Morph King Mojaves

[Cat_72]

Oh good lord Jim....you say you have no proof, no facts, whichever word you want to use. You can play with semantics all day, whatever you feel the need to do. I give you facts, you ignore them. I don't know how much more plainly I can say it.

I have to go to work now.

 

[doug-ferrin]

Why is their business model unsettling?

What if Joe moved to the same state as the collection - would that make a difference? Why would it? So MK is using a (relatively) new business model in the herp arena. One partner breeds the snakes, and the other conducts business. That doesn't seem so sinister. I have dealt with many reptile breeders. Some of them were great at breeding but their customer service wasn't so great. Companies like MK might be on to something.

Thank you,

Doug

 

[Chameleon Company]

Cat,
What is it with you ? Playing with facts ? Work will be your salvation tonight, for at least it will grant you a reprieve from the absurdity of your posts. What ? No more comments about me and the porn queen ? Besides absurd, it was so relevent How many different folks, who we hardly ever see post, need to come here and say WTF are you talking about? Walk away for a spell. Find out what you're really pissed at, and I hope you can work that out.

 

[Ed Clark]

JIm, I really dont see a need for you to constantly go after cat for having a different opionion then yours. It seems childish and it has taken you to yet another level of low. Maybe it should be illegal to type while under the influence.

 

[Chameleon Company]

Ed, with all due respect ....

Easy targets are sometimes fun here, and I at times enjoy a good day hunting. On a more serious note, some folks here think they can get a free pass to sit behind their keyboards and attack the integrity of others with some impugnity. I have never met Cat, and have no idea why she feels the need to belittle MLK. As for the "has-been whore" or however Cat referred to it and its relevence here ......... since she felt it worthy, I can only surmise that Cat is jealous that she too can't suck the chrome off a bumper? Like I said ... a good day hunting ! All the best Ed !

 

[hhmoore]

I have read most of the thread so if I missed something I apologize. I just have to throw in my useless .02 cents. I think that most of the BP morphs are over priced. Mojaves, Spiders etc; sorry they should all cost the same as a pastel. They are co-dom traits and there are just as many around as pastels. ;

The main difference is that pastels have been on the market for a longer period of time, which is why the price is so much lower.

With regard to everybody that is saying that this drop should have been expected, and is normal for dom/codom morphs - MKR's price drop was above and beyond the "normal" and "anticipated" reduction, which had already taken place...From and average advertised price of around $3000 last year (If my memory & the information I have seen posted can be trusted) to about $1500 this summer. It is that further reduction that has people upset, regardless of the reasons for their feelings. Did they have the right to do it? Absolutely.

Also, to toss another idea into the fire (I'm surprised that nobody else has commented on this, as I CANNOT be the only one that noticed). Regardless of any thoughts or knowledge of "backdoor pricing", what about the fact that MKR picked the price that would produce the sales volume they were looking for (I know that comments similar to this have been made, but read on). They didn't just arrive at $800 by guessing, or pulling a folded piece of paper out of a hat. Whether you want to call it "market research", "dry runs", "failed attempts", or whatever else, I witnessed a few higher priced (MKR mojave) auctions on ReptileAuctions that expired without a bid. Even at $1000, nobody bit...well, maybe not through the auction (they could have called directly). It wasn't til they dropped the starting price to $800 that they registered any bids. Maybe that was just the magic price to get people to make the purchase. Perhaps word got out that it was for real & there was nothing wrong with the animals. Whatever the reason, that set the price... and the rest is history.

 

[Cat_72]

What if Joe moved to the same state as the collection - would that make a difference? Why would it? So MK is using a (relatively) new business model in the herp arena. One partner breeds the snakes, and the other conducts business. That doesn't seem so sinister. I have dealt with many reptile breeders. Some of them were great at breeding but their customer service wasn't so great. Companies like MK might be on to something.

Thank you,

Doug

Doug, there is absolutely nothing wrong or sinister about Joe being in another state. In fact, from a business standpoint, it appears to be a good idea for them and is obviously working well. I was simply answering another poster's question about Joe and the time he spends enjoying his snakes.

And Harald, excellent post. I do know that the reserve set on those auctions was $2500, but I also know he did some behind-the-scenes wheeling and dealing with those who placed bids, but at the time, I'm not aware of any actually selling for $800, but that could very well be where he got his "bottom dollar" figure. I remember seeing it, but didn't put it all together until you brought it up.

And thank you all who chose to discuss this whole situation with myself and others rationally. I'll admit, I do see some things more clearly than when the whole thing started, but my feelings will not change about doing business personally with MKR. I just feel I have a lot better choices of good folks to buy from.

And last but not least, I apologize to Dennis Hultman, for not taking his wise advice sooner. The "ignore" feature DOES make life much more pleasant.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dennis Hultman
A gift, to all here.

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/profile.php?do=addlist&userlist=ignore&u=340

Afterwards, this

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chameleon Company
When you put me on Fauna "ignore", which doesn't exist BTW, do you just get a big blank when I post ?

Magically becomes

Quote:
Unread
08-01-2006, 09:09 PM
This message is hidden because Chameleon Company is on your ignore list.



On EVERY single post (past and future) by the user, site wide!
Your Welcome!

 

[hhmoore]

And Harald, excellent post. I do know that the reserve set on those auctions was $2500, but I also know he did some behind-the-scenes wheeling and dealing with those who placed bids, but at the time, I'm not aware of any actually selling for $800, but that could very well be where he got his "bottom dollar" figure. I remember seeing it, but didn't put it all together until you brought it up.

I don't frequent RA, but I watched those auctions because I was surprised by the price. When I first tuned in, there was a reserve, but I'm pretty sure that after the maybe first few at $1000, they were no reserve auctions. I could be wrong - I had no interest in actually purchasing them (or desire to have them), so it was more of a curiosity thing with me

 

[Cat_72]

I don't frequent RA, but I watched those auctions because I was surprised by the price. When I first tuned in, there was a reserve, but I'm pretty sure that after the maybe first few at $1000, they were no reserve auctions. I could be wrong - I had no interest in actually purchasing them (or desire to have them), so it was more of a curiosity thing with me

I honestly don't remember either, Harald....I thought he kept a reserve on them, but I wasn't watching them that closely either.

 

[kmurphy]

I have been reading this and the other post in the BOI no less, what's up with that? I am with the crowd that says they can, and should, charge what they want.

I read last month that there is a company that can produce perfect diamonds. They are indistinguishable from the real ones at a fraction of the cost. This will revolutionize the computer, stereo, health and other large industries that use chips. iPods will be able to hold 10,000 movies, not songs. De Beers and the other large diamond producers are trying to introduce legislation worldwide to ban these synthetics, just to protect their investment.

IMO those that think that MKR is being unethical are acting like De Beers, and are themselves being unethical.

 

[ravensgait]

Cat you made this comment earlier""I have seen typed by Joe or Wes's hand. Other than my phone conversations, it's all out there for those who want to see it to see.""

You also went after another poster because they didn't show proof! yet this whole thread is based on absolutely no proof at all, none nada. Yet people keep stating they did this they did that and the proof is out there if you look. Hey this is the BOI post the proof here if you have any at all. If not you are just gossiping and gee we know how that works.

So Cat why not post some proof if you have any if not might be an idea to say you have no proof and move on..Randy

 

[Chameleon Company]

Kevin,
I don't know that I have an answer for the "what's up with that" that you ask. Many here agree with your take on "pricing strategy". Some disagree, which is fine, for hopefully that is what generates good discussion. Unfortunately, a few of those that disagreed with the pricing strategy seemed to import all other kinds of negative conclusions and downright smearing of MLK. As Randy mentions, and as others have prior, "where's the proof" for all this hullabaloo. I believe that a few posters exhausted themselves trying to back-peddle, while others, such as Cathy, decided it was time to talk about porn-queens. I obliged, part in fun, and part to make a point as to the absurdity of it all. On the flip side, it served as a bit of a mini-debate about capitalism and entrepeneurism in our industry, between those that embrace it, and those that struggle with it. I want to thank Harald for taking the time to post his knowledge of the chronology of the logic process.

 

[High End Herps Inc]

I think it's safe to say...

I think I may feel justified in speaking for many members besides myself in saying that it is entirely annoying when people post in a thread to each other in an off topic capacity. To post in a thread and get off topic in a petty, childish, personal agenda with one another is not only unacceptable, but it creates an unnecessarily long thread about a whole lot of nothing. Some of us actually come here to read about the topic at hand.

So PLEASE, refrain from personally attacking one another and try to remain specifically on topic. ty


On Topic:
I personally feel that it is irrelevant what Joe's motivation was/is in selling his snakes at a lower rate. The most simple and basic facts are this: They are HIS snakes and this is a FREE country and he can sell HIS snakes for any price that HE chooses. He can sell black eyed leucistics for 10 bucks per pair SHIPPED if he chooses to.

Personally, I think it's terrific when the high end reptiles reach prices that folks with average incomes can afford them at. When push comes to shove it is the lower scale buyers that are the whole foundation for the entire herp industry. It all must eventually reach the pet trade. These are not limited numbered collectors items. They multiply.

Now, if stunning morph snakes never reproduced THEN they could be considered a collector commodity that not only can't decrease in value but could possibly increase in value due to its rarity and unique status.

But these DO reproduce and the numbers become greater and thus their rarity no longer applies and thus the demand for them lessens and in turn their value must drop. History repeats itself folks and before too long there will be 200 dollar albino tiger retics, 200 dollar pieds, 200 dollar white snakes. It isn't really a question of IF,.. but WHEN.

Fortunately for us high end breeders there is always something new to focus on. The new rarity replaces the old rarity and once again history repeats itself. For reference study the history of the albino burmese, the grayband kings and the leucistic rat snakes.

Just try to focus on loving this hobby and the snakes and enjoy the ride. The real wealth is in just being able to work with amazing animals.

Y'all take care now
David Beauchemin

 

[ravensgait]

I've asked for proof a few times in this thread and still haven't seen any. I do see people smearing a companies name here on the BOI and they seem unable to offer any proof! These same people have gone after people in other threads because they didn't offer any form of proof. Brings to mind that H word if you know what I mean.

I understand that some people now see that they wont make the money they thought they would and I also know that if they didn't own Ball morphs they would be very unlikely to be here posting the opinions that they have already written here.

I think most people who have paid more than a few hundred bucks for an animal have seen the price fall drastically a time or two. I've had it happen to me a few times but I bought the animals because I wanted them not so much to make money from them. Heck I'm thinking of spending a couple grand on animals that I'm pretty sure that in a year or so will be selling for half what I'll pay now. But again it's something I want to have so what the heck.

This recent drop in the ball market isn't unusual I've seen the price of other animals do the same thing. Just think of spending 40 grand on a horse that is now worth maybe 7 or 8 thousand. I could name a bunch of other animals ETC that have fallen severely in a short time, it happens.

Folks here are smearing MKR name and think nothing of the Fact that they are just handing out suppositions and no facts. They seem to be doing this for the simple reason that they wont make as much money on their investments as they thought they would and have to blame someone. Fine Blame who ever you like but I think it's really a poor showing on their parts to do so publicly without any proof to back up their accusations.

Above is just my opinion but maybe some should sit down and really think of what they are doing here and why?? Why are you slamming this company without one shread of proof to back up your claims?? Randy

 

[Lloyd Heilbrunn]

I don't know much about high end morphs, but it seems to me that their market consists of breeders selling to EACH OTHER and speculators looking for a QUICK TURNAROUND. There does not seem to be a push by the ultimate consumer/hobbiest to buy at high end prices.

Therefore, like other hobbies where speculators artificially drive up prices over consumer demand, for example comicbooks, a crash in value is inevitable until a price is reached where the average hobbiest will make a purchase......

 

[SPJ]

Joe and Wes are friends with Bobby Pruett and Tim Bowles.
That is all the proof I need that they will never get a sale from me.

MKR also ruined a very good forum. The became mods in the BP section and brought along their buddys Timmy and Bobby.

MKR and Snowballspythons (Tim Bowles) have partnered on deals. Anyone would would partner with Tim, has no ethics.

 

[ravensgait]

Steve and where did that info come from? People keep saying this and that here but? Maybe I missed something in this thread that backs up your statement? Randy

 

[LadyOhh]

I have to say that this thread is very intriguing.

I think I speak for myself and maybe Joe Shmoe out there when I say that:

I have a full time job.
I buy and breed and sell snakes.
I do not deny that I came into the market because of the idea that I would make some money on the side.

Now, I have no intention of ever purchasing a snake outside of my budget. (It does become tempting, indeed)

It does make me sad that the market is dropping, but unfortunatly, for those late in the game, this is how the system works. I accept that and will continue to produce what I enjoy until I have my dream snake:

Pastel axanthic piebald spider cinnamon mojave COMBO SUPER SNAKE!! (There are probably a few more I plan to throw in there, but hey.. It'll come with time)

It is a market, there is the economy to look at, and for me, the small time breeder, I accept it somewhat grudgingly, but hell, I have a job. I make money anyway! This is not my only means of funds, and it shouldn't be. I would love to make a trillion dollars off of something I enjoy, but that is not what is happening in this circumstance.

My expectations are low for my super success, so therefore, it is easy for me to see what I want, buy or not buy. It is my choice. And everyones.

I really love hearing both sides, but bottom line, there is nothing we can do as a market to change the fact that the prices have plummeted.
Complain or not, it is fact, set in stone, Wham-Bam-Thank You, Ma'am.

Do with it what you will.

I personally fully intend to continue on my never-ending quest for my Super Snake!

 

[SPJ]

Steve and where did that info come from? People keep saying this and that here but? Maybe I missed something in this thread that backs up your statement? Randy

It wasn't on Fauna.
Go to reptileforums.com and talk to Wes Harris, Bobby Pruett, and Tim Bowles.
Just don't say anything to upset them or Wes will edit your posts.

 

[SPJ]

I really don't care if MKR sells lucys for $50. That's their choice.
I just won't do business with them and I won't go to that other forum anymore. I don't care for it when my posts are edited and I will not give money to people who associate undesirables.

Is the price drop good for new people thinking of buying a morph? Sure. Is the way MKR does business and who they associate with good? Not IMO.

It's more than just a low price to make me do business with a company/person and I think that is the way a lot of other people feel too.

Low price is good for the buyer but look at the entire picture before you make a purchase.