all about it. But even if yours prove out it doesn't excuse what CRE has done and tried to do to a lot of people. They are dishonest plain and simple, you did a deal with them and as I said I hope you got what you paid for but I do doubt you did. Good luck..Randy

critical bill · Jul 5, 2006

santoury said:
In other words, I don't care about CRE's reputation or past. I am very happy with their business manner and the animals I got from them - All I care about is hearing about people who actually BREED these hets.

If reputation isn't a problem for you would you be interested in some TSE hets?

Carolina Reptile Exchange, selling Pieds

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