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Morph King Mojaves

ravensgait said:
Cat you made this comment earlier""I have seen typed by Joe or Wes's hand. Other than my phone conversations, it's all out there for those who want to see it to see.""

You also went after another poster because they didn't show proof! yet this whole thread is based on absolutely no proof at all, none nada. Yet people keep stating they did this they did that and the proof is out there if you look. Hey this is the BOI post the proof here if you have any at all. If not you are just gossiping and gee we know how that works.

So Cat why not post some proof if you have any if not might be an idea to say you have no proof and move on..Randy
Click to expand...

Randy, proof of what are you looking for? And which poster did I go after for not having proof (proof of what?) I'd be glad to try to answer your questions if I knew exactly what you were asking. :)

Once again, for those who seem to keep missing my whole point here, I have no arguement that it is within their rights to do what they did, and from a business standpoint, it is probably a "good move". I just do not agree with their methods, nor their motives, because I see it as more than just a business. And as Steve said, I wil not associate myself more less give money to those who are buddies with known scum and scammers.

I have altered my plans for the coming years slightly, but my outcome will be the same in the end, and I will do so without having to purchase anything from MKR or those who support them. It may take me a little longer to get to where I want to be, or I may get there more quickly, depending on just how the market continues to fluctuate. But I will only to buy from people who I think are in it for the right reasons. And that is MY choice. ;)
 
Why do that? Keep them the going price and everyone will sell everything eventually.
Click to expand...

The going price is the price you sell them for.

If he sells them for $1 then the going price is $1.


There are some here who stated they INVESTED all sorts of money.
They now say they are upset at MKR because he is just after the money.
I must ask those people. Did you invest all sorts of money for a beautiful snake? or did you invest all sorts of money in hopes that you too can make money? business is business.

There are some here who say they will never buy from him because of the "company" he keeps or does business with.

All I can say is....GOOD !!....... leaves more snakes for me.
As long as he is not doing anything illegal, then all is good.
Business is business.

I currently do not have snakes (due to living conditions) but I do have a business. And what I learned is business is business. If I can't compete.....I move on to another product line.
 
Now both Steve and Cat say they associate with bad guys but where is the proof folks??? POST it Here where it belongs, no one should have to go looking for this proof you either have it and post it here or you don't have any, which is it? Cat Proof of what you keep claiming they have done what you claim their intentions were and are ETC ETC post some proof here of what you have said here.

Cat If you didn't have Ball Morphs you'd likely be replying the same way I am, asking for PROOF of accusations that have been made,,, plain and very very simple.Randy
 
Ritchie Luna said:
The going price is the price you sell them for.

If he sells them for $1 then the going price is $1.


There are some here who stated they INVESTED all sorts of money.
They now say they are upset at MKR because he is just after the money.
I must ask those people. Did you invest all sorts of money for a beautiful snake? or did you invest all sorts of money in hopes that you too can make money? business is business.

There are some here who say they will never buy from him because of the "company" he keeps or does business with.

All I can say is....GOOD !!....... leaves more snakes for me.
As long as he is not doing anything illegal, then all is good.
Business is business.

I currently do not have snakes (due to living conditions) but I do have a business. And what I learned is business is business. If I can't compete.....I move on to another product line.
Click to expand...

You have no problem buying from someone like this?
Price is not everything people!

It seems a lot of people here only care about the lowest price and do not care who gives it to them.

I have money invested in BP's. Yes, I would like to recoup some but that is not the main issue I have with MKR.

I do not care for their stunts (dropping prices tremendously low right before Daytona) and trying to make the quick buck just because they are the number 2 producer of BP's in the country and can dump a signifigant amount of morphs on the market at one time.
Judging by who they associate with, and the latest pricing episode, you can tell this is strictly for the money and screw everyone else.

If making a buck at any means is what you consider good business, then this is really a sad day.

It appears that no one cares if there are any ethics involved as long as you make money.

I would like to know how many on here would associate with Bowles and Pruett? Do their past dealings mean nothing as long as they can help you make a profit or help you save a buck on an animal?
 
Does anyone have accurate info on their current / recent dealings with bowles and pruett? I know there are aot of threads and reading pages on these 2, but are they duping people for fake hets etc?
Cheers
Paul
 
You have no problem buying from someone like this?
People like what? What did he do that was wrong?

It seems a lot of people here only care about the lowest price and do not care who gives it to them.

Actually I do care. I would never buy from bruce and his dead father harry. If the only thing MKR is guilty of is low prices..... then yeah I don't have a problem.


I do not care for their stunts (dropping prices tremendously low right before Daytona) and trying to make the quick buck just because they are the number 2 producer of BP's in the country and can dump a signifigant amount of morphs on the market at one time.

Business is Business. So far their only sin is low low prices.

Judging by who they associate with, and the latest pricing episode, you can tell this is strictly for the money and screw everyone else.

They are in it for their business..... they do not have to help you make money. it is their responsibility to feed their kids... they do not have to feed yours.


If making a buck at any means is what you consider good business, then this is really a sad day.

Making a buck at any means? You make it sound like they did something illegal and immoral. Lets review again what they did....... oh yeah, they lowered prices.

It appears that no one cares if there are any ethics involved as long as you make money.

Ethics? their only sin is that they lowered prices.





Ethics was mentioned.
stunts were mentioned.
making a buck at any means was mentioned.

yet the only arguement offered up is that they lowered prices.

think about what you are all arguing about.
You are crucifying MKR because they lowered their prices.

you can all argue all you want. you can all argue about who is right and who is wrong. but the bottom line is........ you're all arguing because he lowered his prices.

Just look at the thread.

he has no ethics...... why? because he lowered prices.
he was pulling stunts......why? because he lowered prices.
he just wants to make a quick buck...... well you want to make mroe than a buck.
he is scum........why? because he lowered prices.


anyone out there have any real arguement to bring up besides the low low prices?
 
Steve again for the?? hell I don't remember how many times I and others have asked for some proof in this thread. Like I said before if you didn't own Ball morphs I wonder if you'd be posting in this thread.

If this were a thread about some other critter I wonder if you Cat and the others would be here asking for proof of these accusations? Randy
 
Yeah,
I read someone saying she can put the facts six inches from a guys nose and he would not see it.

she goes on to say that she can staple it to his forehead and he still would not see it.

I guess she thinks that just because she said it....then it is fact
 
I guess she thinks that just because she said it....then it is fact
Click to expand...
You noticed that too! :rofl:

Seems to have been quite a bit of jealousy motivation by those who have been naysayers in this thread. Is posting here going to warn the world of the "true MKR", those wascally wabbits ? Ding their business ? Or maybe if we can save one buyer from spending their money with MKR, and maybe even be so stupid so as to spend $500 more elsewhere, some sort of a "TLC" surcharge, then the world is a better place?
 
I would have to say i agree anyone can sell there product for whatever they want. If they have 20 lessers to sell and they put them up for $2500, and sold all of them in 2 days, then it was probably too cheap, and they will not have product to sell in the month leading up to next hatchling season. Might not be the best business decision, but they took the lions share of prospective customers for lessers, so maybe they do know what they are doing, or maybe they screwed up and wont have animals to sell in decemeber before christmas. Absolutely does not make them a bad person or a shady dealer. I have yet to hear someone have bad service or bad animals come from them. It is free enterprise. They are business men. They are doing what is right for there business in there eyes. Really the ball python market is still in its infancy and it is going through growing pains--everything will sort itself out. I think instead of complaining about prices being too low, we should focus more on promoting ball pythons in general to new customers. Get them interested. The more people that get into balls-the better it will be for everyone. So when i sell a pastel in my store for $300 or an adult male for $500, you know what happens, 3 or 4 weeks later that customer comes back in and starts inquiring about yellowbellies or albinos or mojaves or spiders. Everybody is looking at all the prices dropping like it is a bad thing. It is the exact opposite. It is opening up doors to new customers who could not even think about affording a mojave or a pastel last year. They are showing those animals to friends who become interested in them and then they are researching getting into the balls, and so on and so on. For so many years people were turned off to balls because they were poor feeders and hard to breed. Who started that propaganda? They are great feeders-easy to maintain and a cake walk to breed. Years and years ago the chondro breeding circle was very cut throat. Many people were misinformed by other breeders how to properly incubate eggs, so there were very few people actually producing them. Now that is horrible ethics. The ball market is just taking a natural course. Ben siegel
 
Well said Ben and Ritchie. I still can't believe this has gotten to page 50 million over someone putting their prices low. I've been wanting to get a pair of Pied Balls for a long time now. The look so darn interesting but they also have the potential to return your intial buy in and if you're lucky you'll make a few bucks - all of which will probably end up going to Tony Nicoli anyways, hahaha. If someone offered me a Pied for $800 or $1000 and the seller had a good rep EXCEPT that they pissed people off because they have the ability to sell their animals cheaper than what the closet breeders would like.... BWWWHAHAHAHAHA, hell yeah I'm buying the animal!!!

This is America baby and their ain't nothing wrong in some good old fashioned competition. I look at the Ball Python market as the stock market of the late 90's. Speculation everywhere, everyone is looking for the payout and there is trouble just around the corner people people have ran up their credit, lived off of Ramen and mortgaged their house to buy in. Morph King is just making it up on volume, don't hate on that. If you can't take a slight market correction then you need to stop living outside your means, plain and simple. Besides, 10k, 15k, 25k for a snake. FOR A SNAKE. Please, someone kick a leg out from under that BS table....

Matt Jillson
 
I almost never participate in these threads (how many posts on this one have been prefaced that way?) but I have to throw in my observations:

Regarding the mud-slinging regarding a potential association of MKR with some known slimeballs: People keep requesting proof, and I have heard it mentioned a couple times that the proof is in the fact that aforementioned slimeballs claimed this association themselves. Another person claimed that MKR himself had stated that his only association was through a business deal. Is it not possible that perhaps the rather unsavory characters in question are exaggerating said association with MKR (in other words, LYING, as they are prone to do) in order to make it look like they have ties with a big, well-known breeder?

It seems pretty solidly inevitable (as has been said over and over again) that prices of ball python morphs are going to drop, and in some cases, drop significantly. The speed of the drop seems particularly inevitable with those dominant/incomplete dominant morphs that can be produced in quantity simply by breeding one male to three or four or maybe more females. MKR perhaps dropped their prices prematurely, but the drop was bound to happen regardless. Yes, it must be downright awful for someone who has put a lot of time and effort into raising and breeding these animals to see the prices drop significantly -- but that's the nature of investment. As Ben Siegal pointed out, slashing prices could well have backfired -- if their prices were too low (too far below what the market was suggesting), the animals would have been snapped up in a week and anyone else wanting the same type of morph would have had to pay more "regular" market prices. The fact that other vendors had to subsequently drop their prices to compete suggests, to me, that that is the direction in which the market is tending to go.

It seems as if MKR is being used as a scapegoat here due to their aggressive pricing by those who are frustrated by the turn of the market. I think that's too bad, especially given that I have not seen one person on here speak up and claim to have recieved a sick or sub-par snake from their facility. They seem to be satisfying their customers and doing well for themselves, and ultimately, that's the goal of any business. As long as the animals also seem healthy and happy, this really can't be construed as unethical IMO.

I also tend to agree that the downturn in prices isn't inherently a bad thing. So long as the market doesn't "crash" -- so long as everybody keeping ball pythons doesn't suddenly decide to sell at once, with no buyers in sight -- I think the lower prices will attract even more keepers into the market who wouldn't have been able to afford, or wanted to pay, the old prices. Remember, a well-cared-for animal (one that hasn't been pushed to breed too early in the hopes of making a quick buck -- because it's really NOT about making a quick buck, right?) could go on to breed several litters. Even if it takes longer, a return and even a profit is quite possible, even with a $2000 snake whose offspring are suddenly worth $500. It may not be the "get rich quick" or even "recoup your investment quick" scheme that it seems some breeders are promising, but it is at least enough for those small-time breeders to have an enjoyable hobby that can actually support itself -- and really, how many hobbys do that?
 
Nirvana said:
Remember, a well-cared-for animal (one that hasn't been pushed to breed too early in the hopes of making a quick buck -- because it's really NOT about making a quick buck, right?) could go on to breed several litters.
Click to expand...

Quoted from Wes Harris of MKR on Reptile Forums:
I had put one of our Xanthic Albino males in with this female over night just to see. I saw no copulation and she was only about 1000 grams so I wrote her off later in the season she really started eating well so I ran her with a Super and a Pied!

Link:http://www.reptileforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=34754&page=3 (post number 45 on this thread)

Not pushed to breed to early....hmmm.....trying to breed a female at 1000 grams? I was always under the impression that ethical breeders didn't try to breed them until they were at least approaching 1500-1600 grams. Dang. One of those silly "fact" things.

You all can read the rest of what Wes hasn't edited out yet on that forum, all about how much money Snowballs has spent with MKR, and the business they've done together...some of it is still left there. If anyone had bothered to look there when Steve first told you where to look for some of the information, you probably would have seen more, lol. What has now already been edited out, I can't do anything about. What I was told in my phone conversations with Joe, well....they are what they are.

No one said they can't take a "slight market correction" (lol) and who here has said they bought any $10,000 snakes? Eating Ramen noodles :ack2: ? Mortgaged the house, for goodness sakes?? LOL, who's slinging factless crap now?

Anyway....Ben's post was excellent, and explained well some of the things that have been stated earlier in the thread about the pricing, and I that already stated many posts back that it made some sense to me, and even somewhat agreed. Some of you must have chosen to skip over that part, lol. Regardless, I you won't see me making any future purchases from MKR. If you see no problem with them, then by all means, shop away. :) I just have different standards on who I will buy from or sell to, I guess.
 
So Wes shares an experience about trying to breed a 1000 gram animal. Was he bragging? Or maybe just putting out the experience for others to learn from. And the suffering was ?

hmmm.....trying to breed a female at 1000 grams? I was always under the impression that ethical breeders didn't try to breed them until they were at least approaching 1500-1600 grams.
Click to expand...

So, once again, they are unethical because you take issue with them !! :rofl: Of course, we are all entitled to our opinions. And God bless those different standards !
 
How about if the word responsible was used to replace the "e" word.

A responsible breeder would not attempt to breed a 1000 gram female BP.
 
OK, so instead of insinuating that they are "unethical", we just settle on "irresponsible"? Are you folks smoking crack? Heck, if you dig deep enough, maybe you will find that Wes rolled through a stop sign once too !
 
Here is my problem with this...

They brag about having 50 or 30 of each, and the only reason they are having to lower the price is BECAUSE they have so many of each. Whose fault is that? THEIRS! Do not produce so %$##ing many of the same morph in one year, and you will not have to bottom out the price so YOU can sell all the snakes YOU produced. I personally will be producing crosses with my Co Doms, and in the process, will produce some of the acutal Co Dom animal, and some crosses, but I will not take one male Mojave to as many normal females as I can, and then one male Pastel to as many normals as I can, and then another male Mojave to as many....I will produce crosses, and the animals that come from making the crosses, but in this way, I will not be mass producing one Morph. This price drop really made me put my wallet away though, seriously, there is no way I can spend any amount on any Co Dom now when I think that the price will be one tenth of what I paid for it a year later. They ruined it for others. I do not think the other big breeders would have dumped their animals, though I have heard a rumor that the "sale" was to "get back" at certain breeders. Great, get back at one person by screwing everyone else. If I still did not get a great deal of joy from seeing the heads poking out of the egg, I would say F this, and spend my time and money on a sailboat or jet ski or something else. This has really put a damper on things for me...

Dave
 
Sorry to hear about what happened Dave.

You have produced some awesome animals and beautiful crosses.

I wish you the best.
 
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