Info Thomas Dorn - aeterrabyte

[RichsBallPythons]

Do you keep other spider gene balls? And the snake was fine for the first 15 days? Little to no wobble can turn to a bad wobble very quickly, and can never be considered as a legitimate argument. Finally, even though both parents carry the spider gene, only one transfers to the baby, thus no super version. Am I correct on that?

The gene is shared, the male and female give a chromosome to the baby that is expressed in one way or another. Think of humans, you get lil from each parent, same as snakes.

 

[Charlotte&Loki]

Why is the first video also in the 2nd video?

 

[mikew1234]

I know genetics lol. I'm saying being a dominant trait (spider) it would not give a double head wobble?

 

[RichsBallPythons]

No, the head wobble being minimal to train wreck is total random. You can produce nice minimal wobbling spiders from train wrecks and vice verse.

 

[mikew1234]

I know you said spider x spider is fine but maybe this is it.

So this stands incorrect, yes?

 

[RichsBallPythons]

So this stands incorrect, yes?

Yes its incorrect, as ive done spider x bee and spider x spider and all babies thrived and are still doing fine with their new owners.

 

[chadharper]

But should the killerbee have the wobble considering the genetics of the parents?

 

[mikew1234]

Yes, it has the spider gene in it. The wobble is a side effect of the gene. Ive bred spider to spider too, and had the same results. The wobble is always with the spider gene, but depends on the animal much more than the genetics behind it.

 

[RichsBallPythons]

Yes is should still have it. If spider is present in any morph it will have a wobble no matter what.

 

[Neon]

Not sure if this has been asked yet or not (I've read all twenty-one pages and, frankly, I need a drink from all the redundancy):
In the video, around the 25 second mark, you point out your thermometer and then (I assume) stand back up to turn around. As you're standing up it looks like there are a few more racks directly ahead - are these the racks in which you keep the rest of your collection?

Just as everyone is quick to jump on you (the buyer) being the problem, I think you're a little quick to be determined that it is IBD. I don't think anyone here can say they know for sure what it is until you receive a vet report back, including yourself. From one novice breeder to another (and yes, two years is still qualified as a novice; I've been in this hobby for 7 years and I still consider myself a no0b), I wouldn't rule out that the issue could in fact have something to do with your husbandry practices. I think you've convinced yourself since it's a new addition and the other new snakes have been fine that it could not possibly be you - one thing I have learned through experience is to never turn a blind eye to ANY possibility: you're only doing yourself and your collection a disservice by ruling out a potential cause and solution.

Take it with a grain of salt but do yourself and all your other reptiles a favor and explore every possible cause; better to have found nothing than to have ignored something that could harm more than just one snake.

 

[RichsBallPythons]

Thats helpful. Lets see how she is tomorrow and what the vet says. Im trying to think what shock she went though? If that was the case wouldn't some of the other balls on the same rack have similar problems? I have some vanillas in an older rack with an on off thermostat. The probe fell out and it got really got. Like to 120. They are absolutely fine right now. Thats why I'm saying a small disrupting in husbandry is not going to cause a severe issue. It's got to be a developmental problem.

Totally missed this post, Some may not be affected by rapid heat spikes as some will move off the heat and some dont.

Last year some may remember me posting, i had a Sentec rack where a probe came lose just enough to cause the rack to spike at a constant 110F temp for over 24 hours. All the snakes BUT one moved off the heat source. She was also gravid which is why she didnt move, she was a lil lethargic but showed no signs or damage.

The killerbee could of been one that stayed on the heat and was susceptible to it being hatchling

 

[aeterrabyte]

Totally missed this post, Some may not be affected by rapid heat spikes as some will move off the heat and some dont.

Last year some may remember me posting, i had a Sentec rack where a probe came lose just enough to cause the rack to spike at a constant 110F temp for over 24 hours. All the snakes BUT one moved off the heat source. She was also gravid which is why she didnt move, she was a lil lethargic but showed no signs or damage.

The killerbee could of been one that stayed on the heat and was susceptible to it being hatchling

Na this is a separate rack system. The killer bee was on the herpstat the temp never changed. What can I do to get my first time males breeding this year. I have a bunch of capable females but my males don't seem interested.

 

[hhmoore]

What can I do to get my first time males breeding this year. I have a bunch of capable females but my males don't seem interested.

That question belongs in a discussion area. Please don't utilize the BOI for general discussion topics.

 

[the_yellow_pony]

I don't even know what to comment on...where to start.

I am going to hit on at least 1 thing that has been hit on 40 times so far in this thread.

IT IS NOT IBD.

Have you ever seen it in person? Anyone who has ever seen IBD 9 times out of 10 is gunshy about even typing IBD let alone accusing someone of it.

Your snake would have been dead well before the 2 week mark if it had IBD.

I agree with the general consensus I have seen here which points to something Thomas did caused this.

The temp in the box is a moot point if the animal was fine for ~2 weeks after receiving it.

The fact that these symptoms popped up over night indicates an environmental factor to me. Whether it be a malfunctioning thermostat, a pesticide, etc.

Have you ever seen Ethylene glycol poisoning in a cat or dog? If they live, typically they exhibit extreme neurological issues after exposure. Chemicals do weird things.

I haven't seen anyone ask this yet and I am incredibly suspicious of Thomas's quarantine practices after trying to make sense of half the posts in this thread.

Since you have obviously spent some time googling IBD and mites, when you panicked and thought IBD, did you treat for mites? If so with what and how?

Just another venue for coming into contact with something toxic that should be explored.

IF nothing husbandry /stress related caused this, and I have seen it said once before, what is the source of your feeders?

To touch on the vet; just because they will see herps doesn't make them a herp vet. The vet you mention, specifically is a bird hospital and as mentioned before has no mention of herps on their site.

After seeing all the responses in the thread, all 22 pages, I can say with confidence that I feel the seller has reason to classify this as an EXTREME CASE and rule the ToS null and void.

 

[Lucille]

ToS

Looking forward, not only for this seller but for all of us, TOS and warranties can sometimes benefit from being more specific. This seller has an excellent reputation. The buyer on the other hand seems to have some misconceptions as to what constitutes good husbandry.

Many people in the industry have simply gone with a LAG. For those who extend a warranty for longer than arrival, perhaps it would be a good policy to spell out just what the warranty covers.

Include some language that inactivates the warranty if the buyer is negligent, and then spell out what that sort of negligence might consist of.

I think there are two entirely different issues here: a buyer who received an apparently healthy snake, which he was initially happy with and which was eating on its own; and an exploration of the responsibilities of a seller with a generous extended warranty that did not within the agreement apportion risk because the seller did not expect to have to deal with a buyer like this.

Not for here, but for the future: Put your guarantees in writing and be explicit about the coverage, and the responsibilities of both parties.

 

[Lucille]

Here is a warranty (for a car). Check out how particular it is, and how it apportions responsibility:
http://www.ford.com/resources/ford/general/pdf/2012Warranty.pdf

 

[PlatinumRosePythons]

Spent an hour reading all 22 pages of this. Wow. Just wow.

First off, Thomas, you are a hypocrit. You say that the adults need to act like adults, yet you are calling everyone on this forum a moron simply because they dont agree with you. Real mature.

Second, you say this snake fed the the day before you force fed her water. The snake you show in the video looks like it would be unable to feed. Therefore, my guess would be that you screwed up on the force feeding and hurt her or shoved the water down the wrong tube. IF she was dehydrated, which I believe she wasnt (i'll get to that in a sec), a good soaking and/or misting would do the trick. There was no reason to force feed water. Force feeding anything, food or water, can be risky. Especially with hatchlings.

Third, you say she passed a urate a minute after you force fed the water. This proves she wasnt dehydrated. Water takes more than a minute to pass through her system.

Fourth, you say you've been in ball pythons for two years. That's great, but it doesnt make you an expert! There are people on here that have been in it for 20yrs. You can only learn so much off the internet. I suggest you change your attitude and take your own advice, act like an adult and stop whining and calling names when someone dares have a different opinion.

Fifth, you say:

Sunday I went to check on her and she was twisted up and looked very dehydrated.

Have you ever had a spider morph before? That 'twisted up' thing was probably just her being a spider. I have a spider (low wobble) and they are overall VERY different from your average ball python.

Sixth, there is nothing dangerous about breeding spider x spider. You seriously showed your ignorance there. Before I got my spider I spent a good week researching them. Their behaviour, characteristics, genetics, etc.. There has been no proof that breeding spider x spider is lethal.

Seventh, that more than likely isnt IBD. If it was she and half your collection would be dead by now.

In conclusion, I feel you are the one that messed up that poor snake by force feeding her water. Either you hurt her or shoved the water down the wrong tube but that's what I think. If I was the seller I would tell you that you're outta luck, negligence isnt covered. Hopefully that poor snake can be helped.

 

[Slyther83]

It sounds like the buyer needs to roll back his collection to earthworms and get some more experience before moving onto vertebrates.

 

[chadharper]

It sounds like the buyer needs to roll back his collection to earthworms and get some more experience before moving onto vertebrates.

That is some funny chit.

 

[tim brophy]

I wonder if you damaged its spinal column when you restrained it to tube water into its mouth.